Racial Effect On Beginning Stats

I know races are planned to "seed" stats- I am wondering if thought has been given to not having race affect stats? In a recent DnD update, they allowed any race to be picked and a basic stat enhancement matrix was given. I think this allows players to be more invested in their race instead of picking whichever benefits their class the most. I feel it can enhance role-playing investment, while not "holding back" players entirely focused on the strength of their character.

So instead of "Dwarf is good to pick for tanks because they give higher base health and defense", you could pick an Elf and use the matrix to enhance your health and defense sine you would like to play a Tank.

Or would this, in a sense, take away from the identity of the race since typically Dwarves are known as stout survivalists?

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Taleof2Cities

Races will have different base stats, yes, @NauticalBiceps.

However, you'll be able to flesh out your character through your archetype, gear, and racial augment choices ... so that you're not locked out of specific playstyles.

Basic stat matrixes are pretty much obsolete within the MMO genre these days. However, as mentioned above, there are plenty of other choices where (outside of race) you can make your character viable.

NauticalBiceps

@Taleof2Cities absolutley!

I guess my thought is if I want to be a Dwarf Mage, would I be at a disadvantage against an Elf Mage? I know there are so many factors to customize and strengthen your character, but would I be much weaker for taking an RP approach the first say 25 levels?

I feel with giving stat distribution (within reason) to the player at the start will allow "power gamers" the chance to optimize everything, while giving players who want to make an RP focused race choice the chance to still be strong at starting levels without having to be torn between strength and role-playing.

However, I could be completely wrong as this is an MMO and not DnD, and maybe my suggestion has more implications to balance than I realize

tautau

IMHO different races SHOULD have different stats and when you pick a race, you are picking the advantages and disadvantages that go with that race. Sure, if you pick an elf then you will be physically at a disadvantage to someone who picks an orc when it comes to strength. When it comes to speed, the elf has an advantage.

All races having the same base stats would make the game a bit boring. Complexity is fascinating.

Taleof2Cities

NauticalBiceps wrote: »

I feel with giving stat distribution (within reason) to the player at the start will allow "power gamers" the chance to optimize everything, while giving players who want to make an RP focused race choice the chance to still be strong at starting levels without having to be torn between strength and role-playing.

Stat distributions aren't planned. So, you'll have to personally decide whether RP or meta is more important (or somewhere in between).

Based on the feedback from Intrepid thus far, your character will be viable in the vast majority of content regardless of race.

NauticalBiceps

tautau wrote: »

All races having the same base stats would make the game a bit boring. Complexity is fascinating.

I agree with this sentiment 100%.

To further elaborate, let's say there are 5 stats all base 10 value.

Then, you are given 5 points to allocate. Why can't an orc grow up in the library learning magic? Or a Dwarf pinging rocks with his bow in the caves of the mountain?

There are still the race's culture, architecture, physical attributes, and interactions with NPCs that will differentiate, and this way does not "punish" a player for picking the race they like if it does not seed stats that benefit the class they want to play

NauticalBiceps

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

NauticalBiceps wrote: »

I feel with giving stat distribution (within reason) to the player at the start will allow "power gamers" the chance to optimize everything, while giving players who want to make an RP focused race choice the chance to still be strong at starting levels without having to be torn between strength and role-playing.

Stat distributions aren't planned. So, you'll have to personally decide whether RP or meta is more important (or somewhere in between).

Based on the feedback from Intrepid thus far, your character will be viable in the vast majority of content regardless of race.

I guess my question is why should we have to make that choice? I can definitely agree down the line if, for example, you want to be a shadowmage and that isn't meta, but you would like that for RP. I feel like it is a little lame though that you are Dwarf tank #379 since you didn't want to give up the stat increases at the start.

I will adjust my comment that down the line, race will play a large part in class efficiency. I do not think it will with all of the options we have. I just don't see why wanting to be an Orc Mage that doesn't skip the gym should make the player less efficient at the start.

And while the beginning levels will fly by I am sure, I guess I feel that it would allow for a more diverse character base. Instead of being Dwarf tank #379, you could feel different in being slim but strong Elf tank.

The point I am trying to make is that race should be as pivotal to our character as their class. It shouldn't be a "well do I want to be strong or do I want to look like this"‐ it could be both! I feel it would help players be more invested in their character AS a character, instead of a model in a game.

Taleof2Cities

NauticalBiceps wrote: »

The point I am trying to make is that race should be as pivotal to our character as their class. It shouldn't be a "well do I want to be strong or do I want to look like this"‐ it could be both! I feel it would help players be more invested in their character AS a character, instead of a model in a game.

We're not even in Alpha 2 and you're already chasing the meta?

Will you even be playing end game content in Ashes? Where an optimized build would be recommended?

I'm personally more invested in a suboptimal race being able to overcome their natural racial tendencies and try out a different role ... not that there's going to be a big stat difference anyway.

(Not to mention, the latest trend in MMOs is having unique stats for each race.)

Depraved

NauticalBiceps wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

NauticalBiceps wrote: »

I feel with giving stat distribution (within reason) to the player at the start will allow "power gamers" the chance to optimize everything, while giving players who want to make an RP focused race choice the chance to still be strong at starting levels without having to be torn between strength and role-playing.

Stat distributions aren't planned. So, you'll have to personally decide whether RP or meta is more important (or somewhere in between).

Based on the feedback from Intrepid thus far, your character will be viable in the vast majority of content regardless of race.

I guess my question is why should we have to make that choice?

because thats the player experience. they want you to feel like a genius when it comes to character building, so you have to pick your race, racial augments, class, 2nd class, actives, passives, weapons, and other stuff you get from religion or other nodes. thats why you have to make that choice.

look, you can always adjust your stats with your gear. just get gear that gives you more con, or str or whatever you want. plus there are diminishing returns and racial augments. a dwarven tank might not necessarily be better than an elven tank because it starts with 5 more con.

sure, there will always be a best choice and that can change every month with balance patches, but the best choice might not even be too significant. you really gonna complain because a dwarf tank has 100 more health than you?

CROW3

Dwarves make great tanks because the more dwarves the better. That's pretty obvious, right?

I like when there's some racial min/maxing toward a few classes (not just one) - nothing game-breaking significant, but just something to consider. It makes it that much more meaningful to go against the grain.

NauticalBiceps

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

NauticalBiceps wrote: »

The point I am trying to make is that race should be as pivotal to our character as their class. It shouldn't be a "well do I want to be strong or do I want to look like this"‐ it could be both! I feel it would help players be more invested in their character AS a character, instead of a model in a game.

We're not even in Alpha 2 and you're already chasing the meta?

Will you even be playing end game content in Ashes? Where an optimized build would be recommended?

I'm personally more invested in a suboptimal race being able to overcome their natural racial tendencies and try out a different role ... not that there's going to be a big stat difference anyway.

(Not to mention, the latest trend in MMOs is having unique stats for each race.)

Why the negativity and condescension?

Isn't Ashes breaking the latest trends in MMOs?

My point is that you don't need to invest in suboptimal races. What if you could pick whatever race you want AND not be suboptimal?

I have no interest in chasing the meta. I am saying that you shouldn't have to decide between being meta and selecting the race you want outside of initial stat boosts

NauticalBiceps

Okay, so the point I am trying to make is that a vast majority of players are going to focus overwhelming importance on the class they want instead of their race. If there are bonuses to picking a particular race that will benefit that class, players will pick that race regardless of their design, history, architecture, and other various differentiating factors.

My idea is as follows- race and class are the keys to making your decision at character creation. Do your seeded stats matter when you're late or even mid game? No. But people will still feel a pull to picking the race that gives them a boost at the beginning if they are unsure on their race.

The change to being able to allocate stat points at character creation will help with immersion for the middle ground player- do they know what class they want? Yes. Do they care what race they pick? Not particularly. Since no race is an obvious choice, they will feel more motivated to learn about the races Intrepid put so much effort into before they choose.

End game? Race doesn't matter meta wise. Overcoming the "status quo" for the race? Why is that a choice the player should have to make? Why can't they be whoever they want to be and still feel effective?

In my opinion, class should be selected based on preferred playstyle. Race should be selected based on preferred character design/other various unique features of that race that are desired.

Everything else along the way is filled with choices such as gear, secondary class, relics, etc. And as you put careful thought and consideration into those choices, shouldn't you do the same for race instead of either being pigeonholed into one for strength or picking the opposite to go against the grain?

I don't feel class efficacy should depend on racial selection, no matter where along the level curve race makes a noticeable difference.

cheezyweasel

I doubt that a few extra points in one stat or another will even be worth considering by the end game. What you should probably me more concerned with are the racial augments when it comes to feeling compelled to pick one race over another.

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