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Fix For Corruption "cheasing/ gaming the system"

SettiteSettite Member
in General Discussion
So as it stands now, this is an interaction I imaging happening which would be an issue:

*I kill green to get loot.
*I am now red so I have friends or guild mates kill me so a bounty hunter doesn't kill me and take loot.
*Friend/guildmate gives loot back to me and anything else I may dropped once I'm back green.
*rinse wash and repeat, thus "gaming" the system.

As it stands now I believe this will be an issue. Some people will say, well what if your friend decides not to give back your stuff, however I have a tight knit gaming group and we would be willing do that for each other (not that I'd do it in the first place), however its very within the realm of possibility would I want a resource that I myself can't collect but I see someone else collecting it. Maybe something like mithril ore or something.

The solutions I offer are these:

*friends and guild mates can't reduce your corruption nor take drops from you, however if they kill you then ud still drop drops so if there's a random Joe passing by they could claim it.

*if you delete a player as friend there is a 24 hr cooldown before you can re-add them.
*if you leave a guild there is a 24hr cooldown before you can rejoin it.

(This last option may be a bit much)
*if you're red, no friends or guildmates would show up on your mini and or world map.


These are just some general thoughts. Feedback? I imagine iv missed some things so let's discuss, should your be free to do so.

Comments

  • maouwmaouw Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Hullo hullo,

    iirc, this is part of intended gameplay.
    Being killed by your friend still punishes you with exp debt - but yes, you get to keep the loot.
    I wish I were deep and tragic
  • WarthWarth Member, Alpha Two
    *friends and guild mates can't reduce your corruption nor take drops from you, however if they kill you then ud still drop drops so if there's a random Joe passing by they could claim it.

    Doesn't work as the game can't determine who your friend is, unless you are dumb enough to be friends or in a guild with them.
    *if you delete a player as friend there is a 24 hr cooldown before you can re-add them.
    *if you leave a guild there is a 24hr cooldown before you can rejoin it.

    Doesn't matter as you have no incentive to share it with them in the first place.
    *if you're red, no friends or guildmates would show up on your mini and or world map.

    Doesnt matter either with voice - com
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    You still suffer death penalties if your friends kill you, so you're not really "gaming" the system.

    But yes, I completely support the suggestion of your friends/party/guild/alliance/raid-mates not being able to even attack you when you're red. This would also match the flagging rules for that kind of interaction
    A player may not flag on members of the same party, raid, guild or alliance.
  • SettiteSettite Member
    maouw wrote: »
    Hullo hullo,

    iirc, this is part of intended gameplay.
    Being killed by your friend still punishes you with exp debt - but yes, you get to keep the loot.

    I'd argue xp debt would mean nothing If your max level since it's already been stated that you can't b deleveled because of it. I'm fine with it if is left this way, however it will suck for gatherers since they will become the main targets in my opinion.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Settite wrote: »
    maouw wrote: »
    Hullo hullo,

    iirc, this is part of intended gameplay.
    Being killed by your friend still punishes you with exp debt - but yes, you get to keep the loot.

    I'd argue xp debt would mean nothing If your max level since it's already been stated that you can't b deleveled because of it. I'm fine with it if is left this way, however it will suck for gatherers since they will become the main targets in my opinion.

    "Experience debt" is just the name of a debuff.

    That debuff lowers your mana and HP, your skills and stats, your proficiency with the gear you are using, and lowers the droprate of mobs you kill.

    That is the real penalty. The experience part of that is simply the mechanism by which you remove this debuff.
  • SettiteSettite Member
    NiKr wrote: »
    You still suffer death penalties if your friends kill you, so you're not really "gaming" the system.

    But yes, I completely support the suggestion of your friends/party/guild/alliance/raid-mates not being able to even attack you when you're red. This would also match the flagging rules for that kind of interaction
    A player may not flag on members of the same party, raid, guild or alliance.

    I believe the other penalties would be xp debt and gear degradation. (Correct me if I'm wrong. ) at max level the xp won't matter since you can't be deleveled and if your taking something that's worth it when killing another then you may just make more than the cost of repairs. Though depending on how much gear degradation you suffer upon death, it could be enough of a deterant.
  • SettiteSettite Member
    Noaani wrote: »
    Settite wrote: »
    maouw wrote: »
    Hullo hullo,

    iirc, this is part of intended gameplay.
    Being killed by your friend still punishes you with exp debt - but yes, you get to keep the loot.

    I'd argue xp debt would mean nothing If your max level since it's already been stated that you can't b deleveled because of it. I'm fine with it if is left this way, however it will suck for gatherers since they will become the main targets in my opinion.

    "Experience debt" is just the name of a debuff.

    That debuff lowers your mana and HP, your skills and stats, your proficiency with the gear you are using, and lowers the droprate of mobs you kill.

    That is the real penalty. The experience part of that is simply the mechanism by which you remove this debuff.

    Oo gotya gotya, though it's only a true penalty if you have to endure it for long so I still hope they prevent friends/guildmates from lowering your corruption.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Settite wrote: »
    I'd argue xp debt would mean nothing If your max level since it's already been stated that you can't b deleveled because of it. I'm fine with it if is left this way, however it will suck for gatherers since they will become the main targets in my opinion.
    You still go down in your effectiveness and suffer lower mob drop rates. And I could even see them having lvl 50 adding a fair bit of stats and not having an overflow of XP on it (i.e. you can't go to lvl50 100% XP). So if you die at lvl50 - you lose a fair bit of stats. And leveling at that stage should still take a few hours for those % that you'll lose as a red.

    In other words, if you have a group of friends - make them help you remove your corruption through mob grind rather than just kill you.
  • SettiteSettite Member
    NiKr wrote: »
    Settite wrote: »
    I'd argue xp debt would mean nothing If your max level since it's already been stated that you can't b deleveled because of it. I'm fine with it if is left this way, however it will suck for gatherers since they will become the main targets in my opinion.
    You still go down in your effectiveness and suffer lower mob drop rates. And I could even see them having lvl 50 adding a fair bit of stats and not having an overflow of XP on it (i.e. you can't go to lvl50 100% XP). So if you die at lvl50 - you lose a fair bit of stats. And leveling at that stage should still take a few hours for those % that you'll lose as a red.

    In other words, if you have a group of friends - make them help you remove your corruption through mob grind rather than just kill you.

    That'd be reasonable. I suppose I'm not the biggest fan of just dying to rid yourself of corruption. I like the idea of questing to get rid of it, or even having a timer aswell that only ticks down when you're not in a safe place.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Settite wrote: »
    I suppose I'm not the biggest fan of just dying to rid yourself of corruption. I like the idea of questing to get rid of it, or even having a timer as well that only ticks down when you're not in a safe place.
    I mean, gaining XP is the other way to remove your corruption. Doing quests, farming mobs, gaining XP in any other possible ways will remove some part of your corruption. Which is why I said you should ask your friends to protect you while you get that XP.
  • WarthWarth Member, Alpha Two
    edited September 2022
    NiKr wrote: »
    Settite wrote: »
    I'd argue xp debt would mean nothing If your max level since it's already been stated that you can't b deleveled because of it. I'm fine with it if is left this way, however it will suck for gatherers since they will become the main targets in my opinion.
    You still go down in your effectiveness and suffer lower mob drop rates. And I could even see them having lvl 50 adding a fair bit of stats and not having an overflow of XP on it (i.e. you can't go to lvl50 100% XP). So if you die at lvl50 - you lose a fair bit of stats. And leveling at that stage should still take a few hours for those % that you'll lose as a red.

    In other words, if you have a group of friends - make them help you remove your corruption through mob grind rather than just kill you.

    Look at this in the context of PvE.
    Dying to a boss once and losing a significant amount of your strength won't work if you want to have challenging pve content in the game

    @NiKr
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Warth wrote: »
    Look at this in the context of PvE.
    Dying to a boss once and losing a significant amount of your strength won't work if you want to have challenging pve content in the game
    I mean, I'm a hardcore maniac who'd just see that as a challenge :D I've deleveled below gear grades in L2 couuuuntless times and had to use my previous stuff just to get back up. To me that was fun and was the main challenge :)

    And as I see it, it would also work well as a "world boss contestant filter". Say you have a super strong boss and several guilds who want to farm it. And those guilds decide not to partake in wars against each other. Outside of the obvious "fuck up their farm by just being present to trigger the anti-zerg mechanics" action, the first farmers wiping and "deleveling" would give some time to the other groups to attempt the boss, while the og raid levels back up. And those who manage to farm the boss first would really deserve the loot.

    Alternatively you could have a religious buff that gives you a "buffer" of some %s when you go out farming shit. And if you go corrupt - the buff goes away, which would lead to you immediately deleveling in case of death. And this kind of mechanic would be reminiscent of holy crusades (well, outside of the obvious slaughtering of countless peoples during said crusades :D ).
  • BaSkA_9x2BaSkA_9x2 Member, Alpha Two
    Settite wrote: »
    So as it stands now, this is an interaction I imaging happening which would be an issue:

    *I kill green to get loot.
    *I am now red so I have friends or guild mates kill me so a bounty hunter doesn't kill me and take loot.
    *Friend/guildmate gives loot back to me and anything else I may dropped once I'm back green.
    *rinse wash and repeat, thus "gaming" the system.

    As it stands now I believe this will be an issue.

    The solutions I offer are these:

    *friends and guild mates can't reduce your corruption nor take drops from you, however if they kill you then ud still drop drops so if there's a random Joe passing by they could claim it.

    *if you delete a player as friend there is a 24 hr cooldown before you can re-add them.
    *if you leave a guild there is a 24hr cooldown before you can rejoin it.

    (This last option may be a bit much)
    *if you're red, no friends or guildmates would show up on your mini and or world map.

    These are just some general thoughts. Feedback? I imagine iv missed some things so let's discuss, should your be free to do so.

    I believe you missed some important points:
    1. You only get 50% of the green player's loot which might be randomized, nobody really knows yet, but regardless of that you might get X gold worth of resources from the green player but the cost to repair your gear after being killed by your friends might be 10 times that. It's risk vs. reward.
    2. The green player most likely had a choice to remain green, I imagine you'll more often than not be able to fight back in time to go purple, so that was his choice (and yours). I feel like if someone doesn't fight back, it's very likely that they have nothing worth fighting for and would rather see you become red.
    3. The system incentivizes PvP, so if you have a lot of resources that will drop on death, you should always fight back unless you have friends around to kill the person going red.

    In any case, I believe that ways to "game" the system will be found and it'll need be balanced/fixed, I think it's very likely that they'll heavily increase the gear degradation for being killed as a red.
    🎶Galo é Galo o resto é bosta🎶
  • insomniainsomnia Member
    I think repairing gear costs recourses, or there was talk about it. So it could even be a pain to repair gear. then add in, will 1 death remove the entire penalty?

    How about adding in, you can't trade with the person that killed you, you killed for x amount of time? Of course, people could just get a 3rd player to help them. Then have a reduced time on when the dropped items can be traded. But that could also be a pain, for all the people, not trying to exploit
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