Imagine the no life putting in 1000 hours just to lose the macro and the server to reset for no fault of theirs. Now imagine the guy who loves the game and plays no other and averages 10-20 hours a week due to work life balance. The 10-20 hours guy is likely to show up one day with a deleted server.
I believe he wants a game that leaves emotional scars on people. Still don't know why he thinks reshaping the entire core of this one is the best way to go about it.
Maybe he enjoys people's reaction.
People choose to play on 2b2t in MineCraft, some people enjoy a specific type of challenge of it.
Based on the OP's descriptors, they seem to be the type.
I think he really would like a MMORPG project with his ideas.
As i said, and other said, those are not bad ideas at all, even for MMORPG (except maybe this one that totally destroy work done on characters, while MMORPG is a potential infinite evolution of character... but there could be way to have a "game over" + reboot servers without losing most of character progression)
As the post of Azherae shows, some of his ideas are already a thing in other MMORPG, and it works well. The problem is a video game, of any kind, is a delicate alchemy, where all ingredients interact with others. There is also risk to accumulate too many system on a same point... and he saws this on the exhaustion topic due to exhaust + mana... solution ? remove mana. . . While for most (all people) the solution was "no exhaustion"
From my understanding OP wants the game "AI wars" in Ashes as as an MMORPG.
From a pure concept standpoint of view.
So sum it up.
In AI Wars you start at the edge of an AI controlled map.
The more "land" you take the more aggressive the AI gets and will in turn send more and more powerful units.
So one can have a solid game for many hours only to trip the Ai to early to an even more aggressive state ending with one losing the game.
Only OP wants the AI to start with little land and conquer over time.
Kinda the same but different.
While i would love such a game in a format like ashes, it would be a complete different game.
The Devs would have to spend 10 years redesigning everything to a point where they might as well make a new game entirely.
.
Best of luck in finding a studio willing to develope it.
Ashes wont be it.
Oof, ok... requested 'translation' from Group being placed here for anyone else who has decided to rely on me for whatever reason...
1. Wants an active enemy similar to [Thargoids/FFXI Beastmen/Strategy Game] with the purpose of triggering the human 'band together to win' reaction.
2. Desires a failpoint similar to the above, but no recovery option eventually, no havens, reason given is Testosterone(TM) and Easier Balance?
3. Desires limits on new servers in terms of Alts and max logins.
4. Wants players to indicate their playtime beforehand in order to balance server population distribution OR adapt the server to activity types.
5. Seems to be insisting strategy and manpower should have considerable priority over individuality when it comes to achieving goals.
6. Also seems to want ecological effects to provoke nigh-unkillable or unkillable threats (for my own group, think approx the dragons in Royal Road).
7. Possibly wants more friendly fire mechanics and player Niches? Unclear if it is 'can actually hurt others' or just Monster Hunter Flinch level.
8. Wants the standard 'skills and stats gain by usage' (FFXI weapon Skill Level style, for my people)
9. Suggests that those who are too peaceful or cannot play enough should stick to safe things, presumably with effects similar to Elite Dangerous' Mobius PvE group, but without the ingame enforcement.
Seeks opinions of those who have concerns with the above. Specifics of tuning are not given in the original post, but poster seeks feedback relative to it and may provide them if asked specifics related to tuning.
Parser adjustments will be made for semicolons and spread ellipses.
Wow, I have scattered thoughts that i struggle to put together in a cohesive manner, but this is reminiscent of when I was 10 or 11. If you have a spare 30-50 million you can make a this into a polished game, good luck!
If you believe it can be made into a polished game then what is lacking cohesion about it?
If you don't like the feel of fighting in a World that puts Pressure on You; say so.
It's communication. Requiring effort to read, simply because communication requires effort. If you can tell that much you know the point of it. Get over it.
When a response that tries to act reasonable has this to say: "it's bad" and RANTS ABOUT IRRELEVANT SHIT then they are in all likelihood motivated by Bitterness against the Design.
Listen to a Writing Pro:
WRITING isn't about SHARING WHAT'S IN YOUR HEAD.
It has a PURPOSE or NO ONE WANTS TO READ IT.
If you don't like the Purpose (Game Design) then Say so and Elaborate. This is a place of Discussion.
Said Harvard Writing Pro thought every fucking UNDERGRAD and most GRADS wrote LIKE SHIT.
But of course yall have many reasons you don't want to read it and have yet to actually come out with it from some fear of confrontation.
So fuck off with the English Teacher crap.
Your stylized writing wasn't bad. It was braindead easy to understand.
The content of it was garbage and I understand the sarcastic intent, but the style does nothing to impede.
You're advocacy is essentially Hardcore mode but for a server or seasonal servers, these ideas aren't bad in themselves. PoE and other ARPG games utilize Hardcore systems however these aren't really conducive to the MMO genre, I know classic wow does this when they spin up fresh servers, however these are opt in systems. People want to be able to come home if they need to take a break and see what's new and changed. No one wants to come home and find their house has been deleted. I wouldn't play a game where the retention mechanic is play or we will delete your server.
This is arbitrary and a specific audience. There's a reason most people don't play MMOs and it's not because it's Massively Multiplayer lol.
Bussiness Owners are not under any obligation to give the real player count numbers and there's no litigation threat involved with LYING.
It's in their Monetary Interest to LIE; Shareholders are Protected, NO ONE CAN PROVE OTHERWISE, and they're doing their job of Making MONEY.
So don't start citing numbers absent mindedly in counter-response. MMOs aren't popular.
WoW does nothing. Blizzard does nothing. They are irrelevant; bad game.
Imagine the no life putting in 1000 hours just to lose the macro and the server to reset for no fault of theirs. Now imagine the guy who loves the game and plays no other and averages 10-20 hours a week due to work life balance. The 10-20 hours guy is likely to show up one day with a deleted server.
If you know what you're getting into it's exciting lmao
Wars are not lost in a day. It could take a week of losing ground to Lose. No big surprise there.
And if you think you gained anything putting in 1000 hours in an MMO. . . lol. It's pixels; the devs will change it; and the server will shut down in a year or so. GG.
This is why no one likes MMOs: It tries to give a fake sense of Progress rather than just being a GREAT GAME and Great Experience.
I guess this is an emotionally challenging premise for you; only the unfeeling could enjoy a more mature experience lol
It's just a game at the end of the day.
@Azherae
5. Individuality is not touched. Contribution is your choice and it is significant when it has more significant consequences. You can still be 3x better at something in something particular from your time played, Archetype, sub-Archetype, and Spec.
And I will emphasis:
Soft lock on everything Off-Class; in combination with "XP from Doing";
allows you to progress in something you aren't good at when Circumstances require you to do something Off-Class to Win.
It is more meaningful Progression.
7. It was an example of an extreme and "world threat" that shouldn't be an easy wipe for the Server but create a hostile zone for Node(s) due to simple territorial behavior.
7. Flinch and Friendly Fire both; it can be a conservative % of Friendly Fire and tiered CC, but an often liberal % of friendly fire would be good imo.
9. Those that don't play much can still be very useful in combat. Someone can put in 9 hrs a day on crafting, gathering et cetera if they want. There are different kinds of people/ player.
I haven't played much of any video game. They are interesting from a design and engineering point of view or social/ team/ leadership point of view, but they are all lacking too much for me to get much out of it otherwise.
So I often think about how games and reality works more than play them.
Also it's cost prohibitive for me.
@Azherae
5. Individuality is not touched. Contribution is your choice and it is significant when it has more significant consequences. You can still be 3x better at something in something particular from your time played, Archetype, sub-Archetype, and Spec.
And I will emphasis:
Soft lock on everything Off-Class; in combination with "XP from Doing";
allows you to progress in something you aren't good at when Circumstances require you to do something Off-Class to Win.
It is more meaningful Progression.
7. It was an example of an extreme and "world threat" that shouldn't be an easy wipe for the Server but create a hostile zone for Node(s) due to simple territorial behavior.
7. Flinch and Friendly Fire both; it can be a conservative % of Friendly Fire and tiered CC, but an often liberal % of friendly fire would be good imo.
9. Those that don't play much can still be very useful in combat. Someone can put in 9 hrs a day on crafting, gathering et cetera if they want. There are different kinds of people/ player.
Otherwise it is a good synopsis.
For my clarity then, since point 5 as I saw it was 'strategy and manpower has PRIORITY over individuality', would you say that they are even, or that individuality has the higher influence?
I'm going to assume 6 was the 'Extreme world threat', sorry that I couldn't give more context, if you haven't read Legendary Moonlight Sculptor, the reference won't make any sense, but rest assured that my group almost certainly understood what you meant. Grass Porridge!
I am unsure on what the clarification about point 9 was? I may have again made it less clear to others by using a reference. Elite Dangerous has 'private groups' that a player can log into at any time, separate from their Open World/Galaxy option, and there is a HUGE PvE only group who uses this option to avoid the PvP players. You can let me know if you would expect those types of people to behave differently in your design, or just not join the game at all because it is too hardcore for them.
I'm starting to realize that he is a disgruntled Crowfall player.
I'm a disgruntled Crowfall player. I paid 60 bucks for that game because a friend convinced me. I lasted a number of days before quitting. It was worse than New World. WORSE THAN NEW WORLD THINK ABOUT THAT. HOLY FUCK THAT GAME BLEW. JESUS CHRIST. WHAT AN ABSOLUTE DOG SHIT GAME. I KNEW IT TOO, I KNEW WHEN I WAS BUYING IT THAT IT WASN'T GOOD. Desperation man, it got me.
And who are you Sapiverenus lol. It's like you were shot out of a cannon and landed here ready to just piss everyone off. lol shit's funny.
I'm starting to realize that he is a disgruntled Crowfall player.
I'm a disgruntled Crowfall player. I paid 60 bucks for that game because a friend convinced me. I lasted a number of days before quitting. It was worse than New World. WORSE THAN NEW WORLD THINK ABOUT THAT. HOLY FUCK THAT GAME BLEW. JESUS CHRIST. WHAT AN ABSOLUTE DOG SHIT GAME. I KNEW IT TOO, I KNEW WHEN I WAS BUYING IT THAT IT WASN'T GOOD. Desperation man, it got me.
And who are you Sapiverenus lol. It's like you were shot out of a cannon and landed here ready to just piss everyone off. lol shit's funny.
im sorry for your loss. I to have taken that kind of horrible deal. Guess what I bought? The Silver founder's pack for Archeage. 150 down the drain.
I don't remember, but knowing me I probably bought a high tier founder's pack for Archeage too. Waste of money ultimately, but I felt like I got at least some of my money's worth. The feeling of betrayal though once they went from mega p2w to mega extreme p2w. Don't think I've had that feeling replicated by any other game.
@Azherae
5. I guess an elaboration of both.
6. I wanted to assuage fear that server wipes would be sudden and easy if I had my way.
9. Players that don't play often can partake in hardcore combat still and be useful.
For those not wanting the stress, they can simply login and be near or in their Node and go join up with others.
I can see automatic repositioning being apart of the game. If the Node is wiped while you logged, you may be at the other Node. If you logged on a road, you may login somewhere along the road within a certain range. If you logged away from the road, you may login somewhere between that wilderness spot and the road.
I'd prefer this give some indication that you're in the Menu choosing though; like a slight divine luminescence in the sky above where you logged and are choosing, that you'd have to look for to notice --> which then moves quickly to where you want to spawn once chosen.
And you have a 'ghost walk' for the first 5 seconds after choosing your login spot with some indications of your ghost walk to other players; ghost walk would have 50% MS boost or something.
All in All I think Nodes and Guilds should serve as the shield. Vote for a good Mayor lol
@Okeydoke
Seems like it has some decent enough mechanics though.
Strange fractured world concept lol.
The way it introduces players to the game seems a bit poor and there's a severe lack of person to person 'friction' which has a lot to do with layout. The way Ashes plans to implement Nodes solve a lot of problems
It's pretty low population in general as well.
Map lag kind of annoying but the simple map seems fine to me. The design choice is questionable but a lack of detailed information is fine.
Maps are optional in general; though having to run around from NPC to NPC at level 1 is just boring af. It taking up the whole screen is annoying though.
If instead you had to pull the map out and zoom in, or hold it in your hand to see it while running it would be the same thing but better I guess. First person could be reserved for that specifically even.
I'm not a fan of menus and screen clutter at all and the implementations need work in Crowfall.
Its timing, as explained by LazyPeon, was not good at all. So lack of players makes sense.
I didn't play Crowfall long enough to even comment on it. (Other than ripping it to shreds a couple posts ago lol)
Game just sucked. Like almost everything. Shallow, soulless, buggy. Spammy aoe combat. Boring world. Boring everything.
Anyways with that out of the way @Sapiverenus, may I ask why you don't consider the 'Failure of a Node', particularly a well built up one, to be the same or good enough as a substitute?
Basically, why does the server itself have to fail? Shouldn't a Metropolis or even City Node falling into ruin (perhaps due to an event as you suggest) be just about the same? The player doesn't lose their personal progression, true, but depending on how the game is built, Personal Progression may not be 'as much' of a character's influence or power at all, particularly since gear also degrades.
I haven't played much of any video game. They are interesting from a design and engineering point of view or social/ team/ leadership point of view, but they are all lacking too much for me to get much out of it otherwise.
So I often think about how games and reality works more than play them.
Also it's cost prohibitive for me.
Everything sounds great on paper. However, ultra-difficult, zero-convenience style gameplay with massive failure mechanics doesn't bode well in the MMORPG genre. It may be something ideal for like a custom server survival multiplayer game. I played a multifaction PVP survival game with a fairly similar level of difficulty and a server win/reset factor. It was fun, but it failed unfortunately.
Comments
People choose to play on 2b2t in MineCraft, some people enjoy a specific type of challenge of it.
Based on the OP's descriptors, they seem to be the type.
I think he really would like a MMORPG project with his ideas.
As i said, and other said, those are not bad ideas at all, even for MMORPG (except maybe this one that totally destroy work done on characters, while MMORPG is a potential infinite evolution of character... but there could be way to have a "game over" + reboot servers without losing most of character progression)
As the post of Azherae shows, some of his ideas are already a thing in other MMORPG, and it works well. The problem is a video game, of any kind, is a delicate alchemy, where all ingredients interact with others. There is also risk to accumulate too many system on a same point... and he saws this on the exhaustion topic due to exhaust + mana... solution ? remove mana. . . While for most (all people) the solution was "no exhaustion"
From a pure concept standpoint of view.
So sum it up.
In AI Wars you start at the edge of an AI controlled map.
The more "land" you take the more aggressive the AI gets and will in turn send more and more powerful units.
So one can have a solid game for many hours only to trip the Ai to early to an even more aggressive state ending with one losing the game.
Only OP wants the AI to start with little land and conquer over time.
Kinda the same but different.
While i would love such a game in a format like ashes, it would be a complete different game.
The Devs would have to spend 10 years redesigning everything to a point where they might as well make a new game entirely.
.
Best of luck in finding a studio willing to develope it.
Ashes wont be it.
Thank you for the translation
If you believe it can be made into a polished game then what is lacking cohesion about it?
If you don't like the feel of fighting in a World that puts Pressure on You; say so.
I can venture to understand the displeasure with reading dynamic text but it doesn't place fault on the writing lol.
Emphasis is placed where it is as part of the pacing and EMPHASIS of it and I don't think it warrants much discussion.
Rigid monotony isn't "more legible" it's just drained of all life.
It's communication. Requiring effort to read, simply because communication requires effort. If you can tell that much you know the point of it. Get over it.
When a response that tries to act reasonable has this to say: "it's bad" and RANTS ABOUT IRRELEVANT SHIT then they are in all likelihood motivated by Bitterness against the Design.
Listen to a Writing Pro:
WRITING isn't about SHARING WHAT'S IN YOUR HEAD.
It has a PURPOSE or NO ONE WANTS TO READ IT.
If you don't like the Purpose (Game Design) then Say so and Elaborate. This is a place of Discussion.
Said Harvard Writing Pro thought every fucking UNDERGRAD and most GRADS wrote LIKE SHIT.
But of course yall have many reasons you don't want to read it and have yet to actually come out with it from some fear of confrontation.
So fuck off with the English Teacher crap.
Your stylized writing wasn't bad. It was braindead easy to understand.
The content of it was garbage and I understand the sarcastic intent, but the style does nothing to impede.
This is arbitrary and a specific audience. There's a reason most people don't play MMOs and it's not because it's Massively Multiplayer lol.
It's in their Monetary Interest to LIE; Shareholders are Protected, NO ONE CAN PROVE OTHERWISE, and they're doing their job of Making MONEY.
WoW does nothing. Blizzard does nothing. They are irrelevant; bad game.
If you know what you're getting into it's exciting lmao
Wars are not lost in a day. It could take a week of losing ground to Lose. No big surprise there.
And if you think you gained anything putting in 1000 hours in an MMO. . . lol. It's pixels; the devs will change it; and the server will shut down in a year or so. GG.
This is why no one likes MMOs: It tries to give a fake sense of Progress rather than just being a GREAT GAME and Great Experience.
"Emotional Scars" or "Growing Up"? Obvious answer to anyone honest with themself and others.
I guess this is an emotionally challenging premise for you; only the unfeeling could enjoy a more mature experience lol
It's just a game at the end of the day.
5. Individuality is not touched. Contribution is your choice and it is significant when it has more significant consequences. You can still be 3x better at something in something particular from your time played, Archetype, sub-Archetype, and Spec.
And I will emphasis:
Soft lock on everything Off-Class; in combination with "XP from Doing";
allows you to progress in something you aren't good at when Circumstances require you to do something Off-Class to Win.
It is more meaningful Progression.
7. It was an example of an extreme and "world threat" that shouldn't be an easy wipe for the Server but create a hostile zone for Node(s) due to simple territorial behavior.
7. Flinch and Friendly Fire both; it can be a conservative % of Friendly Fire and tiered CC, but an often liberal % of friendly fire would be good imo.
9. Those that don't play much can still be very useful in combat. Someone can put in 9 hrs a day on crafting, gathering et cetera if they want. There are different kinds of people/ player.
Otherwise it is a good synopsis.
I don't want to get too much into criticism of Intrepid lol. Maybe the project will accelerate after switching to UE5.
So I often think about how games and reality works more than play them.
Also it's cost prohibitive for me.
Crowfall looks like crap
For my clarity then, since point 5 as I saw it was 'strategy and manpower has PRIORITY over individuality', would you say that they are even, or that individuality has the higher influence?
I'm going to assume 6 was the 'Extreme world threat', sorry that I couldn't give more context, if you haven't read Legendary Moonlight Sculptor, the reference won't make any sense, but rest assured that my group almost certainly understood what you meant. Grass Porridge!
I am unsure on what the clarification about point 9 was? I may have again made it less clear to others by using a reference. Elite Dangerous has 'private groups' that a player can log into at any time, separate from their Open World/Galaxy option, and there is a HUGE PvE only group who uses this option to avoid the PvP players. You can let me know if you would expect those types of people to behave differently in your design, or just not join the game at all because it is too hardcore for them.
I'm a disgruntled Crowfall player. I paid 60 bucks for that game because a friend convinced me. I lasted a number of days before quitting. It was worse than New World. WORSE THAN NEW WORLD THINK ABOUT THAT. HOLY FUCK THAT GAME BLEW. JESUS CHRIST. WHAT AN ABSOLUTE DOG SHIT GAME. I KNEW IT TOO, I KNEW WHEN I WAS BUYING IT THAT IT WASN'T GOOD. Desperation man, it got me.
And who are you Sapiverenus lol. It's like you were shot out of a cannon and landed here ready to just piss everyone off. lol shit's funny.
im sorry for your loss. I to have taken that kind of horrible deal. Guess what I bought? The Silver founder's pack for Archeage. 150 down the drain.
5. I guess an elaboration of both.
6. I wanted to assuage fear that server wipes would be sudden and easy if I had my way.
9. Players that don't play often can partake in hardcore combat still and be useful.
For those not wanting the stress, they can simply login and be near or in their Node and go join up with others.
I can see automatic repositioning being apart of the game. If the Node is wiped while you logged, you may be at the other Node. If you logged on a road, you may login somewhere along the road within a certain range. If you logged away from the road, you may login somewhere between that wilderness spot and the road.
I'd prefer this give some indication that you're in the Menu choosing though; like a slight divine luminescence in the sky above where you logged and are choosing, that you'd have to look for to notice --> which then moves quickly to where you want to spawn once chosen.
And you have a 'ghost walk' for the first 5 seconds after choosing your login spot with some indications of your ghost walk to other players; ghost walk would have 50% MS boost or something.
All in All I think Nodes and Guilds should serve as the shield. Vote for a good Mayor lol
lol
roflmao
Seems like it has some decent enough mechanics though.
Strange fractured world concept lol.
The way it introduces players to the game seems a bit poor and there's a severe lack of person to person 'friction' which has a lot to do with layout. The way Ashes plans to implement Nodes solve a lot of problems
It's pretty low population in general as well.
Map lag kind of annoying but the simple map seems fine to me. The design choice is questionable but a lack of detailed information is fine.
Maps are optional in general; though having to run around from NPC to NPC at level 1 is just boring af. It taking up the whole screen is annoying though.
If instead you had to pull the map out and zoom in, or hold it in your hand to see it while running it would be the same thing but better I guess. First person could be reserved for that specifically even.
I'm not a fan of menus and screen clutter at all and the implementations need work in Crowfall.
Its timing, as explained by LazyPeon, was not good at all. So lack of players makes sense.
Game just sucked. Like almost everything. Shallow, soulless, buggy. Spammy aoe combat. Boring world. Boring everything.
Basically, why does the server itself have to fail? Shouldn't a Metropolis or even City Node falling into ruin (perhaps due to an event as you suggest) be just about the same? The player doesn't lose their personal progression, true, but depending on how the game is built, Personal Progression may not be 'as much' of a character's influence or power at all, particularly since gear also degrades.
Everything sounds great on paper. However, ultra-difficult, zero-convenience style gameplay with massive failure mechanics doesn't bode well in the MMORPG genre. It may be something ideal for like a custom server survival multiplayer game. I played a multifaction PVP survival game with a fairly similar level of difficulty and a server win/reset factor. It was fun, but it failed unfortunately.