To the Action Combat Fans

What Action Combat games do you guys consider to be good? Link or reference the game.

Personally, not one game out there has been able to properly provide a good action combat experience, so it is difficult for me to understand why people want Action Combat as the main form of a combat experience, when it's not once been done properly.

Action Combat games always get messed up.

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Taleof2Cities

Don't forget the forums search feature, @DarkTides.

There's a recent healthy discussion on the topic (38 pages) ... located HERE.

Includes game references.

Sathrago

Blade and Soul. Here's some tournament clips.

One note for watchers, The camera used to watch these is the dynamic spectator camera that is ingame, not just for tournaments. the players have their own PoV that is basically your typical mmorpg ui.
1v1 mirror match

https://youtu.be/6WOkBtFbKJg
1v1 mirror match

https://youtu.be/TcmKVoYMQWw
three matches, a 1v1, a 3v3, and another 1v1.

https://youtu.be/ygkCVhQBUxI

The 3v3s have some interesting mechanics like assisting or tagging in. one teammate can decide at any point to use their assist charge to hop in for 10 seconds of fun. During that time they can do and use anything they want to help their buddy, but they also take damage and can potentially be killed. If the time limit is reached or player decides to they can swap out with the player next in line to fight. They then go to the back of the "line" for tagging in.

DarkTides

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Don't forget the forums search feature, @DarkTides.

There's a recent healthy discussion on the topic (38 pages) ... located HERE.

Includes game references.

Similar but not the same post.

I happen to like Action Combat, just not the way developers provide it to us in MMOs.

Ashes is hybrid.

I think the main issue with action combat games is the lack of realism, while trying to employ a realistic means of combat(that being action combat).

Similar to the issue that occurs when older games tried to create realistic graphics, the game did not age well, thus these cartoonish Disney games emerged in hopes to allow the graphics to last so people wouldn't just hop on over to the next better looking game.

Action Combat appears to be limited, either by programming capability, laziness or I dunno what it is. Maybe one day, when we all have neuro-interfaces and plug into the Matrix, we'll have what Action Combat games deserve to have. Until then, to me, it's like watching people play a wannabe realism game with outdated graphics.

Azherae

You're only referring to MMOs, right?

Or do you find the same thing to be true for the more grounded recent Monster Hunter games?

I know that you can say that Monster Hunter games are not as realistic because the characters are often too 'superhuman', but I don't know that one could say 'these aren't realistic' in the other sense? What is the 'lack of realism' in Monster Hunter?

DarkTides

Azherae wrote: »

You're only referring to MMOs, right?

Or do you find the same thing to be true for the more grounded recent Monster Hunter games?

I know that you can say that Monster Hunter games are not as realistic because the characters are often too 'superhuman', but I don't know that one could say 'these aren't realistic' in the other sense? What is the 'lack of realism' in Monster Hunter?

Probably all action combat games. Some do it better than others, but there will always be missing components. MMOs are more satisfying to be a part of. When tab targeting is used, it lowers the realism requirement bar and focuses more on something else it appears.

Definition of realistic here would be reflecting what would transpire in reality, in the game. For 'superhuman' characters, realism would require additional imagination, demonstrated in movies. So I won't be happy until that happens.

Azherae

DarkTides wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

You're only referring to MMOs, right?

Or do you find the same thing to be true for the more grounded recent Monster Hunter games?

I know that you can say that Monster Hunter games are not as realistic because the characters are often too 'superhuman', but I don't know that one could say 'these aren't realistic' in the other sense? What is the 'lack of realism' in Monster Hunter?

Probably all action combat games. Some do it better than others, but there will always be missing components. MMOs are more satisfying to be a part of. When tab targeting is used, it lowers the realism requirement bar and focuses more on something else it appears.

Definition of realistic here would be reflecting what would transpire in reality, in the game. For 'superhuman' characters, realism would require additional imagination, demonstrated in movies. So I won't be happy until that happens.

Well, what's the missing component in Monster Hunter, for example? Within gameplay limitations of 'needing your character to keep functioning at least a little and not get sliced in half too easily', of course.

Mag7spy

I will start witht he most basic example I can do and we can go from there. What is more fun

1. A game where you can press a key and it causes your character to automatically walk up to your target and attack to use your skill. (requiring nothing of you but to press the button)
2. You walk you walk up to the target and press your ability and attempt to hit the target which it can attempt to move away from your attack

If someone preferred option one there isn't much else for me to say so id just leave it at that. If option 2 I'd say because the person feels it is more immersed and requires effort over the game playing for you.

So the next question would be why is that more enjoy able, and how to incorporate that into a mmorpg. With a history of that being the came with the genre over the years.

Tyranthraxus

After leaving SWTOR out of sheer resentment for the game's creative direction, yours truly wandered the vast wastes of the non-Star Wars MMO's, to learn about the Action-combat games that are/were out there (as I sojourned in this personal exile, Tera shut down). Here's the notes of yours truly, upon three of them:

GuildWars2

This one felt vast, and it was immediately apparent that GW2 possesses vast and deep lore. However? It's gameplay felt just a little outdated/previous-generation, and the levelling experience looked to be a bit too-linear. GREAT in-game community tools and personal customization.

NeverWinter Online

NOT the spiritual successor of the first MMO of both Steven Sharif and I(Neverwinter Nights on AOL, 1991-1997). The combat action in this one is interesting, in that your default action toolbar is limited to 5 spaces; You must decide upon what abilities you have obtained in levelling will best serve you, in combat. The BLOCK feature is also great, in that you can use your ability-points to instead defend yourself against critically/lethal attacks - with the correct timing.

Black Desert Online

If you ever investigate BDO? You'll eventually come across such terms as "waste of potential". Probably 10-15 years from now?

Emulators are far more-likely to be both popular and player-retentive. The reason for this is that - while the game engine is such a wonder, in its ability to fast-generate and retain such complete visual renderings - is the constant in-game Cash-Shop "reminders".

BDO is infamous for scaring off new/F2P players with it's *IN-GAME CASH SHOP POP-UP ADVERTISEMENTS*. Quite literally? you don't need to navigate your toon to a quest-objective; Auto-pilot will do that, for you!

No, you didn't mis-read that/I'm NOT exaggerating; You will get constant pop-up ads in-game, for Cash Shop items.

Thus far?

We're really a generation of pre-intrinsic MMORPGs - a genre that will only gain more followers, with the passage of time. What a thrill to know that IRL friends will be joining me, as we all venture into a brand new setting and conquer the unknown!

maouw

My fave action combat has been the most recent God of War (2018) which released on ps4 (which I played) and then ported to PC (haven't played, but WASD + mouse just makes sense). But given the budget and smaller scope of the combat in GoW (plus it's single player), I know it's unrealistic to expect that sort of combat from Ashes. But I can dream.

I'm also a big fan of the Monster Hunter Series (my only complaint is that I love playing supportive roles, but hunting horn is just not my weapon).

I like the direction of combat in games like Genshin Impact - but I find their overall combat feels spammy and linear. Specifically, you have basically 1 set combo on each character, and you cycle all characters to do their 1 combo - very linear.

Finally, I've also heard great things about Dragon's Dogma, but can't personally comment on it. I've purchased it and will be exploring soon.

EDIT: I really enjoyed Lost Ark's combat, but some would argue I can't use that as an example because it's played from an isometric perspective. League of Legends too.

Liniker

as you can see for most comments, unfortunately, there isn't any True Action MMORPG that has a solid and functional trinity system with Tanks, Healers and DPS and good group and raid content or massive pvp, most action MMOs are focused on singleplayer or small scale content and 1v1 balance where everyone can do everything... and the ones that people use as examples, are not true action games, they have plenty of tab target elements so... hybrid is definitely the way to go! I'm happy intrepid kept in this direction! it will make Most (not all) MMORPG players happy

DarkTides

Azherae wrote: »

DarkTides wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

You're only referring to MMOs, right?

Or do you find the same thing to be true for the more grounded recent Monster Hunter games?

I know that you can say that Monster Hunter games are not as realistic because the characters are often too 'superhuman', but I don't know that one could say 'these aren't realistic' in the other sense? What is the 'lack of realism' in Monster Hunter?

Probably all action combat games. Some do it better than others, but there will always be missing components. MMOs are more satisfying to be a part of. When tab targeting is used, it lowers the realism requirement bar and focuses more on something else it appears.

Definition of realistic here would be reflecting what would transpire in reality, in the game. For 'superhuman' characters, realism would require additional imagination, demonstrated in movies. So I won't be happy until that happens.

Well, what's the missing component in Monster Hunter, for example? Within gameplay limitations of 'needing your character to keep functioning at least a little and not get sliced in half too easily', of course.

How about yourself? What do you consider to be realistic about Monster World Hunters combat?

I personally can't say anything is realistic at all, for me though. You can do more in Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen, and that game was released in 2013

Basically, I'm looking for massive improvements in Action Combat games. We may see it over the years, but the Devs are lazy IMO, and are milking the genre with it's current iteration. There's a certain formula used to trigger appeal, but they could have a wider audience if they worked for it. It is a mockery of what it could be and thus why I made the comparison to that of older games trying to have realistic graphics. Action Combat games are utilizing "old" ways to try and demonstrate realism in combat, and it fails. Not discrediting people who like it, but those people must enjoy it for other reasons than realistic combat. Hack and Slash spam aspect perhaps.

wrms

I still think Tera had the most fun combat of any MMO I've played. Fighting BAMs (big ass monsters? I think is what it stood for) was genuinely challenging and felt rewarding. It wasn't a simple matter of if you had the level and gear to win, your movement and timing of your abilities is what decided whether you won or lost.

It also made tanking a lot of fun. I don't usually play a tank in MMOs, but there was a class in Tera that was an evasive tank rather than just a meat shield, and timing your dodges to avoid the bosses big attacks was extremely engaging. I had a lot of fun with that alt.

That said, I don't know if pure action combat would work as well with the scale of the game they want for AoC. I can imagine that it could be nearly impossible to make action combat work in a 500 v 500 battle. It must take a lot more computation to register hits in action combat than it does in tab targeting. So for the vision they have for this game, I'm fine with a hybrid combat that skews towards tab targeting. I'm sure they can still make it feel very fun and rewarding.

Azherae

DarkTides wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

DarkTides wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

You're only referring to MMOs, right?

Or do you find the same thing to be true for the more grounded recent Monster Hunter games?

I know that you can say that Monster Hunter games are not as realistic because the characters are often too 'superhuman', but I don't know that one could say 'these aren't realistic' in the other sense? What is the 'lack of realism' in Monster Hunter?

Probably all action combat games. Some do it better than others, but there will always be missing components. MMOs are more satisfying to be a part of. When tab targeting is used, it lowers the realism requirement bar and focuses more on something else it appears.

Definition of realistic here would be reflecting what would transpire in reality, in the game. For 'superhuman' characters, realism would require additional imagination, demonstrated in movies. So I won't be happy until that happens.

Well, what's the missing component in Monster Hunter, for example? Within gameplay limitations of 'needing your character to keep functioning at least a little and not get sliced in half too easily', of course.

How about yourself? What do you consider to be realistic about Monster World Hunters combat?

I personally can't say anything is realistic at all, for me though. You can do more in Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen, and that game was released in 2013

Basically, I'm looking for massive improvements in Action Combat games. We may see it over the years, but the Devs are lazy IMO, and are milking the genre with it's current iteration. There's a certain formula used to trigger appeal, but they could have a wider audience if they worked for it. It is a mockery of what it could be and thus why I made the comparison to that of older games trying to have realistic graphics. Action Combat games are utilizing "old" ways to try and demonstrate realism in combat, and it fails. Not discrediting people who like it, but those people must enjoy it for other reasons than realistic combat. Hack and Slash spam aspect perhaps.

I must ignore the reflection here, but I appreciate you going right for it.

I probably don't understand your point, but I'm willing to disengage on it.

BlackBrony

Imagine a full action combat game.
Tank: Why didn't you heal me?
Healer: you moved!
Tank: you suck

End of raid

Mag7spy

BlackBrony wrote: »

Imagine a full action combat game.
Tank: Why didn't you heal me?
Healer: you moved!
Tank: you suck

End of raid

There is no reason why that would happen, there is no reason to make healing more difficult and plenty of ways to heal who needs to be healed.

No one advocating for action combat is saying you can't have any targeted heals or buffs.

Solvryn

DarkTides wrote: »

What Action Combat games do you guys consider to be good? Link or reference the game.

Personally, not one game out there has been able to properly provide a good action combat experience, so it is difficult for me to understand why people want Action Combat as the main form of a combat experience, when it's not once been done properly.

Action Combat games always get messed up.

I look at the genre for the pieces that make up the machine.

I like the way Conquerors Blade has an importance on precision, combat geometry, map utilization in combination with intelligent positioning.

I liked Darkfall for its gap in the skill floor and the skill ceiling, there was much to learn and many aspects of the game to master. It too had an importance in precision, as well has timing.

And I prefer those things over a tacticle-kinesthetic memorization of a sequence.

Player efficacy and control is more rewarding to me than rng.

Depraved

DarkTides wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Don't forget the forums search feature, @DarkTides.

There's a recent healthy discussion on the topic (38 pages) ... located HERE.

Includes game references.

Similar but not the same post.

I happen to like Action Combat, just not the way developers provide it to us in MMOs.

Ashes is hybrid.

I think the main issue with action combat games is the lack of realism, while trying to employ a realistic means of combat(that being action combat).

Similar to the issue that occurs when older games tried to create realistic graphics, the game did not age well, thus these cartoonish Disney games emerged in hopes to allow the graphics to last so people wouldn't just hop on over to the next better looking game.

Action Combat appears to be limited, either by programming capability, laziness or I dunno what it is. Maybe one day, when we all have neuro-interfaces and plug into the Matrix, we'll have what Action Combat games deserve to have. Until then, to me, it's like watching people play a wannabe realism game with outdated graphics.

its not about being realistic. its about being believable

LittleVoidling

Honestly, I just don't see a way for action to work unless they did an expanded third person version of lost ark abilities (with flashiness & size reduced of course).

BlackBrony

Mag7spy wrote: »

BlackBrony wrote: »

Imagine a full action combat game.
Tank: Why didn't you heal me?
Healer: you moved!
Tank: you suck

End of raid

There is no reason why that would happen, there is no reason to make healing more difficult and plenty of ways to heal who needs to be healed.

No one advocating for action combat is saying you can't have any targeted heals or buffs.

Then how do healers show off their skills? Why it's only DPS and tanks (maybe, you're already changing the rules for healers) allowed to show off?
If the game is aimed, then everythinig should be aimed.

DarkTides

Depraved wrote: »

DarkTides wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Don't forget the forums search feature, @DarkTides.

There's a recent healthy discussion on the topic (38 pages) ... located HERE.

Includes game references.

Similar but not the same post.

I happen to like Action Combat, just not the way developers provide it to us in MMOs.

Ashes is hybrid.

I think the main issue with action combat games is the lack of realism, while trying to employ a realistic means of combat(that being action combat).

Similar to the issue that occurs when older games tried to create realistic graphics, the game did not age well, thus these cartoonish Disney games emerged in hopes to allow the graphics to last so people wouldn't just hop on over to the next better looking game.

Action Combat appears to be limited, either by programming capability, laziness or I dunno what it is. Maybe one day, when we all have neuro-interfaces and plug into the Matrix, we'll have what Action Combat games deserve to have. Until then, to me, it's like watching people play a wannabe realism game with outdated graphics.

its not about being realistic. its about being believable

Quite true. That choice of word better suits the situation, though each of our own definitions of what each of us think of either word may find us at odds, all the while thinking we know. I do not know how closely related you would place realism and believableness.

Imagination plays a significant role in shaping that perception, as we do not have realistic examples to base magic, and superhuman capability off of.

Because of this, my imagination leaves me questioning whats been given from action combat games, hoping that one day I will believe what I see.

I would very much like an action combat game that combines various takes on action combat, while removing what I find to detract from believableness. Here is where branching begins.

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