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Please reconsider adding controller support on launch

CodedCoded Member
in General Discussion
You arent using steam so cant even conveniently set up controls, have to do a song and a dance with external programs....

Its 2022. There is no reason your game cannot have controller support. Look at FFXIV and Lost Ark.

Comments

  • bloodprophetbloodprophet Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    No.
    PC will always be better then console. Look at FFXIV.
    Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    bloodprophet wrote: »
    No.
    PC will always be better then console. Look at FFXIV.

    I'm not sure what the connection between these two things is?

    I know we've had this discussion before too, and I understand that many people have very strong opinions on this subject, but the connections made then weren't 'real'. Controller support does not need to innately change anything about a game developed for PC mouse and keyboard use.
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  • bloodprophetbloodprophet Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    During the alpha 1 there were several people that rebound the key for controller use.
    Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    bloodprophet wrote: »
    During the alpha 1 there were several people that rebound the key for controller use.

    Yes, and I was one of those people, but controller support does offer a few more specific things that would not interfere with any of the overall design, and it would prevent any use of third party software or anything that might allow the player to use Macros or cheats.

    When done the other way, you have to rely on the player 'choosing not to use any of the options that could lead to macro-ing or things that they don't want players to be able to do with one button'.

    All it requires is 'make analog stick do the correct things with the camera' (should already be easy if not basically default) and 'offer a menu with a ton of keybinds and have the keybinds accept two-button inputs'.

    Maybe one more thing for 'hotbar swapping' just to make it bearable, but it's VERY likely this will work anyway because they don't seem to have a problem with people who use 20-button MMO-mouse.

    So it's better if Intrepid implements it.
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  • insomniainsomnia Member
    isn't controllers normaly worse for mmo's? fewer buttons
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    insomnia wrote: »
    isn't controllers normaly worse for mmo's? fewer buttons

    Yes.

    But some people are very used to them and the multitude of crazy combination keybinds required to do things, and still just prefer them.

    The complaint I saw before is that developers make the games easier or less complex because of this 'less buttons' thing, but that's just to prevent players from having to learn a lot of these.

    If the player can set them all themselves, it's no longer the developer's problem, they just need to make sure the buttons are recognized properly when pressed.
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  • TheWolfofGarTheWolfofGar Member, Alpha Two
    insomnia wrote: »
    isn't controllers normaly worse for mmo's? fewer buttons

    You can with a controller accommodate a large number of button combos, if you take ffxiv as a base and expand it a bit, if you have the triggers select the hotbar like ffxiv, you can get 30 buttons with just your right and left trigger,
    hold RT + (Dpad, Face Buttons, Control Sticks = 10)
    hold LT + (Dpad, Face Buttons, Control Sticks = 10)
    hold Both + (Dpad, Face Buttons, Control Sticks = 10)

    If you use your bumpers to select a group of 30 you could have 90 there alone with (LB, RB, Both)

    You add in combo inputs for example ffxiv allows a double tap of rt or lt to select an additional hot bar,
    so that brings us to a theoretical 50 buttons as our base for ~150 buttons to key bind if you use the bumper cycling option. Exactly how many buttons are required to be considered viable?
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  • HasilHasil Member, Settler, Kickstarter
    Controller support is also an accessibility issue. My son is hemiplegic and has limited use of his right hand, so he relies on controller support to be able to play many different types of games.
  • WHIT3ROS3WHIT3ROS3 Member
    I don't they should. Not for launch anyway. Perhaps in a few years, post-launch, they could consider it. I just don't think the benefits are enough for the extra work. If anything, AoC should be looking to reduce the number of commitments to get the game out. This just adds another layer of consideration in to systems and controls.

  • TalentsTalents Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Some people got controller working in Alpha 1, no reason why you couldn't at launch.
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  • StreviStrevi Member
    Controller optimized games can lead to bad mouse+keyboard solutions, because developers make the UI and events to accommodate both, to avoid double work. Then you end up clicking a lot and navigating out and into menus as if you would have fewer keys on the keyboard.
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  • DiamahtDiamaht Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    If it's just an easily supported setup sure, but if its something they have to constantly accommodate and account for then no.

    If it results in "Oh lets do x! Oh wait we can't do x, because we can't make that work on a controller" then it should not be supported.
  • CROW3CROW3 Member, Alpha Two
    No, thanks. Too much experience with too many games that sacrificed K&M experience to support controllers.
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  • AerlanaAerlana Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    A system as FFXIV for the shortcuts is fine.

    I think, marketing the game on keyboard side, but allowing easy swap to controller for people who really wants it, even if it is harder, less efficient, why not. their problem.
  • unknownsystemerrorunknownsystemerror Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Controller setup is coming. As Talents said above, some people have played with the controller options during testing. I have used a controller in every testing phase I have participated in Ashes. Some were better than others. There have been non-functional controller keybind screens in at least one iteration I had played, which means that have thought about it. It all comes down to preference. Stop trying to tell others how they should play the game in some weird "own" moment. If you prefer keyboard WASD play, good on you, if someone else prefers controller, let them eat cake. And putting Ashes on Steam has been repeatedly ruled out. They are doing their own launcher. So they will do their own keybinds. I don't see how them telling everyone for years that the game will be fully customizable from a UI and other points, seems to get stuck on this one issue.
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  • RhordenRhorden Member
    edited October 2022
    Never really considered playing a MMO on a controller but I really can't think of why it shouldn't be allowed. Make all the buttons fully mappable and customizable, e.g. turning speed. As long as k/m doesn't have a distinct advantage over a controller and vice versa, it shouldn't matter. It's just another method of interfacing. Given Intrepids commitment to a quality game I can't imagine they would let a subpar set up for this get through their testing process. If the control system you play on runs without flaws and works as you need it, would you begrudge someone playing on the other platform style if it worked just as well? It shouldn't take long to implement this considering there are already working models out to use as a base design.
    The one thing I would add to this is that Intrepid needs to be the one to do all the programming and set up for this to avoid any possibility that their anti-cheat would flag a person for using unapproved software and ban that account.
  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited October 2022
    as long as they dont do Anything at all that cap the game to make it "fair" for controller users... sure

    I wanna see a 100% PC game first, and Then sure, they can try to figure out how to port it or do controller, don't want to see absolutely any changes made to the gameplay to facilitate controller use
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  • bloodprophetbloodprophet Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Liniker wrote: »
    as long as they dont do Anything at all that cap the game to make it "fair" for controller users... sure

    I wanna see a 100% PC game first, and Then sure, they can try to figure out how to port it or do controller, don't want to see absolutely any changes made to the gameplay to facilitate controller use

    This is my main concern. We have seen it so many times where the game play gets sacrificed for the .01% of people that want to use a controller. Key mapping and binds is plenty enough. If the key binds work well enough for people to use a controller good, I'll be happy for them. Just do not sacrifice gameplay or over all control(dumbing down).
    Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
  • AsgerrAsgerr Member, Alpha Two
    insomnia wrote: »
    isn't controllers normaly worse for mmo's? fewer buttons

    Depends on how you design it. FFXIV has classes with a ton of buttons to press. I've always played in on playstation and never had any issues thanks to how the Cross-Hotbar works. Even some high end raiders use them. Just a matter of preference and what one is used to.

    So far, Ashes seems to be aiming for a limited number of buttons for skills to press. So it could very easily be worked in for native support.
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  • IskiabIskiab Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 2022
    Less buttons is usually a better experience anyways. My play switched from using keyboard and mouse to a controller, even in games where it's a disadvantage, it's more comfortable. Controller support would be great.
  • SettiteSettite Member
    I'd also love controller support at launch. If it doesn't hurt keyboard and mouse players then I don't see why not. My entire group of gaming friends are on console but have pcs on the side. I know at least half of them will play it 100% if there is controller support.
  • CodedCoded Member
    edited October 2022
    To people questioning why I would want controller......I am disabled with chronic pain and can really only play games with a controller. I use 3rd party programs and steam big picture setups but with mmos i just find inventory management becomes a game killer without official support.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    From my perspective, I'll never use a controller and personally think those that use them will always be at a disadvantage (mouse and keyboard is the most versatile control scheme we have come up with as yet).

    However, if people wish to use a controller, that's their call. Assuming the game can support it without any loss to mouse and keyboard users, and since we can all see there are a number of people that would use it for various reasons, I cant see any reasonable arguments at all as to why support shouldn't be included.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 2022
    Unreal is made to support controller it isn't that difficult (clearly will be at a disadvantage but that is fine)
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  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Unreal is made to support controller it isn't that difficult (clearly will be at a disadvantage but that is fine)

    Indeed it is.

    Assuming Intrepid make all controls mappable, having a developer spend a few days to ensure controls for UI navigation are up to standard *should* be all that is needed.
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