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Rivers

tugowartugowar Member, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
in General Discussion
Hi,

1. Can players swim?
2. Are there inland rivers connected to the sea of sufficient width that a caravan will be transformed into a raft?
3. Can or should rivers be pvp zones, like the open seas are?


Virtue is the only good.

Comments

  • GalvyrGalvyr Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited September 2022
    Raft caravans sound cool! Hopefully you can sail boats up rivers. From the looks of the Season/Weather System reveal, that seems to be the case.

    In response to whether players can swim: Yes they can!

    And I don’t think think rivers should be PvP zones. It seems like that would be a messy situation.
  • tugowartugowar Member, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited September 2022
    Actually, it just dawned on me, caravans are roving PVP zones already. (Or did that change?) So, in effect, river pirates can be a thing as long as there are navigable rivers. That's all I was getting at. :)

    Virtue is the only good.
  • VolgarisVolgaris Member, Alpha Two
    last word was that they are roving pvp zones. not sure how corruption is going work within that zone. with the way corruption works, it doesn't seem like a pvp zone is needed. unless they want it to be like open sea..? with all the sea battles this game will have characters better be able to swim lol. could you imagine your ship sinks or you're knocked overboard and NW swimming kicks in?
  • BiccusBiccus Member
    Caravan events are opt in. You only auto flag if you join the event, in which case you’re flagged as a combatant and corruption will not apply.
    Would like to know how a group ship with cannons would work against a caravan in water mode, though.
  • CROW3CROW3 Member, Alpha Two
    1. Yes
    2. Yes the part one - I don’t know on part 2
    3. No

    I would like rivers to have current though.
    AoC+Dwarf+750v3.png
  • MaiWaifuMaiWaifu Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    tugowar wrote: »
    2. Are there inland rivers connected to the sea of sufficient width that a caravan will be transformed into a raft?

    Wouldn't it make more sense to be forced to look for shallow points and bridges to form choke points for ambush?

    If you know there's only like 3-5 possible ways for someone to cross a river with a caravan, I think it leads to better engaging gameplay since both parties can anticipate a fight.
    tugowar wrote: »
    3. Can or should rivers be pvp zones, like the open seas are?

    I'm not sure I like the idea of all rivers becoming PvP zones.

    For naval combat, thematically, I don't think it makes sense. Pirates exist on the open seas since they can escape. On a river, you'd realistically only be travelling down stream unless you're a viking. I also don't imagine large vessles having much room to navigate on a river.

    For low scale PvP, I also don't see why this would make sense to be an open PvP zone. I feel like the combat area and window of opportunity to make use of it would be very limited. Getting flagged just because you crossed a river and having to wait 90s every time for it to unflag sounds like it'll just be a nuisance.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited September 2022
    Caravans are opt-in. It's possible that Naval Caravans might use rivers. That really has nothing to do with "pirates". Just as land Caravans reaally have nothing to do with "pirates".
    People can attack and defend Caravans, whether those Caravans are on land or in the water. You can call the attackers of water Caravans "pirates" if you want to, sure.

    It's probably possible for players to have personal Naval Caravans move down rivers.
    We don't have enough info to know whether Mayoral or Quest Driven Caravans will have river routes.
    Bandits attack riverboats, so I dunno why that would be precluded in Verra.
  • tugowartugowar Member, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I don't think you can get away from the idea of it being piracy, bandits, highwaymen, etc. when you attack a caravan. You're attacking someone else to steal their goods - the fruits of their efforts. I don't know why, but using terms like theft really breaks the 4th wall for me.

    Virtue is the only good.
  • MaiWaifuMaiWaifu Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Ah yes, this is true.
    Dygz wrote: »
    Just as land Caravans reaally have nothing to do with "pirates".
    People can attack and defend Caravans, whether those Caravans are on land or in the water. You can call the attackers of water Caravans "pirates" if you want to, sure.

    Apologies, I understand bandits and highway men do exist on land but from my understanding IS have chosen only Pirates/Privateering to being an exception that autoflags everyone.

    I also assumed he meant creating a raft to move directly across the river instead of using it for upstream/downstream travel.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    MaiWaifu wrote: »
    Apologies, I understand bandits and highway men do exist on land but from my understanding IS have chosen only Pirates/Privateering to being an exception that autoflags everyone.
    Well, I mean... the Open Seas auto-flags everyone. Doesn't matter if you're not pirating or privateering there.
  • SongRuneSongRune Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited September 2022
    MaiWaifu wrote: »
    Ah yes, this is true.
    Dygz wrote: »
    Just as land Caravans reaally have nothing to do with "pirates".
    People can attack and defend Caravans, whether those Caravans are on land or in the water. You can call the attackers of water Caravans "pirates" if you want to, sure.

    Apologies, I understand bandits and highway men do exist on land but from my understanding IS have chosen only Pirates/Privateering to being an exception that autoflags everyone.

    I also assumed he meant creating a raft to move directly across the river instead of using it for upstream/downstream travel.

    That's the error then. Pirates (the activity) are not the exception, the Open Seas (location) is. Obviously those are related, but near shore piracy for example is specifically not exempt.

    Caravans, even in their water "mode" are already corruption-free PvP objectives though, so the question is pointless as a whole. The OP is asking if they should be able to freely gank low-level players crossing rivers normally or not. It's not about caravans. Those were corruption-free already.
  • neuroguyneuroguy Member, Alpha Two
    Rivers need to have some impact on caravans, like preventing their crossing. This would make the creation of bridges important for trade routes. That being said, I would love for some rivers being big enough for smaller ships to travel more inland.
  • tugowartugowar Member, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    SongRune wrote: »
    MaiWaifu wrote: »
    Ah yes, this is true.
    Dygz wrote: »
    Just as land Caravans reaally have nothing to do with "pirates".
    People can attack and defend Caravans, whether those Caravans are on land or in the water. You can call the attackers of water Caravans "pirates" if you want to, sure.

    Apologies, I understand bandits and highway men do exist on land but from my understanding IS have chosen only Pirates/Privateering to being an exception that autoflags everyone.

    I also assumed he meant creating a raft to move directly across the river instead of using it for upstream/downstream travel.

    That's the error then. Pirates (the activity) are not the exception, the Open Seas (location) is. Obviously those are related, but near shore piracy for example is specifically not exempt.

    Caravans, even in their water "mode" are already corruption-free PvP objectives though, so the question is pointless as a whole. The OP is asking if they should be able to freely gank low-level players crossing rivers normally or not. It's not about caravans. Those were corruption-free already.

    harsh, but i acknowledged as much maybe 4 or 5 posts down. i forgot about the caravan flag mechanic.


    Virtue is the only good.
  • BiccusBiccus Member
    neuroguy wrote: »
    Rivers need to have some impact on caravans, like preventing their crossing. This would make the creation of bridges important for trade routes. That being said, I would love for some rivers being big enough for smaller ships to travel more inland.
    From what I remember reading, a land caravan has to spend a few unprotected minutes transforming into a water based one once it’s at the water. So a risk of going in the water is you have to be a sitting duck for a while before you can sail the waters.
  • SongRuneSongRune Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    tugowar wrote: »
    SongRune wrote: »
    MaiWaifu wrote: »
    Ah yes, this is true.
    Dygz wrote: »
    Just as land Caravans reaally have nothing to do with "pirates".
    People can attack and defend Caravans, whether those Caravans are on land or in the water. You can call the attackers of water Caravans "pirates" if you want to, sure.

    Apologies, I understand bandits and highway men do exist on land but from my understanding IS have chosen only Pirates/Privateering to being an exception that autoflags everyone.

    I also assumed he meant creating a raft to move directly across the river instead of using it for upstream/downstream travel.

    That's the error then. Pirates (the activity) are not the exception, the Open Seas (location) is. Obviously those are related, but near shore piracy for example is specifically not exempt.

    Caravans, even in their water "mode" are already corruption-free PvP objectives though, so the question is pointless as a whole. The OP is asking if they should be able to freely gank low-level players crossing rivers normally or not. It's not about caravans. Those were corruption-free already.

    harsh, but i acknowledged as much maybe 4 or 5 posts down. i forgot about the caravan flag mechanic.

    My apologies. I missed that post (on mobile). There have been so many not-so-subtle similar "requests", lately that I didn't think to question it.
  • SongRuneSongRune Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Biccus wrote: »
    neuroguy wrote: »
    Rivers need to have some impact on caravans, like preventing their crossing. This would make the creation of bridges important for trade routes. That being said, I would love for some rivers being big enough for smaller ships to travel more inland.
    From what I remember reading, a land caravan has to spend a few unprotected minutes transforming into a water based one once it’s at the water. So a risk of going in the water is you have to be a sitting duck for a while before you can sail the waters.

    This is another point I wanted to make. If you cross at the bridge you go right over. If you try to ford it at a deep point, you spend a lot of extra time sitting on the shore while your caravan reconfigures for water, only to have the same "sitting duck" period on the way back. It's a valid tactic if you think you'll get away with it, but there's definitely a trade off that makes bridges and natural crossings valuable. If anything, it's another of the many risk/reward options that Ashes aims to offer.
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