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I don't like action combat, and it could very potentially stop me from playing

VissoxVissox Member, Alpha Two
I haven't played it yet, so I'm not drawing any sort of line yet. But steven asked for feedback about if we are going in a positive direction, and I'm just gonna say that every action combat korean type mmo I've ever played I have absolutely hated. I am tab target 100%, I think action combat only works from an overhead 3rd person perspective like diablo or league of legends or lost ark. I don't want to aim my ability's honestly, If I use a sword and get animation locked, and at the same time I'm required to dodge some kind of skill shot. I'm not gonna be happy. If I miss a spell as a spell caster because my mouse was 4 pixels off, same thing. Tab targeting let's me focus on what I think matters.
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Comments

  • sb1285nsb1285n Member, Warrior of Old, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited June 2022
    I find combat that's fully tab target to be boring and predictable for the most part. I want to be able to dodge a skill or land an incredible skill shot from across the map. It also creates an environment where min maxing and finding the perfect rotation is more important than getting better at your class or even just enaging with the world around you when you're in a fight. You know your skill will hit so you barely need to focus on what's in front of you.
  • ClintHardwoodClintHardwood Member, Alpha Two
    edited June 2022
    I love action combat, personally. It adds another dimension of skill to the game and keeps mob grinding from becoming so mindless that you have to watch videos to keep your sanity through the same repetitive skill rotations. Positioning, timing, and skillshots. These are neigh invaluable aspects that keep combat strategy fresh even after a decade of use. And this is coming from someone who's generally bad at PvP.
  • CROW3CROW3 Member, Alpha Two
    Ok.
    AoC+Dwarf+750v3.png
  • VissoxVissox Member, Alpha Two
    sb1285n wrote: »
    I find combat that's fully tab target to be boring and predictable for the most part. I want to be able to dodge a skill or land an incredible skill shot from across the map. It also creates an environment where min maxing and finding the perfect rotation is more important than getting better at your class or even just enaging with the world around you when you're in a fight. You know your skill will hit so you barely need to focus on what's in front of you.

    Any game that sits around long enough is gonna get a rotation. And if you don't like min maxing, I'm sorry but I have no idea why you play mmorpgs.
  • sb1285nsb1285n Member, Warrior of Old, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I love action combat, personally. It adds another dimension of skill to the game and keeps mob grinding from becoming so mindless that you have to watch videos to keep your sanity through the repetitive skill rotations. And this is coming from someone who's generally bad at combat.

    Yeah, I agree with this as well. Killing BAMs in Tera while leveling is still one of my favorite MMO gaming experiences. The risk vs reward was spot on and couldn't exist if it wasn't action combat.
  • ChocometeorChocometeor Member, Alpha Two
    They said it will be a hybrid between Action AND Tab target. today they only showed us an update about Action Combat and it looked very good. I like it alot (Im a Tab target fan too).
    And now i hope we will see this new Combat style with Tab Targeting ''active'' to see how they will balance it.
    uwu
  • "I want to be able to dodge a skill or land an incredible skill shot from across the map."
    ^^ So much this. It makes it a lot more fun and challenging.

    The first time I played a game with action combat I hated it. But I stuck with it and after a while I came to like it way better. In games with tab targeting it never made sense to me that I couldn't dodge their attacks, it was frustrating tbh. Action combat is more realistic.
  • sb1285nsb1285n Member, Warrior of Old, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited June 2022
    Vissox wrote: »
    sb1285n wrote: »
    I find combat that's fully tab target to be boring and predictable for the most part. I want to be able to dodge a skill or land an incredible skill shot from across the map. It also creates an environment where min maxing and finding the perfect rotation is more important than getting better at your class or even just enaging with the world around you when you're in a fight. You know your skill will hit so you barely need to focus on what's in front of you.

    Any game that sits around long enough is gonna get a rotation. And if you don't like min maxing, I'm sorry but I have no idea why you play mmorpgs.

    No need to be rude. I didn't attack your point of view. Also, I never said rotations didn't exist in action games, nor did I say I didn't like min maxing.
  • Well good thing you can choose and have mostly (up to 75%) tab targeting skills should you wish. But don't expect it to be just as effective as people that have to aim their skills. If you are ''100% tab target guy'', this might not be the game for you - just like it isn't a game for ''100% action guys'' 🙂
    signature.png
  • sb1285nsb1285n Member, Warrior of Old, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Magic Man wrote: »
    Well good thing you can choose and have mostly (up to 75%) tab targeting skills should you wish. But don't expect it to be just as effective as people that have to aim their skills. If you are ''100% tab target guy'', this might not be the game for you - just like it isn't a game for ''100% action guys'' 🙂

    Yeah I like this idea. Archeage had it and I liked that you could target enemies but not all skills were guaranteed to hit. Opposing players still had agency and could dodge if they were fast enough.
  • VissoxVissox Member, Alpha Two
    Magic Man wrote: »
    Well good thing you can choose and have mostly (up to 75%) tab targeting skills should you wish. But don't expect it to be just as effective as people that have to aim their skills. If you are ''100% tab target guy'', this might not be the game for you - just like it isn't a game for ''100% action guys'' 🙂

    How would aiming your skills ever be more efficient than them automatically connecting every time? My point isn't even that I can't do it, it's that it isn't fun. I don't want to play twist and turn carpal tunnel simulator, If I did I'd go play karthus.
  • sb1285nsb1285n Member, Warrior of Old, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Vissox wrote: »
    Magic Man wrote: »
    Well good thing you can choose and have mostly (up to 75%) tab targeting skills should you wish. But don't expect it to be just as effective as people that have to aim their skills. If you are ''100% tab target guy'', this might not be the game for you - just like it isn't a game for ''100% action guys'' 🙂

    How would aiming your skills ever be more efficient than them automatically connecting every time? My point isn't even that I can't do it, it's that it isn't fun. I don't want to play twist and turn carpal tunnel simulator, If I did I'd go play karthus.

    Because most hybrid games have a soft lock on feature so you can tab target but it's not guaranteed to hit. Lining up your shot and timing it with player movement would be more effective
  • ClintHardwoodClintHardwood Member, Alpha Two
    Vissox wrote: »
    Magic Man wrote: »
    Well good thing you can choose and have mostly (up to 75%) tab targeting skills should you wish. But don't expect it to be just as effective as people that have to aim their skills. If you are ''100% tab target guy'', this might not be the game for you - just like it isn't a game for ''100% action guys'' 🙂

    How would aiming your skills ever be more efficient than them automatically connecting every time? My point isn't even that I can't do it, it's that it isn't fun. I don't want to play twist and turn carpal tunnel simulator, If I did I'd go play karthus.

    Because aimed skills generally have higher damage ceilings, while auto-hit abilities have lower damage or conditions on how they can be used.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    Tab target literarily no joke, puts me to sleep in a mmorpg. If I played pantheon I wouldn't last long standing still tab target attacking, and it just feels old age these days. Reason for tab target was more limits on what could be done in games back then.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Well, hybrid combat has been a pillar since Kickstarter, so...
  • TyranthraxusTyranthraxus Member, Alpha Two
    I really, really like enough of the rest of the game that I won't much care if it ends up being a BDO-like or NWO-like combat system.

    Yours truly has recently gone back to playing Star Wars Galaxies: Legends, and I *never* cared for ground-combat in that game; I was a crafter/trader and a spacer. Hoth was really neat, in the live game, but their ground-combat in SWG never impressed me. Like SWG, though, AoC looks to have enough side-systems and planned content that should make a player like me happy.

    Am *TOTALLY* with you on action-combat, though. I just don't feel that it has a place in MMOs beyond single-player or small-group content.



  • VissoxVissox Member, Alpha Two
    I guess I'm the only one? I feel as though people are putting very little thought into the implications of action combat. If it's bad, its really, really bad. Tab targeting is tried and true, and rotations are a pve exclusive thing guys. If you watch some WoW arena (as boring as it is) there is a lot more to interact with. I hope you guys are right on this one. =/
  • sb1285nsb1285n Member, Warrior of Old, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Am *TOTALLY* with you on action-combat, though. I just don't feel that it has a place in MMOs beyond single-player or small-group content.




    What about it makes you think it doesn't have a place? That's quite a statement to make. I may prefer action combat, but I can see why people enjoy tab targeting games.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I probably wouldn't play BDO-like combat, but I don't think it can be BDO-like combat.
    NWO combat is my upper limits for an MMORPG, I think.
    What we just saw in the June Combat Demo looked excellent.
  • VissoxVissox Member, Alpha Two
    I really, really like enough of the rest of the game that I won't much care if it ends up being a BDO-like or NWO-like combat system.

    Yours truly has recently gone back to playing Star Wars Galaxies: Legends, and I *never* cared for ground-combat in that game; I was a crafter/trader and a spacer. Hoth was really neat, in the live game, but their ground-combat in SWG never impressed me. Like SWG, though, AoC looks to have enough side-systems and planned content that should make a player like me happy.

    Am *TOTALLY* with you on action-combat, though. I just don't feel that it has a place in MMOs beyond single-player or small-group content.




    My interpretation of mmos has always been get better gear, do better rotation, get better number. The complexity comes in pvp.
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Vissox wrote: »
    I guess I'm the only one? I feel as though people are putting very little thought into the implications of action combat. If it's bad, its really, really bad. Tab targeting is tried and true, and rotations are a pve exclusive thing guys. If you watch some WoW arena (as boring as it is) there is a lot more to interact with. I hope you guys are right on this one. =/

    You are definitely not the only one, but according to my main data, the people who share your opinion are not online at this time.

    Give it a few hours and you'll probably get a more balanced discussion, though I should warn you that the Action Combat lovers so far have a much stronger capacity to actually deliver their points (some bias here, but probably not much), so you might not be able to count on anything other than 'numbers'.
    ♪ One Gummy Fish, two Gummy Fish, Red Gummy Fish, Blue Gummy Fish
  • VissoxVissox Member, Alpha Two
    sb1285n wrote: »
    Am *TOTALLY* with you on action-combat, though. I just don't feel that it has a place in MMOs beyond single-player or small-group content.




    What about it makes you think it doesn't have a place? That's quite a statement to make. I may prefer action combat, but I can see why people enjoy tab targeting games.

    It takes the focus away from the rpg aspects. The more people dodge the less gear matters, it will become more about stacking stamina and sponging forever while trying to keep perfect tracking on someone. and it makes stuns even MORE broken in a pvp setting. Long boss fight? Get ready to press the 1 key 900 times.
  • sb1285nsb1285n Member, Warrior of Old, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited June 2022
    Azherae wrote: »
    Vissox wrote: »
    I guess I'm the only one? I feel as though people are putting very little thought into the implications of action combat. If it's bad, its really, really bad. Tab targeting is tried and true, and rotations are a pve exclusive thing guys. If you watch some WoW arena (as boring as it is) there is a lot more to interact with. I hope you guys are right on this one. =/

    You are definitely not the only one, but according to my main data, the people who share your opinion are not online at this time.

    Give it a few hours and you'll probably get a more balanced discussion, though I should warn you that the Action Combat lovers so far have a much stronger capacity to actually deliver their points (some bias here, but probably not much), so you might not be able to count on anything other than 'numbers'.

    The OPs statements are overly agressive and dismissive of other people's opinions. That's why they're having trouble making a point. And even if I wanted to agree, I wouldn't do it in this thread, because of the way they're responding.

    Case in point.

    "If you don't like min maxing, I'm sorry but I have no idea why you play mmorpgs."

    "I feel as though people are putting very little thought into the implications of action combat."

    No, we have. We just prefer it over tab targetting and that's okay.
  • VissoxVissox Member, Alpha Two
    sb1285n wrote: »
    Azherae wrote: »
    Vissox wrote: »
    I guess I'm the only one? I feel as though people are putting very little thought into the implications of action combat. If it's bad, its really, really bad. Tab targeting is tried and true, and rotations are a pve exclusive thing guys. If you watch some WoW arena (as boring as it is) there is a lot more to interact with. I hope you guys are right on this one. =/

    You are definitely not the only one, but according to my main data, the people who share your opinion are not online at this time.

    Give it a few hours and you'll probably get a more balanced discussion, though I should warn you that the Action Combat lovers so far have a much stronger capacity to actually deliver their points (some bias here, but probably not much), so you might not be able to count on anything other than 'numbers'.

    The OPs statements are overly agressive and dismissive of other people's opinions. That's why they're having trouble making a point.

    Should I pretend I agree with you? I put thought into what I say, I wouldn't say I hated action combat if I wasn't serious. I HATE it. A lot. I'm gonna disagree with anyone who says it's better, I've played it all man. I dismiss, yes. You are wrong.
  • sb1285nsb1285n Member, Warrior of Old, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited June 2022
    Vissox wrote: »
    sb1285n wrote: »
    Azherae wrote: »
    Vissox wrote: »
    I guess I'm the only one? I feel as though people are putting very little thought into the implications of action combat. If it's bad, its really, really bad. Tab targeting is tried and true, and rotations are a pve exclusive thing guys. If you watch some WoW arena (as boring as it is) there is a lot more to interact with. I hope you guys are right on this one. =/

    You are definitely not the only one, but according to my main data, the people who share your opinion are not online at this time.

    Give it a few hours and you'll probably get a more balanced discussion, though I should warn you that the Action Combat lovers so far have a much stronger capacity to actually deliver their points (some bias here, but probably not much), so you might not be able to count on anything other than 'numbers'.

    The OPs statements are overly agressive and dismissive of other people's opinions. That's why they're having trouble making a point.

    Should I pretend I agree with you? I put thought into what I say, I wouldn't say I hated action combat if I wasn't serious. I HATE it. A lot. I'm gonna disagree with anyone who says it's better, I've played it all man. I dismiss, yes. You are wrong.

    Disagree all you want. I respect your opinion and accept that a lot of people enjoy that type of combat. That's wonderful. None of you are wrong for feeling that way. I'm critical of you for being a jerk, but at the end of the day you get to decide the type of person you want to be.
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Vissox wrote: »
    sb1285n wrote: »
    Azherae wrote: »
    Vissox wrote: »
    I guess I'm the only one? I feel as though people are putting very little thought into the implications of action combat. If it's bad, its really, really bad. Tab targeting is tried and true, and rotations are a pve exclusive thing guys. If you watch some WoW arena (as boring as it is) there is a lot more to interact with. I hope you guys are right on this one. =/

    You are definitely not the only one, but according to my main data, the people who share your opinion are not online at this time.

    Give it a few hours and you'll probably get a more balanced discussion, though I should warn you that the Action Combat lovers so far have a much stronger capacity to actually deliver their points (some bias here, but probably not much), so you might not be able to count on anything other than 'numbers'.

    The OPs statements are overly agressive and dismissive of other people's opinions. That's why they're having trouble making a point.

    Should I pretend I agree with you? I put thought into what I say, I wouldn't say I hated action combat if I wasn't serious. I HATE it. A lot. I'm gonna disagree with anyone who says it's better, I've played it all man. I dismiss, yes. You are wrong.

    Yes, this is approximately the level of argument/debate that the majority of Tab Target supporters have brought, but there are still a few that can and do make the argument beyond an emotional level. I believe at least one such person has been active recently, so if you hope to make an impact, it may be in your best interests to wait for that person to arrive and support you, rather than pushing with your current direction.

    I'm not saying you have to back down or agree, only suggesting that you wait for someone who can deliver your points more 'effectively'.
    ♪ One Gummy Fish, two Gummy Fish, Red Gummy Fish, Blue Gummy Fish
  • ClintHardwoodClintHardwood Member, Alpha Two
    edited June 2022
    The problem with tab-targeting is that people spend too much time looking at their skills and cooldowns during a fight because nothing else on the screen really matters. It's just too shallow of a system. Action combat, however, provides novel paths for skill like dodging, juking, clumping. It's not just tank and spank. Any system that gives more avenues to excel in also provides a larger learning curve, therefore making the game fun for longer. Also, by diversifying modes of combat, dps and healing are no longer the decisive factors in every fight. Some classes can be good at pulling enemies together, others can slow, disengage, backdoor, and so on.

    All in all, I'm really happy with the direction Intrepid is taking.
  • Not everyone will like tab and not everyone will like action. I think as a community all we really could assume is that the combat direction, while always spouted as hybrid, has never *really* been set in stone. I feel that they would split some abilities from one side to the other, but Intrepid simply can't please everyone.

    I do feel that what I saw today looked pretty good, there will be room to improve but they know that and just the experience looks better.

    I think the fact they explicitly showed 2 melee weapons tells me that it's possible different weapons could work differently. A friend mentioned he wouldn't want to play a ranged class and have to aim all the basic attacks, perhaps it will stay true that basics are fairly safe, but some skillshot active abilities are what would have to be aimed. I definitely wouldn't be able to use a ranged weapon if it required aim given my aim is pretty poor lol.

    So we will see as there is alot more to see and I know I have more questions than answers after this!
  • sb1285nsb1285n Member, Warrior of Old, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Azherae wrote: »
    Vissox wrote: »
    sb1285n wrote: »
    Azherae wrote: »
    Vissox wrote: »
    I guess I'm the only one? I feel as though people are putting very little thought into the implications of action combat. If it's bad, its really, really bad. Tab targeting is tried and true, and rotations are a pve exclusive thing guys. If you watch some WoW arena (as boring as it is) there is a lot more to interact with. I hope you guys are right on this one. =/

    You are definitely not the only one, but according to my main data, the people who share your opinion are not online at this time.

    Give it a few hours and you'll probably get a more balanced discussion, though I should warn you that the Action Combat lovers so far have a much stronger capacity to actually deliver their points (some bias here, but probably not much), so you might not be able to count on anything other than 'numbers'.

    The OPs statements are overly agressive and dismissive of other people's opinions. That's why they're having trouble making a point.

    Should I pretend I agree with you? I put thought into what I say, I wouldn't say I hated action combat if I wasn't serious. I HATE it. A lot. I'm gonna disagree with anyone who says it's better, I've played it all man. I dismiss, yes. You are wrong.

    Yes, this is approximately the level of argument/debate that the majority of Tab Target supporters have brought, but there are still a few that can and do make the argument beyond an emotional level. I believe at least one such person has been active recently, so if you hope to make an impact, it may be in your best interests to wait for that person to arrive and support you, rather than pushing with your current direction.

    I'm not saying you have to back down or agree, only suggesting that you wait for someone who can deliver your points more 'effectively'.

    I like your attitude.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    I'm as big of a tab targeter as you can get, but I don't care enough to argue against the action combat people because I don't care enough about combat to argue for/against smth. The only thing I can argue for is "pls move on with what you've made". And from the general feedback I've seen so far, it seems that there's a good chance that Intrepid can finally move on, because a lot of people seem to like the direction already.
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