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Item sinks for mounts

Tamers will gather the animals as resource and sell them.
Animal husbandry artisans will produce enhanced mounts and sell them.
They all want to sell.

Then item sink must happen
The concept there is this is part of the engine that is supply and demand. So the server is constantly generating these materials on tick as they kind of propagate throughout the world and get repopulated, players are going out there and collecting these things. We want to make sure that there is a driving force and factor behind what crafters and gatherers are out there doing: There's constantly going to be a demand for them to supply these things. Whether that death is from PvP or from PvE these are going to be necessities for players to constantly provide.[132] – Steven Sharif

What are the ways to remove the mounts from the game?
It's important for a healthy economy to have item sinks, so that anything that can be crafted can also be destroyed:[6]
  1. Over-enchanting carries the risk of destroying that item[104], rendering it useless for use temporarily.[129]
  2. Players gain craftable items and recipes from deconstructing (salvaging) completed items.[104]
  3. A portion of resources and materials are lost when caravans or nodes are destroyed.[130]
  4. Corrupted players who die can lose gear.[131]
  5. Item durability (item decay) does not destroy items, but it acts as a materials sink.[131][132][133] Zero percent durability will unequip an item, increasing its repair costs.[134]
1, 2 and 5 cannot apply to mounts.
Remain 3 and 4

3)
- Why would a player transport mounts through a caravan? Maybe if he moves to a new node and has no that much space in inventory?
- The animal husbandry artisan might also send the animals through caravans to other nodes to sell them, but only if there is enough demand. So only if there is sink for the mounts.
- mounts are stored in stables.
The stables debris might contain mount certificates that can be added to caravans in the future or sold on the auction house.[8]

4) I understand that corrupted players when they loose gear, that gear can be lost completely, not in a way that the other player grabs the lost item. Else is not an item sink. It just changes owner.
And is not clear if he can also lose mounts. I think it should, to maintain a healthy economy.

I have the feeling that the game doesn't have enough item sinks for mounts.
Maybe all of them should die of old age like:
Temporary mounts that drop from bosses will age and eventually die.[90]
September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!

Comments

  • superhero6785superhero6785 Member, Alpha Two
    The best mount/pet item sink, IMO, would be aging. Animals have a lifespan. Maybe they don't ever actually "die" but maybe when they get "old" their movement speed is reduced 50%. That way you can still keep your unique mounts to show off or have them roam your freehold, but you'd have to buy new mounts from Tamers to have them operating at 100%
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    ♪ One Gummy Fish, two Gummy Fish, Red Gummy Fish, Blue Gummy Fish
  • Azherae wrote: »

    Thanks. I'll read every single post before I post here again :smile:
    September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
  • CROW3CROW3 Member, Alpha Two
    There is this arcane magical power that some call ‘search’. 🪄 ✨🤯

    That aside, totally agree that mount sinks are totally necessary. I’m not a fan of mount deletion (hard death) especially after upgrading over time. I wonder if we did something like a degradation curve based on time in a stable, down to say 1% effectiveness. So it’s technically still alive, but essentially unusable. At this point you could pay (in some form) to raise it back to 100%, do nothing (but it takes up a stable slot), or choose to euthanize it.

    This would create a soft mount sink, a hard mount sink, and another gold / resource sink.
    AoC+Dwarf+750v3.png
  • WarthWarth Member, Alpha Two
    edited September 2022
    Personally, i dont think that Mount-Deaths/Removals are the right way to go, but i agree with the fact, that there needs to be some sinks.

    If i had to design a system, then Id go with the following:
    1. Give the mounts a finite useability period (lets say 30 days).
    2. This useability period of the mount can be extended through sacrificing the essence of another mount (same grade, same tier, same level).

    This way
    • (non-optimal) mounts rise in value, as they now have a secondary purpose as sacrificial material.
    • People can keep their favorite mounts
    • You have an effective item sink that works the same way as gear repairs.

    That, or make getting the optimal mount a very long (multiple years) progression with feeding mounts in your primary mount to make it better (similar to an enchantment system), though preferably with 100% success if you have all the sacrifical mounts.
  • @Azherae I've checked all posts.
    Nerror wrote: »
    I am still partial to the butchering idea. It's simple and practical.

    Nerror's Amazing Abattoir
    Slaughtering your beloved mounts and pets for profit!
    (You get to watch for 100g extra)
    Geronimo wrote: »
    @Nerror Solution #5

    1*YMNUd-RJjloh0PFiCVMugg.png
    CROW3 wrote: »
    CROW3 wrote: »
    I think in Ultima VII if you killed a horse you could eat it.
    That aside, totally agree that mount sinks are totally necessary. I’m not a fan of mount deletion (hard death)
    CROW3 got a like for a telling something he doesn't like. :smile:
    Atama wrote: »
    "Pet resurrection potions" might require something from breeders (Steven said the Alchemy profession would brew them, but I could see an alchemist needing a component from breeders potentially).
    This could solve the problem but with a little bit different approach.
    Azherae wrote: »
    tl;dr don't make it so that their job shifts over time from 'breeding new mounts' to 'making items to maintain mounts'.
    Azherae wrote: »
    I'm used to games where stuff has an upkeep cost. Even when that cost seems like it would be prohibitive, it never matters to me, I'm usually relatively 'merchant' and better at making money in MMOs than most people.
    Geronimo wrote: »
    However, the purpose of the mount is to ride it. The aging solution takes away my agency to use the mount for it's intended purpose (riding it).
    Some players may want just to collect them.
    Azherae wrote: »
    CROW3 wrote: »
    If mounts can die, are mounts killable?
    Does killing someone's mount give you Corruption? What about if the person is purple at the time but not on the mount? A question for next stream I guess.
    We did get an answer to this a long time ago and it was that mounts don't give corruption if they are killed.
    Not related to this thread but was an interesting statement.
    I wonder if this applies to mules as well.
    Killing mules to loot them without fear of corruption would definitely encourage using caravans for longer trips.
    So I didn't think about this but as Davey pointed out, mounts are used for caravan construction and when they are destroyed, the caravan is gone and some of the components are destroyed. This would remove mounts from the market.
    Noaani wrote: »
    I actually know someone that exploited a situation like this in an MMO to generate gold, he sold the gold over a period of time and bought a house.

    Not an in game house. A house.
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Sounds like a good question for the next Q&A!
    Biccus wrote: »
    There’s always butchering any mounts that don’t/won’t sell whole 😅
    daveywavey wrote: »
    WTS 10x [AntFish (Rare) (Neutered), +Speed, +Stamina] 35k, 5x [BatShark (Legendary) (Neutered), +Speed, +Damage] 85k, 1x [PigBird (Common) (Unneutered), +Carry Weight, +Constitution] 350k


    I've got your back @Nerror
    :joy:
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Azherae wrote: »
    if leaving mounts outside of dungeons is a thing one has any good reason to do.

    You'd just put it in your Horse Pocket, surely?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvEe3Y3B2cg
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Nerror wrote: »
    Gelding is specifically something you do to the males though. It's castration. Removal of testicles. Cutting open the ballsack and then cutting them out. Stealing the family jewels. Nicking or nixing the nuts. Call it what you will, but it is only for males :wink:

    Ohhhh, stop it, Pancake, stop it! I'm feeling a little sick..... :s

    and finally the thread was closed :joy:

    @Vaknar , I understand now how hard is to read all posts. I hope they pay you well.

    People proposed different solutions:
    - mounts need food to prevent them dying of hunger (does not help the breeding profession)
    - mounts age and need resurrection probably with blood from young mounts (could work if I give the young animal to the player and let him decide which one to keep. Should require a same tier young mount)
    - can be made into bacon (high tier mounts for bacon? doesn't seem an incentive to kill them)
    - caravan destruction (do caravans need high tier mounts?)

    Somehow very few people care about tamers and animal husbandry artisans.
    September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
  • Strevi wrote: »
    @Azherae I've checked all posts.
    Nerror wrote: »
    I am still partial to the butchering idea. It's simple and practical.

    Nerror's Amazing Abattoir
    Slaughtering your beloved mounts and pets for profit!
    (You get to watch for 100g extra)
    Geronimo wrote: »
    @Nerror Solution #5

    1*YMNUd-RJjloh0PFiCVMugg.png
    CROW3 wrote: »
    CROW3 wrote: »
    I think in Ultima VII if you killed a horse you could eat it.
    That aside, totally agree that mount sinks are totally necessary. I’m not a fan of mount deletion (hard death)
    CROW3 got a like for a telling something he doesn't like. :smile:
    Atama wrote: »
    "Pet resurrection potions" might require something from breeders (Steven said the Alchemy profession would brew them, but I could see an alchemist needing a component from breeders potentially).
    This could solve the problem but with a little bit different approach.
    Azherae wrote: »
    tl;dr don't make it so that their job shifts over time from 'breeding new mounts' to 'making items to maintain mounts'.
    Azherae wrote: »
    I'm used to games where stuff has an upkeep cost. Even when that cost seems like it would be prohibitive, it never matters to me, I'm usually relatively 'merchant' and better at making money in MMOs than most people.
    Geronimo wrote: »
    However, the purpose of the mount is to ride it. The aging solution takes away my agency to use the mount for it's intended purpose (riding it).
    Some players may want just to collect them.
    Azherae wrote: »
    CROW3 wrote: »
    If mounts can die, are mounts killable?
    Does killing someone's mount give you Corruption? What about if the person is purple at the time but not on the mount? A question for next stream I guess.
    We did get an answer to this a long time ago and it was that mounts don't give corruption if they are killed.
    Not related to this thread but was an interesting statement.
    I wonder if this applies to mules as well.
    Killing mules to loot them without fear of corruption would definitely encourage using caravans for longer trips.
    So I didn't think about this but as Davey pointed out, mounts are used for caravan construction and when they are destroyed, the caravan is gone and some of the components are destroyed. This would remove mounts from the market.
    Noaani wrote: »
    I actually know someone that exploited a situation like this in an MMO to generate gold, he sold the gold over a period of time and bought a house.

    Not an in game house. A house.
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Sounds like a good question for the next Q&A!
    Biccus wrote: »
    There’s always butchering any mounts that don’t/won’t sell whole 😅
    daveywavey wrote: »
    WTS 10x [AntFish (Rare) (Neutered), +Speed, +Stamina] 35k, 5x [BatShark (Legendary) (Neutered), +Speed, +Damage] 85k, 1x [PigBird (Common) (Unneutered), +Carry Weight, +Constitution] 350k


    I've got your back @Nerror
    :joy:
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Azherae wrote: »
    if leaving mounts outside of dungeons is a thing one has any good reason to do.

    You'd just put it in your Horse Pocket, surely?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvEe3Y3B2cg
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Nerror wrote: »
    Gelding is specifically something you do to the males though. It's castration. Removal of testicles. Cutting open the ballsack and then cutting them out. Stealing the family jewels. Nicking or nixing the nuts. Call it what you will, but it is only for males :wink:

    Ohhhh, stop it, Pancake, stop it! I'm feeling a little sick..... :s

    and finally the thread was closed :joy:

    @Vaknar , I understand now how hard is to read all posts. I hope they pay you well.

    People proposed different solutions:
    - mounts need food to prevent them dying of hunger (does not help the breeding profession)
    - mounts age and need resurrection probably with blood from young mounts (could work if I give the young animal to the player and let him decide which one to keep. Should require a same tier young mount)
    - can be made into bacon (high tier mounts for bacon? doesn't seem an incentive to kill them)
    - caravan destruction (do caravans need high tier mounts?)

    Somehow very few people care about tamers and animal husbandry artisans.

    lol @CROW3 wants to make mounts more of a 'sink' so developers are afraid of letting them die. But yeah let 'em be bacon.

    Economic saturation does not mean anything to most people they have low grasp of econ or don't connect cause to 'subjective' [user experience] effect even.
    Without a sink to drain it all becomes a SWAMP.

    ---

    Mount breeding would over-saturate the availability of mounts. I don't think server resets are planned so it's a real issue.

    Dying from hunger and damage is a good remedy and gives people their niche of Mount Breeding and Care.
    If ya piss off the Breeder no mount for you lol. Maybe he kills your mount while stabling it.

    Butchering sounds great.

    World isn't very large anyway (10 minutes to leave Node influence is a short walk in real life and 1.3 hours is a long stroll).

    Food could even improve mounts.
    It at least gives Farmers and Herb gatherers more use and the resources are Expendible thus they will always be relevant.
    That's gamin' that is always relevant but not necessary.

    If everyone has a thing/function [mounts] with no possibility of losing it and always having acces to it. . . . . .
    It just isn't unique or even interesting. Dynamics between haves and have-nots don't exist.
    It's not that big of a deal to be without a mount though.

    Armorering up your Mount or putting a small cannon on it sounds pretty dope though. It's also a material sink and keeps the economy and logistics more elaborate, relevant, and opens optionality for emergent gameplay (more ways to sabotage others including economically, more ways to try and defend against that, more ways for people to contribute and be in the right place at the right time or wrong place at the wrong time).

  • Ah and you can feed your mount potions that's dope. Healers can heal it. Yeah having mounts be entities sounds cool.
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