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Narrow dungeons vs open dungeons
Sunboy
Member
I always preferred narrow ones since it’s such a contrast to the open world we usually roam in and line of sight, movement, placement becomes more important in combat.
How about you?
Much love ❤️
How about you?
Much love ❤️
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Everything from Elden Ring open space dungeons, to classical wow-like narrow hallway stuff to the permanently-shifting re-aranging pyramid from Alien vs Predator.
Much love ❤️
Lots of different pathways, rooms and hidden POIs. Upon entry, you have no mini-map and you only unlock that dungeon's map once you have manually explored and found all the different rooms.
Something like this for an Instanced dungeon accessed through Open-World instanced entrances (Hopefully instanced dungeon content is accessed through open-world exploration and not just a Menu UI system) You would only have access to sections of it depending on the development of a Nodes ZOI. It would unlock more as the Node progresses.
Once you manually explore the dungeon it would unlock a mini-map of it which could be sold to other players.
And I'm pretty sure that Steven wants something very similar because L2's dungeons looked soooomewhat like this, with just fewer rooms.
I want some dungeons being in the open. Maybe a mountain pass. Maybe another one is a castle, which includes the courtyard just as well as the actual halls.
I don't want all of the dungeons being a cave or an ancient mine below ground.
Both Instanced and Open world dungeons are planned. There will be instances.
I think there should be dynamically spawning instanced dungeon entrances that appear across the open world in a similar way to resource nodes.
Undead civ would be nice. . . constant threat, replenishing numbers. . . use your corpse against you or something. . .
If it's a location with a faction holing up then they should be alarmed, alerting others and all coming out to take your group of aggressors down. If they keep getting attacked then they will try sealing the place while sending most of their numbers out to raid and ambush. Smart stuff.
Imagine some idiots stirring up the hornets nest of some usually neutral though territorial NPC faction and Ranger ambushes occuring all throughout the forest because of it. Or Undead Faction turning their attention to your Node and general direction because groups keep trying to take advantage of half the Undead being out and sieging a neighboring node/ general area.
Gotta shift the focus. Threats shouldn't hang out and do nothing; and they should take advantage of terrain & building features.
I haven't read or heard anything that states that instanced content will be one and done. Source?
Only 20%? That's a lot considering the stated aims of how much content they are looking to create.
Why can't instanced dungeons provide rewards other than gear? There could be some gear drops, but I think it would be better to have a thematic cosmetic set that has an RNG chance of dropping. It means that the drops in instanced content would be cool cosmetic sets (perhaps dungeon master trophies for your house or furniture items) that wouldn't impact the overall player-driven economy because they would only be grinded to unlock achievements, cosmetics and wouldn't be a source for gold or significant XP.
There will be PVE in ashes of creation.
There's a chance they'll have a few repeatable "once a week or two" dungeons to provide a proper difficult boss encounter, but so far there have been no mention of this.
Why do you want 'loot' that has no tie to where it came from?
A trophy sounds alright tbh. Like a Dragon Tooth from the Dragon. Could be a reagent, could also be put in your house though.
Head of/ Hand of someone? Rots though. . . get it preserved? Your morbid trophy not mine I guess.
Someone's unique ring, armor. . . whatever they were wearing and what's around the place.
When people say 'instanced' they also assume or know that they are in a private instance?
Instance could be just a dungeon on a separated server, with a transition waiting screen, but still accessible to multiple teams and with PvP enabled (or not enabled but still competitive).
So what kind of instanced dungeons will we have?
Why do you want 'loot' that has no tie to where it came from?
What? Where did I say that? Having a thematic range of self-contained storylines within the world of Verra which give cosmetic drops related to that dungeon's story/theme. Is the opposite of that. It's thematic, fun and wouldn't affect the economy.
I think the way you describe having dungeons in the game is very limited, I also think your scope is way off. 6 instanced dungeons? In the entire game? Huh? Considering each race is planned to have instanced content related to storylines etc. That alone would be a bare minimum of 9.
When it comes to instanced-based content... I think a spread something along the lines of.
Solo Instanced PvE - (Enter an instance solo and fight NPCs)
Solo Instanced PvX - (Enter an instance solo and fight NPCs that others can also enter solo and contest)
Small Group Instanced PvE - (Enter an instance as a group and fight NPCs)
Small Group Instanced PvX - (Enter an instance as a group and fight NPCs that others can also enter as groups and contest)
Small Solo Instanced PvP - (Enter a instanced death match/Arena for 1v1 PVP)
Small Group Instanced - (Enter an instanced death match/ Arena/ Battleground for group PVP)
8 16 and 40 Man Raids - (Enter an instance for a raid)
(Also housing and quest lines will use instances)
Obviously, the Open world will have the lion's share of content for all of the above scenarios. There should be content curated toward all of this.
I'd be fine with them. Well, obviously arena is a repeatable thing, but I don't see those as instanced content, even if they technically are.
And as for race story-based instances, I'm not sure if we've seen any indication that each race will have a story separate enough to warrant a whole instance encounter. Yes, there'll be class (and maybe race) story quests, but we don't know if that's the "story" of the game. How can that location be "private" if others can enter it? L2 had such dungeons but literally no one called them instanced because they weren't. If others can mess with your farm that's not instanced content because you don't have a personal instance of said content.
Ashes had these types of location in alpha1. The volcano dragon needed you to TP through a portal to get to him. Don't recall anyone calling that dragon "instanced".
"And as for race story-based instances, I'm not sure if we've seen any indication that each race will have a story separate enough to warrant a whole instance encounter. Yes, there'll be class (and maybe race) story quests, but we don't know if that's the "story" of the game."
I would be incredibly surprised and pretty disappointed if there aren't questlines covering each of the races. I don't mean a singular QL that only players of that race can do (Like a starting leveling experience) but rather a storyline where you as a player (and/or as a group) embark on quests that explore the different races cultures providing information about their history, etc.
I do wonder what the scope of Quests and Storylines will be. Following the Development and listening to Steven talk it most certainly has the potential to be incredibly in-depth and expansive. It's certainly something I'd like to hear talked about on a future Dev stream.
I'll never forget the first time I entered the waterfall area after pushing through the tunnel area. Perfect execution of a transition between major parts of a dungeon. The use of environment that wasn't even crucial to the completion of the dungeon also added scale to the area, and really held an impact for me.
Definitely hope the open world dungeons have variety in both cramped dungeon halls and massive caverns and chambers to provide sense of scale and allow for all sorts of fights and monsters to encounter.
Now in AoC, they can have 500 players close to each-other in a node siege instance.
So maybe the 20% of instanced content is indeed intended to be only for a single player or a single team.
How much is for story and how much is to be used later once the player leveled up?
I would also prefer the story related parts to be less than 20% and developers to focus on end game open world content.
Why would you want the devs to focus on end game? As in end-level?
I think MMOs need to be designed to be always mid-game lol; journey not the destination.
So a level 100 contributes more but still can't solo 3 - 4 man level 50 content unless the content is easier for their class or something and the player is quite skilled at executing and using terrain to their advantage or pop a lot of consumables such as bombs; maybe they bring their mount dragging a cannon to help take down 1 difficult entity, and the mount can attack as well. Maybe they set up a barricade outside to draw entities to where there's some form of a trap or advantage.
But basically players should start at Level 20 and max at Level 80. 80 being 4x the power of level 20. And mostly nothing really soloable.
What would be your issue with this developer focus?
Same here. Being underground in dark places all the time gets very boring. I'd love to see some above ground "dungeons." Like Lost Vale in Warhammer Online. Not the majority, just some above ground.
The time to level up is already decided: 45 days That is quite a short time and somehow will pass. I don't feel that all the leveling process has to be covered with instances, offering safety and telling stories to the player.
Else, if leveling (journey) would be the important one, I agree. The game could be made to require players at all levels at all times, to provide low level resources needed for high recipes and low level PvP to work like the high level PvP. But the game doesn't seem to be designed with this in mind.