Party Incentivization

TheWolfofGar

Hi,

I wanted to discuss AoC's incentivization for partying up in open world play. As well as get a feel for other peoples perspectives on how they think the game should reward/encourage group play without necessarily punishing solo play. With that in mind I want to clarify what I mean I think the game does already have a good number of encounters/events which make it beneficial/rewarding for you to already have people with you. eg. Caravans if you happen to have a caravan spawn by you and some friends you may make the decision to have some fun playing bandit today. However this assumes you and your friends are already hanging out together in a region and not all off doing your own thing.

I think it's fair to say that in general most mmo's tend to have you and your friends run along side each other for a few days/weeks while you rush through the new content/quests then you eventually spread out and it becomes more of an open world semi-solo adventure with grouping up only occuring for raids, dungeons or specific events.

I personally think AoC should work in systems where staying together open world is fun and rewarding once you've run through the usual gambit of quests. Some general ideas

• Base xp buff something like 2% for <8 to 5% for full 8 man party
• Increased drop probabilities or chance of multidrop from mobs as well as when gathering. for example I think having a full 8 man party out gathering in the woods together having a base gather speed / efficiency /reward buff should all be considered like every 5th tree gives double logs or something
  - alternately the chance for a multidrop could increase with the number of people spec'ed into a given profession so when you run into people gathering in the woods you want to party up because the rewards get better for everyone. eg:

• 1 - 0%
• 2 - 1%
• 3 - 2.5%
• 4 - 4.5%
• 5 - 7%
• 6 - 10%
• 7 - 13.5%
• 8 - 17.5%

• Power leveling [mentor] buff, if you are in a party with someone who has a class overlap with you then perhaps the lower level player gets a 20% xp buff and the higher level gets a 5% as a pseudo Mentor/Trainee relationship.
  - this would encourage rp mentorship you could offer to help power level new players for a modest fee, or for incentives tied to joining your guild as well as facilitate knowledge transfer from experienced players to new ones when out in the open world.
• Perhaps when a party of players farms a given mob there's a chance for a rare spawn that is scaled stronger with better rewards. eg. A "Dire Wolf Alpha" wont spawn unless a 8-man party kills 25 grey wolves, they don't all need to huge rewards either just proportional to the challenge/investment just something that breaks up the monotony to make killing mobs to level more exciting/fun and engaging then it would be solo.
• Perhaps parties have a base increased effect to node development that way working together as a community is literally greater than the sum of it's parts.
• other suggestions?

There will be content that pulls people apart due to differing interests and I do believe that is a good thing, however I think there should be incentives and rewards to actively push people back together. That way when a caravan does spawn in the vicinity, or some event gets triggered the likelihood of you already having people on hand to participate is higher, rather than wanting to participate but all your friends are a 20+ min run away.

Ludullu

I come from the land that required you to party up, so I just want the same requirement here. You want some new piece of gear? You gotta get a party going and go farm that dungeon/boss/money in order to get that gear.

Though that kind of requirement mainly comes from difficulty mobs that you gotta fight for weeks on end or from bosses that you can only defeat in a raid (which would probably have a long respawn), so it's either grinding, which Intrepid don't want, or the same raids as most other games, where anything outside of them is just solo gameplay. And I personally don't know what Intrepid can provide outside of those two things that would make people stay together.

Grinding sessions in L2 felt awesome because you'd just be chilling with da bois, pvping randos who came for your grinding location and just talking shit for several hours every evening. But w/o said grinding, I don't see what other content could hold the same attention for the same period of time, while also being equally engaging for everyone in the party.

George_Black

I also come from an mmo in which without a party you cant do shit. That's the incentive.
Your suggestions would make the game very easy.

I think you come from mmos in which all you do is play fetch for NPCs, be it quests or dailies (and their vendors) and as such everybody runs around, doing their easy gameplay routine, without a reason to get together.

In AoC if you dont group up you wont go past lv15 or so, nor will you be able to participate in the economy. There is no group finder, nor many teleports, which means that you cant just appear at your point of interest. And you wont by pass the mobs to get there.

Grouping will be a thing. I only agree with a 3-5% bonus xp for a full party. Nothing else is needed. Especially not loot chance boosts.

TheWolfofGar

NiKr wrote: »

I come from the land that required you to party up, so I just want the same requirement here...

Though that kind of requirement mainly comes from difficulty mobs that you gotta fight for weeks on end or from bosses that you can only defeat in a raid (which would probably have a long respawn), so it's either grinding, which Intrepid don't want, or the same raids as most other games, where anything outside of them is just solo gameplay. And I personally don't know what Intrepid can provide outside of those two things that would make people stay together.


Grinding sessions in L2 felt awesome because you'd just be chilling with da bois, pvping randos who came for your grinding location and just talking shit for several hours every evening. But w/o said grinding, I don't see what other content could hold the same attention for the same period of time, while also being equally engaging for everyone in the party.

Yeah I get what you mean, it's why I'm spitballing ideas as the open world seems to be a large part of the game, which is why things like triggering rare spawns, or perhaps the gathering boon (obviously the % on all the buffs I've listed are just for example) rather than multidrops it could be a quality thing where if you are partied with a master woodcutter the quality of your work goes up or something to that effect. There will be the general safety in numbers aspect where you don't want to go wood cutting alone due to the risk of pvp, however will that be enough for your friends to want to go with you afterall watching people cut trees isn't exactly exciting for the spectator. I'm just like you unsure if that will be enough to drive people together which is why the potential for such systems is interesting me atm.

TheWolfofGar

George_Black wrote: »

I also come from an mmo in which without a party you cant do shit. That's the incentive.
Your suggestions would make the game very easy.

I think you come from mmos in which all you do is play fetch for NPCs, be it quests or dailies (and their vendors) and as such everybody runs around, doing their easy gameplay routine, without a reason to get together.

In AoC if you dont group up you wont go past lv15 or so, nor will you be able to participate in the economy. There is no group finder, nor many teleports, which means that you cant just appear at your point of interest. And you wont by pass the mobs to get there.

Grouping will be a thing. I only agree with a 3-5% bonus xp for a full party. Nothing else is needed. Especially not loot chance boosts.

I think you misunderstand what my suggestions are emphasized around, I like the lack of group finder and teleportation, the inability to just appear at your poi is partly why I started thinking about this, with my caravan comment, players have a variety of interests and you wont necessarily always have someone who wants to do what your doing atm but would with sufficient motivation, like rare mob spawning. General open world activities that take up the time between dungeons. With respect to the bonuses making the game too easy, I disagree you can only spec into 1 artisan class and then ~2 of the underlying professions, for the woodcutting buff you would need specifically gathering artisans who've chosen woodcutting. which you may potentially only know 2/4 because you handle that for your guild. but that said my % are incredibly generous so obviously they can be scaled back it's more for example than actual practice. In addition it could make groups of wood gatherers soft targets as given the buff you may anticipate them to have more loot than one or two randoms in the wood.

Assuming you are correct and it's completely infeasible to solo then great that's the content encouraging you party up on the day to day which is what I was speculating the game may need. just with the carrot instead of the stick.

akabear

NiKr wrote: »

I come from the land that required you to party up, so I just want the same requirement here. You want some new piece of gear? You gotta get a party going and go farm that dungeon/boss/money in order to get that gear.

Though that kind of requirement mainly comes from difficulty mobs that you gotta fight for weeks on end or from bosses that you can only defeat in a raid (which would probably have a long respawn), so it's either grinding, which Intrepid don't want, or the same raids as most other games, where anything outside of them is just solo gameplay. And I personally don't know what Intrepid can provide outside of those two things that would make people stay together.

Grinding sessions in L2 felt awesome because you'd just be chilling with da bois, pvping randos who came for your grinding location and just talking shit for several hours every evening. But w/o said grinding, I don't see what other content could hold the same attention for the same period of time, while also being equally engaging for everyone in the party.

I agree.. Looking back I could not have done the crazy hours of grinding had it not been for the group voice communication that just passed the hours! Solo was also nice for a chill from time to time but never felt the grind for 0.2% per hour XP when grouped up!

Warth

I agree with some of the criticism here.
Partyplay shouldnt be encouraged through some arbitrary buffs, if thats necessary, then the Development team failed already.

Partyplay should be encouraged through systems and designs, that make partyplay highly beneficial.

TheWolfofGar

Warth wrote: »

Partyplay should be encouraged through systems and designs, that make partyplay highly beneficial.

I see what you mean, I agree there should be plenty of reasons to party up outside an arbitrary buff, dungeons/raids/world pvp other events, as well as quest design, things like parallel progression and difficult side quests requiring a minimum of 2+ people. each of these designs imo don' t make partyplay highly beneficial instead they make soloplay infeasible. you want to run the dungeon then party up because you will die solo. (I agree you should die solo but simply not dying isn't a boon)

What other systems or designs do you think should be implemented?

TheWolfofGar

based on other discussion on this from the few I spitballed prior I think have the most promise to be widely accepted are/ I think would make the most sense.
- rare mob spawns / altered mob mechanics (eg chain pulling you attack one mob and surrounding mobs aggro as well)
- slight xp buff for party and/or a type of mentor buff that you can place on people lower level than you with the same class spec while in a party
- slight increase to node progress when a party completes the same node quests

A new consideration
scrapping the chance at multidrop
what if instead there were rare/legendary resources that took more than 1 person to successfully gather/gather efficiently? Would that interest people? eg, instead of a hatchet a rare large old growth requires a 2-man saw to cut down/cut down in a reasonable time, which requires at least one of the 2 to be a Gatherer AC - lumberjack prof (or perhaps both)

there is already the constraint of only attaining t3-4 for non mastered professions but systems for teams of gatherers to work together/ feel like they are working together like 2-man saws or a fisher and spear/netter combo for large ocean fish is more what I was trying to capture with the multidrop chance but this new suggestion I think may actually suit that better.

DeviLzFury_Gaming

I think there is alot in the game that promotes Party play. To which everyone would see the benefits to being with a group. I think if the Devs do it right, we the players should see that group play is favorable over solo. I think AoC is doing a good job of making content for all types of party play, caravans, raids, ocean content, pvp, castles, politics, etc. All lean to group play and forming group or joining. I dont think we need to much "incentive" on forming these groups as it should just be a natural thing to do in an MMO, but i do see the value in adding some limited benefits.

That being said there is a place for some solo play too such as freeholds, ECO, crafting and such. But i think they are leaning and Deving to provide and promote group play over solo.

Another key is how "groups" such as guilds or formed groups paint there value added into the content that is being taken on or looking to be taken on.

Ludullu

TheWolfofGar wrote: »

what if instead there were rare/legendary resources that took more than 1 person to successfully gather/gather efficiently? Would that interest people? eg, instead of a hatchet a rare large old growth requires a 2-man saw to cut down/cut down in a reasonable time, which requires at least one of the 2 to be a Gatherer AC - lumberjack prof (or perhaps both)

there is already the constraint of only attaining t3-4 for non mastered professions but systems for teams of gatherers to work together/ feel like they are working together like 2-man saws or a fisher and spear/netter combo for large ocean fish is more what I was trying to capture with the multidrop chance but this new suggestion I think may actually suit that better.

I'd personally be interested in that kind of heavy-handed design. Especially if you have a few super rare resources that can only be acquired by several top tier gatherers working together. You'd need to either work with the enemy or help your other guildmates as much as you can to push them towards the top lvl of progression. Both of which are quite sociable activities and both of which would require parties to defend (cause others would most likely want to stop you from acquiring said resource).

Dolyem

Going to have to say the only incentive an MMO should need is the requirement of a party to efficiently do the content. Screw all of the bonuses. You party up because you want to play with others or because you can't do the content alone.

TheWolfofGar

NiKr wrote: »

I'd personally be interested in that kind of heavy-handed design. Especially if you have a few super rare resources that can only be acquired by several top tier gatherers working together. You'd need to either work with the enemy or help your other guildmates as much as you can to push them towards the top lvl of progression. Both of which are quite sociable activities and both of which would require parties to defend (cause others would most likely want to stop you from acquiring said resource).

exactly what I was thinking especially with Shipbuilding being it's own profession old historical ships the keel would typically be constructed of the largest available timber to minimize the need for many joints weakening the structure, perhaps a few of these trees only spawn/reach full size once every "winter" and it's a core component for the best tiers ships, so there could be an element of needing to ensure people don't harvest the resource early when it's undersized or needing to party up with a rival faction to share the resource if you don't have enough lumberjacks in your guild and have people provide protection so you don't get pvp'd during the gathering process. Heavy handed yes but also realistic imagine some fool with a little axe trying to cut down a giant sequoia alone


for any realism that would/should take ages without a team

Warth

Sure you can play solo.
You just might not be able to do certain things solo or do them very efficiently.

Im okay with that. Not all the content needs to be able to solo players nor do they need to be competitive.