Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Leveling Only PvP
Zazariel
Member
Will the leveling system be compatible with players dedicated to PvP activities?
Hello and welcome on this thread.
Here is a summary of the different answers already given to the question. This will allow you to contribute without having to reread everything :
Hello and welcome on this thread.
Here is a summary of the different answers already given to the question. This will allow you to contribute without having to reread everything :
The direct answer is no! It will not be possible to do only PvP to reach the Max level.
It's a unique world with its own progression system. This will require the players to vary the activities in order to progress his character as well as his Node. This is a PvX game!
Players will still be able to activate the PvP mode at any time in the game, but it will not be a viable method of progression to level up.
PvP during leveling will be a "choice" or an approach for players. In order to determine which group will be able to take advantage of a quest, farm or dungeon area.
At each Soft Cap during leveling, leveling up will require leveling up the Node. This will be good for PvP activities because PvE activities do not allow leveling up anymore.
Small Disclaimer:
As the game is in the Alpha one testing phase, all answers and sayings in this thread may change and are not indicative of the state of the game. Most of the answers are in the form of assumptions or interpretations. Thanks
2
Comments
its not designed to be.
Yes. It has been clearly stated dozens of times that this isn't a design philosophy that AoC is looking to embrace.
The towers would provide some protection or benefits to the node.
These towers could be for level 15, 30 and 45 players.
Just to make sure you understand, the game does promote and allow for pvp at many opportunities, it just doesn't let you level your character from pvp in any viable sense.
Best advice i can give is join a guild focused on pvp and you will have plenty of action out there in the world.
Games like that do exist, this isn't one of them though.
War doesn't wait until Max. Yiu can join wars while leveling. Its just not majorly rewarding to do so.
PvP is mostly regressive/destructive by Design in Ashes. Summed up, all participants will have lost progress in the end, not gained it.
PvE Builds the World/Progress
PvP destroys the World/Progress.
It really follows the EvE design philosophy in that regard where PvP generally is a net loss
If you solely want to pvp, then ashes won't be for you. You will be expected to do major amounts of pve content as pvp and pve is geavily intertwined
But extra XP from bashing in PvP sounds great. Maybe a bit less XP on kill but a bit extra XP from bashing people sounds good.
It lends itself to Duels as well.
Aside from the points made by Warth, here is the reason that the answer is no.
PvP is everywhere in Ashes. Dying in PvP is similar to dying in PvE as you take death penalty. Even though that penalty is half if you were fighting in PvP, you still take half penalty. That includes the experience debt.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Player_death
To me it looks like trying to gain experience purely in PvP is going to result in possibly insurmountable experience debt. Even if you do manage to level, the grind is going to be nuts. This is a game that is already intended to take 45 days at 4-6 hours playtime a day to hit max level. Trying to do this only in PvP while dying against the faster progressing superior geared PvE nerds sounds like something that only the most extreme gaming masochist would do.
Also FYI, while it looks like arena won't have experience debt it does not look like that system will work for leveling to me. Even if it does grant XP. Which we haven't been told as far as I know.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Arenas
I don't understand this either.
Why force PvP players to level up doing PvE?
Feels like a bad design.
PvX means the possibility to do both.
But when leveling up... they say no, you will be a PvE player for at least 45 days, but longer if you do that without passion, dragging your feet through PvE content.
That's true!
So much discussion about how corruption protects made me forget that one can chose to fight.
They socially manipulated my mind!
They could have their own class in game, mind controllers.
So the PvP activity of fighting for resources will be present in the game. I think that's a very good point!
Now I wonder what other PvsP or PvX activity will be present during the adventure and what will be their rewards/consequences?
To clarify another point, I have absolutely nothing against progressing efficiently through quests or bashing. I just wonder if the PvP alternative can also fill the sometimes redundant leveling phases.
This is a point where I would like to be enlightened. What is the reason for making pvp unprofitable and destroying world progression?
You'll have enough pvp progression in the game. There'll be seasonal ladders in arenas, node/castle sieges, bounty hunting and caravan raiding - all of those will have some form of reward and will progress your character and its reputation on the server.
There's also the open seas, guild/node wars and general flagging rules around boss fights, so in a way there's way more pvp features in the game, but they will all be interconnected with pve in some way.
World progression?
Resouces will be scarce they say.
I assume high tier resources will be scarce enough that some will be tempted to siege other cities for them or fallback to lower tier gear and mounts.
Any death, PvP or PvE causes durability loss on gear and mounts.
A legendary weapon you cannot repair is a dead weapon.
@Zazariel for one very simple reason really. Because thats the Design Choice Intrepid made. Whether you agree with it or not really doesnt matter. Thats just how it is.
PvE Generates Progress. You get materials, you craft items, you build up Nodes.
PvP doesnt generate anything. It destroys progress.
What is really created through PvP? Nothing. You merely steal stuff from somebody else or make sure that you get the stuff instead of somebody else.
This is where you are confused. Pvp will be very, very profitable, but that is because PvE has value. When you destroy someones caravan you get a good chunk of what they were escorting. When you kill a player you get some of their materials and take over their farming location if they have one. When you enter a Battleground you are in a high value resource area be it farming monsters or gathering nodes, You fight others to attain such things.
The reason PvP destroys world progression in some parts is so that world progression, (through PvE) can begin in other parts. (I.E. You live in a Node near a Smouldering mountain and want to progress the node to a higher tier to fight the dragon sleeping in the mountain. However because there is a metropolis node nearby you can't, so you go to war with that node and if you win you can loot their player warehouses and your node can now progress to fighting that supposed sleeping dragon)
You PvP to fight for the resources and content. You PvE to experience the content.
With that out of the way, as a pvp player I am fully aware of the subjectivity inherent within the above statements and prescribe to a 'different strokes for different folks' mentality. I find that having both options to lvl through pvp and pve is by far the best approach, leaving the rest to the player. Some will stick to one, others will mix and match, it's simply the most inclusive and frankly best approach in my opinion.
I know the devs are wildstar fans and I remain hopeful they come to recognize the merits in such an approach and tweak things accordingly.
You left because those games changed or because they didn't? Or because you wanted a change?
You want this game to be like the other ones you left or different?
I thought Steven clearly intends to have an "end-game" cycle of:
> We PvP - accumulate exp debt
> We PvE - clear that exp debt
Which is not compatible with PvP to clear the exp debt unless you limit it to a "no exp loss" PvP activity?
You could create an arena for it, but then we're truly separating PvE gameplay from PvP gameplay and I can't call that PvX
I had to check this out.
The wiki states that experience can be gained via PvP too
Exploration might be something which can give experience constantly, if there will be always something new to explore
The diminishing returns on pvp are meant to stop win trading and other activities used in games that have exp gains for pvp actions. So, as many others previously pointed out, you will gain some progression from sanctioned pvp activities, less so in the open world.
I didn't realize that PvsX had "mandatory" PvE AND PvP phases, which again is a very comforting point! Thx Nikr
A bit contradictory. PvP seems viable in case of victory, theft or embargo on a resource.
I understand after the idea that alternating pve phases to prepare for pvp is the studio's concept. At least I know what to expect and then I will make my decision to invest in it or not.
Right now, during the leveling phase, I'm still not clear on what activities will alternate phases. Even if the pvp makes the player's progression "regress", it must have a profitable counter effect?
Otherwise, nobody will do the pvp activities during the leveling. It will be, once again, a simple race to the max level! Except for a niche community of wise players who know how to appreciate a video game and enjoy the adventure it offers.
Totally agree. The goal again is to diversify the activities during the leveling. I now understand that the term PvX means both PvE and PvP (I thought PvsX means Pvp in numerical inferiority) so diverse activities, I'm for it.
But PvP must have a meaning, a profit, even if it kills the efficient progression to the max level, it must be rewarded on other points!
A very reassuring point then. But again, will these activities be available during the leveling phase?
It's a concept I totally support. But it's end-game content, i'm asking about leveling content.
Again, this is the end-game cycle. And I support that concept. But what about the leveling phase?
I didn't quite understand some of the points. Sanctioned pvp? And why less in the open world?
Will there be PVP quests ? or will it be more organic PVP