So either upfront commitment from the group , not always guaranteeably, or frustrated parties when not able to do much time together without having to re-start.
To me, that's the life of a party in a party-based game. You have to plan accordingly and account for any possible member losses along the way.
And a lot will depend on how important any given member is. If the whole party loses its pve potential completely from just losing one member - yeah, it'll be a bad time. But this would also be a bad party design imo. Yes, let them lose some power but not all. L2's bards had that kind of power void and as much as I liked them in L2, I definitely hope the same doesn't happen in Ashes.
A 6 yard chasm might be untraversable by some heavier individual.
30 yards probably best max range. Can be used in combat and tactics for wonky good stuff especially with people being physical barriers.
50% increased Range when Family, may be balanced.
12 second summon with 12 second CD I guess. Tactical Use.
Extra summoners may Increase base range by 33% each up to 100% [60 yd], then 66% each up to a total of 300% [120 yd]. Can 7 Summoners fit around the circle?
Blood of Individual Required.
Bloodied Weapon useable but summoning multiple people just does damage instead and bits of blood and stuff geysers up with damage distributed evenly [not overpowered just wanted to say and see that lol]. If you have the blood of someone in your inventory then you can separate that out; hence no Friendly Fire. Assuming Friendly Fire is part of the game. . .
Requires 'Identification' though which adds to setup.
Family fulfills this 'blood' requirement since differentiating is ez and there's a bond.
High setup Summon with reagents might take 1 minute to setup then 2 minutes to cast; and use up all of one's Mana (or require extra mana when summoning) or whatever the Resource is.
High Setup Summon would be max 300 yards, up to 1200 yards given 6 other Summoners if target is Naked and Afraid.
Fam would make that 1800 yards and that's just a Summoner Family lol.
Extreme mana requirements can help balance everything in general. I like the idea of Mana being singular digits and there being Exhaustion from generating it quickly, storing it, and from using spells. . . but no one else did lol even though it helps balance and mechanical elaboration quite a bit.
Kicking someone out of Family should take 1 week and 1 week for someone to join a Family. Or something. Maybe longer lol. Choose wisely. 2 weeks/ 2 weeks is pretty good I guess.
Am I crazy, or can you not simply limit the distance at which Family Summon can work, to a few km. If you're in the same "family", we can safely assume you're all part of the same node, play in the same area, etc. So sure, you want to get together, family summon someone if you're kind of far off. But I think if you're able to summon someone from another continent, then they were never family to begin with, and there's some "advantages" being gained from this fast travel.
And if you decided to go exploring, and ended up on the other side of the world, well, too bad, you can't get Family Summoned, it was your choice to go that far.
If this is not done, it will be abused. I'll go travel to the other continent, sell my wares, then family summoned back home to save an hour of walking. Then I'll repeat.
Oh, you have some gear you want to sell on my continent? Equip said gear, empty rest of inventory, and I'll summon you over here to sell it, no problem. Then chill here for a few hours, doing quests, whatever, and we'll have another family member summon you back home.
This was never possible in the first place. Only the family leader can summon (and presumably it's not easy to switch that around or they wouldn't have bothered with the limitation), so it was only ever one-way.
I went to reverify my sources, and... I couldn't find anything. I can therefore agree it's a matter of concern.
I thought this was for science based cities. Are we also going to grant the major appeal of the other city types to family? Or any other system everyone will have access to?
I thought this was for science based cities. Are we also going to grant the major appeal of the other city types to family? Or any other system everyone will have access to?
They are two separate types of teleportation. Family is restricted to well, your family members and science node teleportation is restricted to their vassal nodes, which from the wiki states could be across the sea or on islands.
I don't think anyone really likes Family Summon given friends are never much more than 10 minutes away, and it detracts from Summoners and Science Nodes.
Hurts the RPG and Progression.
Can we get a poll going to see where people are at?
With every other teleport or fast travel available in the game being highly limited (ocean-crossing travel) or a long-term goal AND limited (Science Metropolis), Family Summon has no reason to exist. It is an unreasonable convenience that people will have no reason to ever not grab for.
Pot of Greed got banned because there was no reason for any player to not include it in their deck.
Delete it, or nerf it into being a novelty spell that costs a level to cast obvious sarcasm.
With every other teleport or fast travel available in the game being highly limited (ocean-crossing travel) or a long-term goal AND limited (Science Metropolis), Family Summon has no reason to exist. It is an unreasonable convenience that people will have no reason to ever not grab for.
Pot of Greed got banned because there was no reason for any player to not include it in their deck.
Delete it, or nerf it into being a novelty spell that costs a level to cast obvious sarcasm.
Not everyone has 8 friends who also play their exact same video games. I don't think it's really an unreasonable convenience due to that factor. It needs sensible and extensive limitations, yeah. I don't think anyone is arguing against that.
Design the family system to not be abusable by pick up groups or guilds. Make it very difficult to swap in 'new' family after the initial has formed. Limit range of the teleportation by some reasonable amount that doesn't limit convenience. Only let two assigned members of the family have the ability to do the actual calling. Have significant cool downs. Don't let people carry anything in inventory other than their gear. These are some basic limitations nearly any conversation that discusses the family summon system have brought up, basically every time.
I feel like the design parameters and possible flaws for basic alpha 2 testing are so well known and talked about at this point that it can be expected that IS has a very clear set of things to watch out for and tweak. And hey A2 is a testing phase. If it breaks a part of the game, patch it, and if it can't get 'patched' then delete it. But not testing is just hamstringing what could be a very reasonable compromise that would helps make the game competitive and attractive to casuals. That means more money for IS and more content for hardcore players in the long run.
Much like corruption, I'd find it weird to give up on certain untested systems without actually doing extensive testing. Hard to go 'yeah this has a negative impact on this situation' without background testing data to compare to first.
With every other teleport or fast travel available in the game being highly limited (ocean-crossing travel) or a long-term goal AND limited (Science Metropolis), Family Summon has no reason to exist. It is an unreasonable convenience that people will have no reason to ever not grab for.
Pot of Greed got banned because there was no reason for any player to not include it in their deck.
Delete it, or nerf it into being a novelty spell that costs a level to cast obvious sarcasm.
Not everyone has 8 friends who also play their exact same video games. I don't think it's really an unreasonable convenience due to that factor. It needs sensible and extensive limitations, yeah. I don't think anyone is arguing against that.
Design the family system to not be abusable by pick up groups or guilds. Make it very difficult to swap in 'new' family after the initial has formed. Limit range of the teleportation by some reasonable amount that doesn't limit convenience. Only let two assigned members of the family have the ability to do the actual calling. Have significant cool downs. Don't let people carry anything in inventory other than their gear. These are some basic limitations nearly any conversation that discusses the family summon system have brought up, basically every time.
I feel like the design parameters and possible flaws for basic alpha 2 testing are so well known and talked about at this point that it can be expected that IS has a very clear set of things to watch out for and tweak. And hey A2 is a testing phase. If it breaks a part of the game, patch it, and if it can't get 'patched' then delete it. But not testing is just hamstringing what could be a very reasonable compromise that would helps make the game competitive and attractive to casuals. That means more money for IS and more content for hardcore players in the long run.
Much like corruption, I'd find it weird to give up on certain untested systems without actually doing extensive testing. Hard to go 'yeah this has a negative impact on this situation' without background testing data to compare to first.
im all for testing features, but logically I just dont see this not being used like everything else is in video games these days. Just because you dont have 7 friends who want to join the game to play doesn't mean you can't make more friends in the game or see guilds assign guild members to different families.
Again, test all you want, I will always leave open the door to being wrong. I'm just not seeing it myself.
With every other teleport or fast travel available in the game being highly limited (ocean-crossing travel) or a long-term goal AND limited (Science Metropolis), Family Summon has no reason to exist. It is an unreasonable convenience that people will have no reason to ever not grab for.
Pot of Greed got banned because there was no reason for any player to not include it in their deck.
Delete it, or nerf it into being a novelty spell that costs a level to cast obvious sarcasm.
Not everyone has 8 friends who also play their exact same video games. I don't think it's really an unreasonable convenience due to that factor. It needs sensible and extensive limitations, yeah. I don't think anyone is arguing against that.
Design the family system to not be abusable by pick up groups or guilds. Make it very difficult to swap in 'new' family after the initial has formed. Limit range of the teleportation by some reasonable amount that doesn't limit convenience. Only let two assigned members of the family have the ability to do the actual calling. Have significant cool downs. Don't let people carry anything in inventory other than their gear. These are some basic limitations nearly any conversation that discusses the family summon system have brought up, basically every time.
I feel like the design parameters and possible flaws for basic alpha 2 testing are so well known and talked about at this point that it can be expected that IS has a very clear set of things to watch out for and tweak. And hey A2 is a testing phase. If it breaks a part of the game, patch it, and if it can't get 'patched' then delete it. But not testing is just hamstringing what could be a very reasonable compromise that would helps make the game competitive and attractive to casuals. That means more money for IS and more content for hardcore players in the long run.
Much like corruption, I'd find it weird to give up on certain untested systems without actually doing extensive testing. Hard to go 'yeah this has a negative impact on this situation' without background testing data to compare to first.
im all for testing features, but logically I just dont see this not being used like everything else is in video games these days. Just because you dont have 7 friends who want to join the game to play doesn't mean you can't make more friends in the game or see guilds assign guild members to different families.
Again, test all you want, I will always leave open the door to being wrong. I'm just not seeing it myself.
You making more friends just to optimize the family summon system would be a 'win' wouldn't it? Being able to make new friends is one of the joys of gaming for me personally.
With the 'obvious' restrictions in place to make it less exploitable for pick up groups, what it is really doing is... making it easier to go to content together with your closest in game friends. If you don't have friends you want to do content with regularly, you are not really 'losing out in effectiveness'. You not having regular party members is the real 'loss of your effectiveness' here.
There are arguments why this is bad. I agree with some of those arguments. I just also think they are pretty resolvable with yet more design consideration and limitations than it is via complete removal.
I'm glad your willing to leave the door open for testing. I think that's as reasonable of a reaction as your hesitance about it being exploitable. It is definitely exploitable if done incorrectly and not thought about on a wider scale of the impact on content.
"My concern is that the divide that's present in having a largely non-fast travel based traversal for the world might be a very significant encumbrance for more casual oriented players. We can still maintain the game philosophy in my opinion of mitigating that large group traversal capability as long as we contain the fast travel method to a family type system, where you can't have people quickly dip out of the family and then add new ones and summon them, and the cool down period is quick enough where you can summon large amounts of people." – Steven Sharif
So what's to stop me from make a second account with 5 extra characters in my family so I summon myself around the world map? 15 dollars a month? Many players will spend more on cosmetics..
30min cool down is too short. Made it 8 to 12 hours. My reasoning, is according to Steven (see the quote). Summoning is for the more casual players, it's not for us who are on this form. We're obviously excited and have the free time to read/post here, if your not hard core you're hard core at heart! Causal players only play a few hours a day, one summon a day should be enough. Allowing one every 30 minutes will lead to abuse, with the world being what it is and travel being an important factor, making a mechanic to by pass it is just foolish.
0
Options
akabearMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
There are a wide range of classes, cannot see so many players becoming a summoner so unlikely to be over run with them.
Family Summon is for Family Members, not the Summoner Archetype.
Ah.. did not know that.. all the more cooler!
0
Options
akabearMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Still see the likelihood of factoring sufficent overheads, so can die to return to town, and repair or do what is required to cover the expense rather than walking back!
Comments
And a lot will depend on how important any given member is. If the whole party loses its pve potential completely from just losing one member - yeah, it'll be a bad time. But this would also be a bad party design imo. Yes, let them lose some power but not all. L2's bards had that kind of power void and as much as I liked them in L2, I definitely hope the same doesn't happen in Ashes.
30 yards probably best max range. Can be used in combat and tactics for wonky good stuff especially with people being physical barriers.
50% increased Range when Family, may be balanced.
12 second summon with 12 second CD I guess. Tactical Use.
Extra summoners may Increase base range by 33% each up to 100% [60 yd], then 66% each up to a total of 300% [120 yd]. Can 7 Summoners fit around the circle?
Blood of Individual Required.
Bloodied Weapon useable but summoning multiple people just does damage instead and bits of blood and stuff geysers up with damage distributed evenly [not overpowered just wanted to say and see that lol]. If you have the blood of someone in your inventory then you can separate that out; hence no Friendly Fire. Assuming Friendly Fire is part of the game. . .
Requires 'Identification' though which adds to setup.
Family fulfills this 'blood' requirement since differentiating is ez and there's a bond.
High setup Summon with reagents might take 1 minute to setup then 2 minutes to cast; and use up all of one's Mana (or require extra mana when summoning) or whatever the Resource is.
High Setup Summon would be max 300 yards, up to 1200 yards given 6 other Summoners if target is Naked and Afraid.
Fam would make that 1800 yards and that's just a Summoner Family lol.
Extreme mana requirements can help balance everything in general. I like the idea of Mana being singular digits and there being Exhaustion from generating it quickly, storing it, and from using spells. . . but no one else did lol even though it helps balance and mechanical elaboration quite a bit.
Kicking someone out of Family should take 1 week and 1 week for someone to join a Family. Or something. Maybe longer lol. Choose wisely. 2 weeks/ 2 weeks is pretty good I guess.
This was never possible in the first place. Only the family leader can summon (and presumably it's not easy to switch that around or they wouldn't have bothered with the limitation), so it was only ever one-way.
I went to reverify my sources, and... I couldn't find anything. I can therefore agree it's a matter of concern.
They are two separate types of teleportation. Family is restricted to well, your family members and science node teleportation is restricted to their vassal nodes, which from the wiki states could be across the sea or on islands.
Hurts the RPG and Progression.
Can we get a poll going to see where people are at?
Family Summon is for Family Members, not the Summoner Archetype.
With a enough limitations, I don't think it would be a problem and thus worth deleting.
Pot of Greed got banned because there was no reason for any player to not include it in their deck.
Delete it, or nerf it into being a novelty spell that costs a level to cast obvious sarcasm.
Not everyone has 8 friends who also play their exact same video games. I don't think it's really an unreasonable convenience due to that factor. It needs sensible and extensive limitations, yeah. I don't think anyone is arguing against that.
Design the family system to not be abusable by pick up groups or guilds. Make it very difficult to swap in 'new' family after the initial has formed. Limit range of the teleportation by some reasonable amount that doesn't limit convenience. Only let two assigned members of the family have the ability to do the actual calling. Have significant cool downs. Don't let people carry anything in inventory other than their gear. These are some basic limitations nearly any conversation that discusses the family summon system have brought up, basically every time.
I feel like the design parameters and possible flaws for basic alpha 2 testing are so well known and talked about at this point that it can be expected that IS has a very clear set of things to watch out for and tweak. And hey A2 is a testing phase. If it breaks a part of the game, patch it, and if it can't get 'patched' then delete it. But not testing is just hamstringing what could be a very reasonable compromise that would helps make the game competitive and attractive to casuals. That means more money for IS and more content for hardcore players in the long run.
Much like corruption, I'd find it weird to give up on certain untested systems without actually doing extensive testing. Hard to go 'yeah this has a negative impact on this situation' without background testing data to compare to first.
im all for testing features, but logically I just dont see this not being used like everything else is in video games these days. Just because you dont have 7 friends who want to join the game to play doesn't mean you can't make more friends in the game or see guilds assign guild members to different families.
Again, test all you want, I will always leave open the door to being wrong. I'm just not seeing it myself.
You making more friends just to optimize the family summon system would be a 'win' wouldn't it? Being able to make new friends is one of the joys of gaming for me personally.
With the 'obvious' restrictions in place to make it less exploitable for pick up groups, what it is really doing is... making it easier to go to content together with your closest in game friends. If you don't have friends you want to do content with regularly, you are not really 'losing out in effectiveness'. You not having regular party members is the real 'loss of your effectiveness' here.
There are arguments why this is bad. I agree with some of those arguments. I just also think they are pretty resolvable with yet more design consideration and limitations than it is via complete removal.
I'm glad your willing to leave the door open for testing. I think that's as reasonable of a reaction as your hesitance about it being exploitable. It is definitely exploitable if done incorrectly and not thought about on a wider scale of the impact on content.
So what's to stop me from make a second account with 5 extra characters in my family so I summon myself around the world map? 15 dollars a month? Many players will spend more on cosmetics..
30min cool down is too short. Made it 8 to 12 hours. My reasoning, is according to Steven (see the quote). Summoning is for the more casual players, it's not for us who are on this form. We're obviously excited and have the free time to read/post here, if your not hard core you're hard core at heart! Causal players only play a few hours a day, one summon a day should be enough. Allowing one every 30 minutes will lead to abuse, with the world being what it is and travel being an important factor, making a mechanic to by pass it is just foolish.
Ah.. did not know that.. all the more cooler!