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Should False Mass Reports Be Punished?

DolyemDolyem Member
edited October 2022 in General Discussion
Just wanted to see what people think of the idea of whether or not people who falsely mass report a player who is found to not be guilty be punished?

An example would be a large guild mass reporting a player gathering in an area so they are banned/suspended so they can monopolize an area to grind materials unhindered. Should all of the people involved in the mass report then be suspended? Banned? Other ideas?

This has always been an issue in MMOs at least to some degree, and as far as I know, the reporters never receive repercussions for what I would consider an exploitation of the game.

What are everyones opinions on this?
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    It’s just another form of griefing imo. Consequences are necessary.
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    CROW3 wrote: »
    It’s just another form of griefing imo. Consequences are necessary.

    any suggestions for proper levels of punishment? I almost feel like the entire guild should be punished if it seems like enough of them are involved in the report.
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    Arya_YesheArya_Yeshe Member
    edited October 2022
    Would a one player farm be a problem for an entire guild?
    This would never happen.

    But for sure guilds will mass report an innocent player, by mistake or for any other reason.

    Asmongold is wrong about this subject, he is not Enlightement... he said that PVPers do mass reports in attempt to win at any cost, that is wrong.

    The mass report thing is mostly done by try-hards (being try-hard carebears or try-hard pvpers), they will do anything to beat you in the game, they will farm more, use bots, do mass reports and do anything else they can.

    No company should automatically suspend or ban people based on the ammount of reports.

    What the players could do is recording a very tiny video and upload it somewhere and only take action if the violation is blatant... then the company can use the video as reference for keeping track where this is happening, against which mobs, which materials are being farmed etc... then they will have a reference for something automated based on proof.
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
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    Arya_Yeshe wrote: »
    Would a one player farm be a problem for an entire guild?
    This would never happen.

    But for sure guilds will mass report an innocent player, by mistake or for any other reason.

    Asmongold is wrong about this subject, he is not Enlightement... he said that PVPers do mass reports in attempt to win at any cost, that is wrong.

    The mass report thing is mostly done by try-hards (being try-hard carebears or try-hard pvpers), they will do anything to beat you in the game, they will farm more, use bots, do mass reports and do anything else they can.

    No company should automatically suspend or ban people based on the ammount of reports.

    What the players could do is recording a very tiny video and upload it somewhere and only take action if the violation is blatant... then the company can use the video as reference for keeping track where this is happening, against which mobs, which materials are being farmed etc... then they will have a reference for something automated based on proof.

    I think you misunderstood the post. I am asking whether or not the people mass reporting an innocent player should be punished, and how severely they should be punished.
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    mass reports shouldnt auto kick/ban a player and false mass reports should be punished
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    I don’t think the whole guild would be punished, just the individuals involved.
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    I understood and I answered the question, it is right there and fully explained.

    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
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    Arya_Yeshe wrote: »
    I understood and I answered the question, it is right there and fully explained.

    Maybe summarize it then? It isn't very clear what your stance is based on that comment.
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    If there is evidence that it was coordinated then participants get a 1 week ban. A second offense of the same type warrants a permanent suspension.

    I like these sorts of rules being strict because I know that I'll never be one to break them.
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    Yeah, a ramp up of punishment for serial false mass reporting would be nice. Imo that kind of action is as bad as genocidal PKing, if not even worse if the mass reporting autobans someone.
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    HinotoriHinotori Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Arya_Yeshe wrote: »
    Would a one player farm be a problem for an entire guild?
    This would never happen.

    But for sure guilds will mass report an innocent player, by mistake or for any other reason.

    Asmongold is wrong about this subject, he is not Enlightement... he said that PVPers do mass reports in attempt to win at any cost, that is wrong.

    The mass report thing is mostly done by try-hards (being try-hard carebears or try-hard pvpers), they will do anything to beat you in the game, they will farm more, use bots, do mass reports and do anything else they can.

    No company should automatically suspend or ban people based on the ammount of reports.

    What the players could do is recording a very tiny video and upload it somewhere and only take action if the violation is blatant... then the company can use the video as reference for keeping track where this is happening, against which mobs, which materials are being farmed etc... then they will have a reference for something automated based on proof.

    Bruh. Come on. You play eve. You know exactly what people go through to win timers. People have gone to fleet commanders houses and cut the power just so they can't log in.

    Mass reporting players to increase gained resources, priority freehold space, economic monopolies etc. Will 100% happen.

    People will stoop to any means necessary to gain an advantage over others.

    I agree no player should be banned through mob rule and all cases should be investigated. I also feel that groups of people or guilds engaging in an effort to mass report players should face some kind of punishment.
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    They need smart systems in place, if suddenly you are being mass reported within a small timeframe in an unusual way things need to be investigated. There shouldn't just be a auto punishment because of reports it should just flag an account.
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    AerlanaAerlana Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    First, punishment should be given by a human, not some kind of line of codes.

    Second, there are one thing to do to fight against the "false report" : GM should be able to flag a report if it was false or no. mass report and in general false report woudl end to show toxic people using this way.
    Then, it is choices to just ignore their report against other players, or find a punishment.
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    Dolyem wrote: »
    Just wanted to see what people think of the idea of whether or not people who falsely mass report a player who is found to not be guilty be punished?

    An example would be a large guild mass reporting a player gathering in an area so they are banned/suspended so they can monopolize an area to grind materials unhindered. Should all of the people involved in the mass report then be suspended? Banned? Other ideas?

    This has always been an issue in MMOs at least to some degree, and as far as I know, the reporters never receive repercussions for what I would consider an exploitation of the game.

    What are everyones opinions on this?

    If a player was mass reported, and it turns out they did not break any rules, all players who reported them should receive a warning. Repeat offenders can have their ability to report taken away.
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    Dolyem wrote: »
    Just wanted to see what people think of the idea of whether or not people who falsely mass report a player who is found to not be guilty be punished?

    Should all of the people involved in the mass report then be suspended? Banned? Other ideas?

    Suspended once, permanently banned if it happens twice, gonna give a radical example, but should people who fake being assaulted to win money in a lawsuit get in trouble ? The answer is yes.
    Just a Sail, drifting about
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    NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    They need smart systems in place, if suddenly you are being mass reported within a small timeframe in an unusual way things need to be investigated. There shouldn't just be a auto punishment because of reports it should just flag an account.

    While I agree completely, I've never seriously played a game that has a system to automatically ban players.

    It's one of those situations where if a developer is doing this, you know that developer simply doesn't care. I don't get why anyone would play an MMO from a developer that doesn't care.
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    GrimmsleyGrimmsley Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Absolutely. It's misuse of its intended function and it could make innocent players of the community suffer from false claims.
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    Mass Reports should not work.
    If players try to overload the GMs, it is up to GMs to decide what to do.
    I prefer a flexible approach, where players may or may not be punished but where the players do not know where the limit is to prevent abusing the system.
    September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
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    Auto-banning people as result of mass reports should not work.

    Live service GMs should investigate instantly based on mass reports to see whats happening.

    If abusive reports are a clear trend, the people reporting should be suspended for a day or two to get the idea, a week or two if they keep repeating.
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    Without a doubt, it's harassment.
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    Dolyem wrote: »
    Arya_Yeshe wrote: »
    I understood and I answered the question, it is right there and fully explained.

    Maybe summarize it then? It isn't very clear what your stance is based on that comment.

    I'm against automatic bans, being the target or reporters.

    Well done automatic bans should be based on real cases that were studied and have the precise metrics.
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
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    VoxtriumVoxtrium Member
    edited October 2022
    If a mass report is an obvious attempt to auto ban someone then the mass reporting group should have the same level of ban applied to them as the one that would have been given to the player. This would only be instituted by the in game gms and only when absolutely sure that it was done on purpose as a method of griefing trolling, while also including safety measures like a minimum number of reports etc.

    @Noaani Games auto ban based on a certain number of reports isn't necessarily a sign of dev laziness because oftentimes a certain number of reports is a sign of confirmed cheating of some sort. Would you rather someone run around invincible for 2 hours killing anyone they want everywhere or get reported and temporarily banned till an in game moderator can review it?

    Played overwatch a few days ago and got wrecked by an obviously aimbotting player, he got a x9 report, probably did for every game he played that day, then i played with him again yesterday, again got insta killed by his aim bot, again x9 reported him. Just got a notification today from OW that 1 of my reports resulted in a ban. Dude probably had 300 - 400 reports, yes I wish he had been auto banned till review. With review being less than 24 hours and auto ban requiring a enormous number of reports. And yes an equal reverse punishment for players who mass report for griefing reasons.
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    IskiabIskiab Member
    edited October 2022
    I think any new MMO should go hard on everything. Wow had one of the worst gaming communities ever, they'll definitely try all the same shenanigans in whatever new game they play.

    In other words don't make set punishments. Instead give GMs lots of discretion and set some examples early. Suspension for a week seems fair, be unfair to begin and perma-ban the first people who do it.
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    SongRuneSongRune Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited October 2022
    Iskiab wrote: »
    I think any new MMO should go hard on everything. Wow had one of the worst gaming communities ever, they'll definitely try all the same shenanigans in whatever new game they play.

    In other words don't make set punishments. Instead give GMs lots of discretion and set some examples early. Suspension for a week seems fair, be unfair to begin and perma-ban the first people who do it.

    Eh. Inconsistency gets people frustrated, and it doesn't gain you much either (in this space). Perma-banning people on their first offense also gives no buffer for mistakes or misjudgements by GMs. Sucks to be unfairly sanctioned, but a warning or suspension for a first time offense is way better than losing your account to a mistake. (Best outcomes if the 'offense count' flag resets after a year of good behavior)

    Warn > Suspend > Ban will take slightly longer to get rid of toxic players, but it will get rid of them.
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    novercalisnovercalis Member, Founder, Kickstarter
    I am for mass reports to handle bots and cheaters. It's the approach of it that matters tho.

    What this game has that most other MMOs dont have is GM RESOURCE.

    I hope its possible that the GM has tools that they can see in-game. Report systems that looks like Quest Logs on the side of our screen. The GM will handle whatever is on their top report quest logs.

    They can opt-in specific reports from outside the game, from dev tickets assigned to them to be higher, sure.
    But they should always see the TOP REPORTED instance players have submitted and quickly verify.

    100 ppl randomly reported someone for cheating, GM can quickly see it pop up in his report "quest" logs and quickly port to player and observe. Is player cheating or not? Same for botters.

    At the same time - GM should have tools to see list of reporters. Hopefully it's coded to see if these ppl are from the same guild - there should be consequence for false report.

    Also REPORT should only happen VISUALLY. YOU MUST SEE THE PLAYER TO REPORT.

    Only exception to that rule is reporting via chat and only thing that can be reported from CHAT is any CHAT RELATED TOS.
    {UPK} United Player Killer - All your loot belongs to us.
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    SathragoSathrago Member
    edited October 2022
    SongRune wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »
    I think any new MMO should go hard on everything. Wow had one of the worst gaming communities ever, they'll definitely try all the same shenanigans in whatever new game they play.

    In other words don't make set punishments. Instead give GMs lots of discretion and set some examples early. Suspension for a week seems fair, be unfair to begin and perma-ban the first people who do it.

    Eh. Inconsistency gets people frustrated, and it doesn't gain you much either (in this space). Perma-banning people on their first offense also gives no buffer for mistakes or misjudgements by GMs. Sucks to be unfairly sanctioned, but a warning or suspension for a first time offense is way better than losing your account to a mistake. (Best outcomes if the 'offense count' flag resets after a year of good behavior)

    Warn > Suspend > Ban will take slightly longer to get rid of toxic players, but it will get rid of them.

    Im sorry but I don't think a warning does anything to deter these problems. There needs to be an actual loss right away. They need to know what losing access to the game means. If they actually like the game they will clean up their act. If they still dont care the second time they are gone. Simple as that.
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    SongRuneSongRune Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Sathrago wrote: »
    SongRune wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »
    I think any new MMO should go hard on everything. Wow had one of the worst gaming communities ever, they'll definitely try all the same shenanigans in whatever new game they play.

    In other words don't make set punishments. Instead give GMs lots of discretion and set some examples early. Suspension for a week seems fair, be unfair to begin and perma-ban the first people who do it.

    Eh. Inconsistency gets people frustrated, and it doesn't gain you much either (in this space). Perma-banning people on their first offense also gives no buffer for mistakes or misjudgements by GMs. Sucks to be unfairly sanctioned, but a warning or suspension for a first time offense is way better than losing your account to a mistake. (Best outcomes if the 'offense count' flag resets after a year of good behavior)

    Warn > Suspend > Ban will take slightly longer to get rid of toxic players, but it will get rid of them.

    Im sorry but I don't think a warning does anything to deter these problems. There needs to be an actual loss right away. They need to know what losing access to the game means. If they actually like the game they will clean up their act. If they still dont care the second time they are gone. Simple as that.

    It's not supposed to. The point of warning is not to deter hardcore assholes. Only bans EVER do that.

    The point of warnings is to deter childish people who need a nudge or clarification of social norms.
    The point of suspensions is to deter trolls and persistent (mental) children who need a reality check.

    Only bans will ever deter assholes, but you can't always tell who you're targeting, and it's usually a waste of GM energy to try to find out. The ones that need banning will ignore the warnings and get banned. We don't need to ban children too.
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    SongRune wrote: »
    Sathrago wrote: »
    SongRune wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »
    I think any new MMO should go hard on everything. Wow had one of the worst gaming communities ever, they'll definitely try all the same shenanigans in whatever new game they play.

    In other words don't make set punishments. Instead give GMs lots of discretion and set some examples early. Suspension for a week seems fair, be unfair to begin and perma-ban the first people who do it.

    Eh. Inconsistency gets people frustrated, and it doesn't gain you much either (in this space). Perma-banning people on their first offense also gives no buffer for mistakes or misjudgements by GMs. Sucks to be unfairly sanctioned, but a warning or suspension for a first time offense is way better than losing your account to a mistake. (Best outcomes if the 'offense count' flag resets after a year of good behavior)

    Warn > Suspend > Ban will take slightly longer to get rid of toxic players, but it will get rid of them.

    Im sorry but I don't think a warning does anything to deter these problems. There needs to be an actual loss right away. They need to know what losing access to the game means. If they actually like the game they will clean up their act. If they still dont care the second time they are gone. Simple as that.

    It's not supposed to. The point of warning is not to deter hardcore assholes. Only bans EVER do that.

    The point of warnings is to deter childish people who need a nudge or clarification of social norms.
    The point of suspensions is to deter trolls and persistent (mental) children who need a reality check.

    Only bans will ever deter assholes, but you can't always tell who you're targeting, and it's usually a waste of GM energy to try to find out. The ones that need banning will ignore the warnings and get banned. We don't need to ban children too.

    Why not? If they dont learn from the first suspension they do not belong in the game. The first time you get suspended a normal person should then be hyper aware of any other rule-breaking. At that point the BS is dealt with or the re-offend and are removed. A warning just lets them be aware that there is a problem with what they did, they might just go ahead and try to do it again in a sneaky way because "I only got a warning lul".

    People need to learn to follow the rules or get kicked in the dick. That's how you create a less-toxic community. A great example of this was FF14 stream snipers going after Asmongold. The second those first few people got suspended the rest scattered like roaches when a light is turned on. He didn't have that problem ever again.

    You slaughter a few to deter the masses.
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