I was not aware that humans have an ancestral instinct of cutting trees.
That's why Minecraft is so popular! I always plant a new tree when I cut one down in that game.
September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
HinotoriMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I don't want every tree harvestable, especially if there's a mouse over visual queue for chopping wood. Doubly so with open world combat.
I also feel it'll just lead to AFK gameplay with characters standing where trees grow in proximity with a paperweight bird hitting the keybind to chop wood.
For me, New World raised the bar on all gathering. It was pentiful, diverse and meaningful.
So hard to go to a destination without stopping to grab something.
Felling an area of trees; the sounds, the feeling when chopping, the falling of the tree, the clearings and empty areas waiting to respawn.. great job..
Can only hope
new world had it right except for one thing. The quantities require for crafting and the quantities gained from gathering. I am saying this from the beta and first month of the game so if its changed oh well. But during that time period Star metal, the t4 metal ore was basically worthless because of how much there was, while iron, the t1 metal, was the cash cow due it its low quantity and exceedingly large need for crafting *any* metal item.
Basically, if they took that system and made the low tier easily gathered in large quantities and scaled up the difficulty and rarity as the tiers get higher, the economy would work itself out.
True and the later game this lack of certain materials became even more apparent making even the most basic crafting difficult.
What was interesting, bots kept the basic resources in abundance... having always been anti bots there was an interesting argument for NW to allow them in game to keep the economy going..
But as for Ashes, I would hope that the analytics they monitor of the game prosperity, means they tweak some of the gatherable spawns and locations to keep it challenging and interesting but within reason "balanced". (not broken)
That aside, cannot fault the gathering only side of NW.. For a non-gatherer type, I could have done gathering only!
And crafting.. well in NW if you had the mats (forget how to obtain the mats), it too was a great system that bettered all MMOs I have experienced
you liked NW crafting? i thinkit was horrible, there is no logic if i want to create the high tier items, that i will require all low tier items as well, it was boonkers, like you want to create axe? too bad, you need all mats that is in the game in order to make highest tier of the weapon, really dislike that and i really hope that Ashes will not have that material chains as NW, very much dislike this
@Natasha true, especially with how much resource saturation will flood the markets/trades making it essentially a mass clear cutting event until it's not needed anymore where people will most likely partake in to avoid the risks of adventuring out to find the tree's one would actually need.
Every tree nagging at you to cut it means that at its core, you where actually having internal fun with how immersive the system was to live life as a lumberjack.
Right, me being annoyed at literally the entire world around me was me "having fun"
Ashes will differ in the sense that you will need to have it as a profession to be able to do it, so if it's not your cup of tea, it will be irrelevant to you.
It won't be. I'm gonna be a crafter, so resource balance will effect me directly. And I will most likely have a gathering and a processing alt, so the activity itself will be relevant to me too.
But opinions are just that. But considering that a ton of people were creaming their pants over NW's gathering, I'm just here to present an opposite opinion and it'll be up to devs to decide whether they want to change the current design.
you liked NW crafting? i thinkit was horrible, there is no logic if i want to create the high tier items, that i will require all low tier items as well, it was boonkers, like you want to create axe? too bad, you need all mats that is in the game in order to make highest tier of the weapon, really dislike that and i really hope that Ashes will not have that material chains as NW, very much dislike this
Ashes will have the upwards moving crafting system.
There needs to be different types/tiers of wood and a crafting and economic system which means all levels will stay relevant.
You have a baseline "Rough wood" which can be harvested from most trees, regardless of their appearance. That wood can be used as a base ingredient for lots of different craftables. (Ships and Caravans alone will take large amounts of wood)
Then you have 10 tiers of different types of wood that you can unlock the ability to chop as you level (Having 50 levels for lumberjacking would mean a new tier of tree you can chop every 5 levels)
Have a mastery branch that allows you to increase your speed/yield for each tier the more you chop wood of that tier.
You could add levels of enchantment to the trees by adding a glowing aura. You place the highest tier and highest quality resources in the most dangerous areas.
There needs to be different types/tiers of wood and a crafting and economic system which means all levels will stay relevant.
You have a baseline "Rough wood" which can be harvested from most trees, regardless of their appearance. That wood can be used as a base ingredient for lots of different craftables. (Ships and Caravans alone will take large amounts of wood)
Then you have 10 tiers of different types of wood that you can unlock the ability to chop as you level (Having 50 levels for lumberjacking would mean a new tier of tree you can chop every 5 levels)
Have a mastery branch that allows you to increase your speed/yield for each tier the more you chop wood of that tier.
You could add levels of enchantment to the trees by adding a glowing aura. You place the highest tier and highest quality resources in the most dangerous areas.
not against the idea per se but just pointing out that these kind of systems, especially for an MMORPG add a lot to performance demand. Then you get into respawn rates and growing periods if not harvested (assuming part of design), economic influence not only for trades and crafting but node development too. There are various biomes yes, but this game is planning for what.. 10k players currently per server? over a thousand or so?
There are many thing associated with wood that directly affect the pacing of the game in terms of progression and crafting. With how crafting/artisans on how they currently work, you can technically have several professions, not just limited to one.
Would I like the world to allow more freedom for these things? sure, but what are the consequences to overall game design that need to be adjusted to accommodate such a drastic demand from world design, resource saturation, game performance etc
you liked NW crafting? i thinkit was horrible, there is no logic if i want to create the high tier items, that i will require all low tier items as well, it was boonkers, like you want to create axe? too bad, you need all mats that is in the game in order to make highest tier of the weapon, really dislike that and i really hope that Ashes will not have that material chains as NW, very much dislike this
Ashes will have the upwards moving crafting system.
I keep seeing this argument of having no scarcity with having all trees be harvestable..... there is no thought behind these comments.... basic tree low grade wood doesn't need to be rare. Basic wood can be used for many things, even be a consumable for fire places and campfires. Mature trees could have more needed wood of each type, and having different tiers of rare spawns out in the wilds are no different than any other mmo. The only difference and it's a MAJOR one, is all the fluff trees having the ability to be removed temporarily and immerse yourself into the world instead of making up pathetic excuses for why we can chop down a tree with the corruption of an old God infused into it which makes for the strongest hilts for weapons in the game, but yet that basic birch tree... we can't cut that down.... because... reasons....... and those reasons are usually economy..... but the economy is completely designable around full harvest..... and the benefits of "feels right" or "feels good" are absolutely massive to the casual base, who you don't want to completely drive off. You want your sheep well fed so they stay in the pastures even after seeing their friends get eaten don't you? That food they are eating is called happiness.
you need to research before saying things... in Ashes of Creation, every single resource is valuable and is relevant and is also used in endgame
this is not new world where there are useless low tier logs that are not valuable, it takes you more time to type nonsense than it takes to research the wiki.
In the way that low tier resource are required to craft high tier items - yes, if that is how NW worked. Outside of that, we got no clue because we haven't seen the finalized form of the crafting system.
In the way that low tier resource are required to craft high tier items - yes, if that is how NW worked. Outside of that, we got no clue because we haven't seen the finalized form of the crafting system.
That means we can still influence the crafting system?
I hope the game will have a complex enough crafting, so that players who like to fight and do quests to have no time to craft too. Then crafters will have their own place in the game.
September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
In the way that low tier resource are required to craft high tier items - yes, if that is how NW worked. Outside of that, we got no clue because we haven't seen the finalized form of the crafting system.
yeah, basically for high tier items, you needed all low tiers one to create high tier.
e.g. iron, steel, starmetal and orichalcum, for creation of ori, you needed starmetal, but for starmetal you needed steel and for steel iron.
so for axe, you needed ingots, wood and some other thingy, so basically you needed all mats in the game to create high tier item
Yet again I shall advise everyone and anyone who's reading this: please for the love of god read the wiki before getting hyped for anything in the game.
Yes, we might still influence some changes in the untested systems, but there's only so much we can influence, so it's much better to educate yourself on the current design and decide whether you're into it and then decide how far you're ready to go with your feedback if you want to change some design. For example, Noaani has been arguing for Trackers for years now, while Mag7spy has been arguing against them for quite some time too.
If you're ready to do the same thing - you're free to do so. But if not, treat the current design as the final one and, if you dislike it, check back on the game in a few years and see if it got changed and if you're still interested.
Yet again I shall advise everyone and anyone who's reading this: please for the love of god read the wiki before getting hyped for anything in the game.
I promise I will read the wiki!
Then I might end up posting links to wiki
September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
Would I like the world to allow more freedom for these things? sure, but what are the consequences to overall game design that need to be adjusted to accommodate such a drastic demand from world design, resource saturation, game performance etc
Baseless speculation on what the servers can handle shouldn't be factored into hopefull features. They also seem fully invested in optimal performance by launch so any system will be improved on over and over to not be a problem.
I keep seeing this argument of having no scarcity with having all trees be harvestable..... there is no thought behind these comments.... basic tree low grade wood doesn't need to be rare. Basic wood can be used for many things, even be a consumable for fire places and campfires. Mature trees could have more needed wood of each type, and having different tiers of rare spawns out in the wilds are no different than any other mmo. The only difference and it's a MAJOR one, is all the fluff trees having the ability to be removed temporarily and immerse yourself into the world instead of making up pathetic excuses for why we can chop down a tree with the corruption of an old God infused into it which makes for the strongest hilts for weapons in the game, but yet that basic birch tree... we can't cut that down.... because... reasons....... and those reasons are usually economy..... but the economy is completely designable around full harvest..... and the benefits of "feels right" or "feels good" are absolutely massive to the casual base, who you don't want to completely drive off. You want your sheep well fed so they stay in the pastures even after seeing their friends get eaten don't you? That food they are eating is called happiness.
you need to research before saying things... in Ashes of Creation, every single resource is valuable and is relevant and is also used in endgame
this is not new world where there are useless low tier logs that are not valuable, it takes you more time to type nonsense than it takes to research the wiki.
Takes you more time validating nonsensical design that breaks immersion than it does to have logical thought comprehension in the modern Era.
I don't want every tree harvestable, especially if there's a mouse over visual queue for chopping wood. Doubly so with open world combat.
I also feel it'll just lead to AFK gameplay with characters standing where trees grow in proximity with a paperweight bird hitting the keybind to chop wood.
Well this is more quality of life than anything, if they just made it so that these trees would not have a mouseover or interaction interface outside of toggling your "hey im cuttin wood 'ere!" button, it should work out just fine. Right?
As for the bots, that's just gonna happen and all we can hope for is a system that can reduce their influence the best it can. I do not believe having all trees being cuttable is such a huge hurdle to bot management.
Yet again I shall advise everyone and anyone who's reading this: please for the love of god read the wiki before getting hyped for anything in the game.
Yes, we might still influence some changes in the untested systems, but there's only so much we can influence, so it's much better to educate yourself on the current design and decide whether you're into it and then decide how far you're ready to go with your feedback if you want to change some design. For example, Noaani has been arguing for Trackers for years now, while Mag7spy has been arguing against them for quite some time too.
If you're ready to do the same thing - you're free to do so. But if not, treat the current design as the final one and, if you dislike it, check back on the game in a few years and see if it got changed and if you're still interested.
Well I remember in recent discussions with Steven he has said that the gathering we saw in Alpha 1 was subject to change and placeholder. Since there is no actual confirmation on how they want to place these resources and how we will interact with them, this seems like the right time and place to discuss such changes/suggestions.
Well I remember in recent discussions with Steven he has said that the gathering we saw in Alpha 1 was subject to change and placeholder. Since there is no actual confirmation on how they want to place these resources and how we will interact with them, this seems like the right time and place to discuss such changes/suggestions.
Like I said here before, anything rn is "placeholder" because it has to be. It's the main line of defense against the people yelling "this looks like shit" (not saying anyone here is saying that). And outside of that, like I said in that post, we can influence some things but only to an extent. The "not all trees will be harvestable" was a thing even before alpha1 iirc, so it's not like that was just a thing that was made purely for alpha1.
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akabearMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
you liked NW crafting? i thinkit was horrible, there is no logic if i want to create the high tier items, that i will require all low tier items as well, it was boonkers, like you want to create axe? too bad, you need all mats that is in the game in order to make highest tier of the weapon, really dislike that and i really hope that Ashes will not have that material chains as NW, very much dislike this
As two independent elements... gathering and crafting were excellent in NW.
Crafting kept all level materials relevant from beginner to end game crafting..
Absolutely thought the idea of adding higher grade mats and/or higher quantities for a higher chance of a better craft. also great for being a material sink in game and kind of user pays/risk/reward
Only gripe was the balance of these was not quite right. and no noticable corrections.
Takes you more time validating nonsensical design that breaks immersion than it does to have logical thought comprehension in the modern Era.
"nonsensical design that breaks immersion"
dude is playing a video game where you can store dozens of trees and rocks you gather in your ass aka inventory, but is worried about adding a mechanic from SURVIVAL and BASE BUILDING games that would (like it did with NW) fuck up an MMORPG economy that he isn't even familiar with how it works, because of iMmErSiOn.
Would I like the world to allow more freedom for these things? sure, but what are the consequences to overall game design that need to be adjusted to accommodate such a drastic demand from world design, resource saturation, game performance etc
Baseless speculation on what the servers can handle shouldn't be factored into hopefull features. They also seem fully invested in optimal performance by launch so any system will be improved on over and over to not be a problem.
Going to mention new world again. After playing that I will be upset if we can't cut down every single tree. I don't see why it wouldn't work.
I see in wiki that you might ruin the forest if you cut all trees. Then other players might be upset on you.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Resources
Ideas like land management- and as you draw resources from your surrounding area- what type of effect does that have on the land; and then also how effectively can you draw those resources without having such a deleterious effect on the land, which might impact future resource gathering for some period of time: And it makes relevant the movement of these players who are collecting these goods from the environment, that they actually cannot always just do so in one particular area, as the land management begins to degrade. So it actually encourages movement across the world to discover new areas that might not be as perturbed as the ones you're coming from. It's a very interesting idea. It's something that we're going to be prototyping in Alpha 2 and getting feedback on and testing.
I wonder if this will really stay as intended or will change after testing.
How will players who feel responsible and avoid cutting all trees deal with somebody like you?
Maybe you will need to buy a permit to harvest in a certain area and some player decides yes or no?
Maybe if you harvest without a permit you will become a law breaking player?
Or players will simply be upset and nobody will want to play with you?
This is like when somebody farms a boss and nobody else has the chance to loot.
And bots. How we deal with them? Will anyone ban them because they do not listen and cut trees?
if is called land management, there must be a manager who sells harvesting permits and assigns a quota so you cannot harvest as much as you want.
Noone will play with me because I like to cut trees?
I changed my mind. You can cut all the trees you want!
I hope the server will be full of trees, many many trees.
September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
Comments
That's why Minecraft is so popular! I always plant a new tree when I cut one down in that game.
I also feel it'll just lead to AFK gameplay with characters standing where trees grow in proximity with a paperweight bird hitting the keybind to chop wood.
you liked NW crafting? i thinkit was horrible, there is no logic if i want to create the high tier items, that i will require all low tier items as well, it was boonkers, like you want to create axe? too bad, you need all mats that is in the game in order to make highest tier of the weapon, really dislike that and i really hope that Ashes will not have that material chains as NW, very much dislike this
But opinions are just that. But considering that a ton of people were creaming their pants over NW's gathering, I'm just here to present an opposite opinion and it'll be up to devs to decide whether they want to change the current design.
You'll need low tier items to craft higher tier items. https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Crafting
There needs to be different types/tiers of wood and a crafting and economic system which means all levels will stay relevant.
You have a baseline "Rough wood" which can be harvested from most trees, regardless of their appearance. That wood can be used as a base ingredient for lots of different craftables. (Ships and Caravans alone will take large amounts of wood)
Then you have 10 tiers of different types of wood that you can unlock the ability to chop as you level (Having 50 levels for lumberjacking would mean a new tier of tree you can chop every 5 levels)
Have a mastery branch that allows you to increase your speed/yield for each tier the more you chop wood of that tier.
You could add levels of enchantment to the trees by adding a glowing aura. You place the highest tier and highest quality resources in the most dangerous areas.
not against the idea per se but just pointing out that these kind of systems, especially for an MMORPG add a lot to performance demand. Then you get into respawn rates and growing periods if not harvested (assuming part of design), economic influence not only for trades and crafting but node development too. There are various biomes yes, but this game is planning for what.. 10k players currently per server? over a thousand or so?
There are many thing associated with wood that directly affect the pacing of the game in terms of progression and crafting. With how crafting/artisans on how they currently work, you can technically have several professions, not just limited to one.
Would I like the world to allow more freedom for these things? sure, but what are the consequences to overall game design that need to be adjusted to accommodate such a drastic demand from world design, resource saturation, game performance etc
So it will be same as in NW?
you need to research before saying things... in Ashes of Creation, every single resource is valuable and is relevant and is also used in endgame
this is not new world where there are useless low tier logs that are not valuable, it takes you more time to type nonsense than it takes to research the wiki.
That means we can still influence the crafting system?
I hope the game will have a complex enough crafting, so that players who like to fight and do quests to have no time to craft too. Then crafters will have their own place in the game.
yeah, basically for high tier items, you needed all low tiers one to create high tier.
e.g. iron, steel, starmetal and orichalcum, for creation of ori, you needed starmetal, but for starmetal you needed steel and for steel iron.
so for axe, you needed ingots, wood and some other thingy, so basically you needed all mats in the game to create high tier item
oh, now im sad, because i dislike it
Yes, we might still influence some changes in the untested systems, but there's only so much we can influence, so it's much better to educate yourself on the current design and decide whether you're into it and then decide how far you're ready to go with your feedback if you want to change some design. For example, Noaani has been arguing for Trackers for years now, while Mag7spy has been arguing against them for quite some time too.
If you're ready to do the same thing - you're free to do so. But if not, treat the current design as the final one and, if you dislike it, check back on the game in a few years and see if it got changed and if you're still interested.
Then I might end up posting links to wiki
Baseless speculation on what the servers can handle shouldn't be factored into hopefull features. They also seem fully invested in optimal performance by launch so any system will be improved on over and over to not be a problem.
Takes you more time validating nonsensical design that breaks immersion than it does to have logical thought comprehension in the modern Era.
Well this is more quality of life than anything, if they just made it so that these trees would not have a mouseover or interaction interface outside of toggling your "hey im cuttin wood 'ere!" button, it should work out just fine. Right?
As for the bots, that's just gonna happen and all we can hope for is a system that can reduce their influence the best it can. I do not believe having all trees being cuttable is such a huge hurdle to bot management.
Well I remember in recent discussions with Steven he has said that the gathering we saw in Alpha 1 was subject to change and placeholder. Since there is no actual confirmation on how they want to place these resources and how we will interact with them, this seems like the right time and place to discuss such changes/suggestions.
As two independent elements... gathering and crafting were excellent in NW.
Crafting kept all level materials relevant from beginner to end game crafting..
Absolutely thought the idea of adding higher grade mats and/or higher quantities for a higher chance of a better craft. also great for being a material sink in game and kind of user pays/risk/reward
Only gripe was the balance of these was not quite right. and no noticable corrections.
"nonsensical design that breaks immersion"
dude is playing a video game where you can store dozens of trees and rocks you gather in your ass aka inventory, but is worried about adding a mechanic from SURVIVAL and BASE BUILDING games that would (like it did with NW) fuck up an MMORPG economy that he isn't even familiar with how it works, because of iMmErSiOn.
baseless speculation? not at all.
I changed my mind. You can cut all the trees you want!
I hope the server will be full of trees, many many trees.