NiKr wrote: » Ah, you decided to make it its own thread. The whole point of owpvp is to have soft friction that facilitates said pvp and scarce resources and long respawns facilitate that soft friction. Having more bosses would only give those big guilds more resources, because a big guild can have enough people to spread out across several timezones, while smaller guilds can realistically only play within their primetime. And if the server has one primetime that bosses can respawn in (with maybe even a random point within that primetime), this would give those smaller guilds an opportunity to get together and plan out their course of actions to try and prevent a bigger guild from getting the boss.
Vyril wrote: » You might as well just only turn the server on for prime time.
Vyril wrote: » The key is drop rate balance and recipe requirements. Raids maybe, you can put them on longer timers, but just doesnt make sense for 8/16 man content.
Vyril wrote: » Bosses should spawn often 30m - 4hrs. ... There is just no reasonable way people could obtain sufficient components if respawns are on long extended timers.
NiKr wrote: » Vyril wrote: » You might as well just only turn the server on for prime time. I'm, like, 80% sure people would fucking love that. No complaining about "this guy plays 20h a day while I can only play 30 minutes", no complaining about "they play during the off hours so they're constantly ahead of us and we'll never catch up", and the overall love for the session-based games of the current generation would probably boost the first mmo to do session-based gameplay quite high. Vyril wrote: » The key is drop rate balance and recipe requirements. Raids maybe, you can put them on longer timers, but just doesnt make sense for 8/16 man content. By having a low droprate (lower than whatever Intrepid wanted to go with) you're yet again dooming any guild/party that's unable to farm all 4 respawns of the boss, while the big guild that has several parties at several times of the day will in fact farm them all and will have a higher compounded chance to drop anything. I personally would love if bosses with nice drops would respawn at the crack of dawn, because I know that I'm gonna be playing during those hours and I'd find people who'd be playing with me. And then I'd farm the next boss that respawns when the normal people go to work. And then the next one, when they have lunch. And then I can sleep while they enjoy their one boss during prime time.
Strevi wrote: » Vyril wrote: » Bosses should spawn often 30m - 4hrs. ... There is just no reasonable way people could obtain sufficient components if respawns are on long extended timers. And fast travel? And UI to find groups easily? Maybe cross-realm instancing?
Vyril wrote: » Strevi wrote: » Vyril wrote: » Bosses should spawn often 30m - 4hrs. ... There is just no reasonable way people could obtain sufficient components if respawns are on long extended timers. And fast travel? And UI to find groups easily? Maybe cross-realm instancing? What?
Strevi wrote: » Vyril wrote: » Strevi wrote: » Vyril wrote: » Bosses should spawn often 30m - 4hrs. ... There is just no reasonable way people could obtain sufficient components if respawns are on long extended timers. And fast travel? And UI to find groups easily? Maybe cross-realm instancing? What? Typical pve grinding playstyle needs them.
Vyril wrote: » Strevi wrote: » Vyril wrote: » Strevi wrote: » Vyril wrote: » Bosses should spawn often 30m - 4hrs. ... There is just no reasonable way people could obtain sufficient components if respawns are on long extended timers. And fast travel? And UI to find groups easily? Maybe cross-realm instancing? What? Typical pve grinding playstyle needs them. Use the same methods gathers do, when they grind materials. Walk back to town.
Vyril wrote: » You are ultimately negating everyone that plays during the day, or have guilds under 16 players. That will be overshadowed and underpowered by the 4k+ others players on during prime time.
Vyril wrote: » You're making wild assumptions on your percentages, and it's a pretty hot take on what you think people want.
NiKr wrote: » Vyril wrote: » You are ultimately negating everyone that plays during the day, or have guilds under 16 players. That will be overshadowed and underpowered by the 4k+ others players on during prime time. Those small guilds would be able to work together to stand up against bigger guilds or stronger parties. And there'd be more smaller guilds during primetime than during the day (purely because normal people got jobs and shit). And as you said yourself, there's already a ton of primetime stuff in the game, so some of the stronger guilds might have a bigger event going on, so those smaller ones would be able to snag a boss in the meantime. And all the people that play during the day would have more ways to make money that would then let them buy the gear that they can't farm during primetime. That's the beauty of free market and non-BoE/P gear. Vyril wrote: » You're making wild assumptions on your percentages, and it's a pretty hot take on what you think people want. I still left 20% of unsureness just because I haven't polled people on this topic or discussed it at length with a wide variety of players. But what I based my assumption on is the dozens of threads that start with "I'm a father and over 30, I ain't got time to grind, please make it so that I can still do content in the game" and "how will my small guild fight against the 16h/d nerd guilds that dominate everything?" Both of those issues would be solved by having primetime-only gameplay. There's a reason why games have spikey online. And, as has been said by a lot of people, pvp in mmos is quite often hated because it's usually initiated by those who have more power. And quite often that power comes from them grinding the game for a ton of time every day. A primetime mmo would drastically level out the playing field. But I'm sure that no one is crazy enough to even try and make such an mmo, so we'll never know whether I'm correct or not.
worddog wrote: » That sounds awful tbh. The best part of video games is the accessibility. You can sit down on your couch or at your desk and just play a game for as long or as little as you want, no need to drive anywhere or make plans. I don't think anyone wants a pointless time restriction on when they can and cant play the video game they paid for.
NiKr wrote: » worddog wrote: » That sounds awful tbh. The best part of video games is the accessibility. You can sit down on your couch or at your desk and just play a game for as long or as little as you want, no need to drive anywhere or make plans. I don't think anyone wants a pointless time restriction on when they can and cant play the video game they paid for. And the majority of people don't have more than 5h a day to play. And iirc, most people play 1-2h a day. So while a few nerds won't be able to play the game for days on end, they also can use that time to play any other game, while the people with limited time can play an mmo with balanced pvp for a change (outside of GW2 arena of course).
worddog wrote: » NiKr wrote: » Vyril wrote: » You might as well just only turn the server on for prime time. I'm, like, 80% sure people would fucking love that. No complaining about "this guy plays 20h a day while I can only play 30 minutes", no complaining about "they play during the off hours so they're constantly ahead of us and we'll never catch up", and the overall love for the session-based games of the current generation would probably boost the first mmo to do session-based gameplay quite high. Vyril wrote: » The key is drop rate balance and recipe requirements. Raids maybe, you can put them on longer timers, but just doesnt make sense for 8/16 man content. By having a low droprate (lower than whatever Intrepid wanted to go with) you're yet again dooming any guild/party that's unable to farm all 4 respawns of the boss, while the big guild that has several parties at several times of the day will in fact farm them all and will have a higher compounded chance to drop anything. I personally would love if bosses with nice drops would respawn at the crack of dawn, because I know that I'm gonna be playing during those hours and I'd find people who'd be playing with me. And then I'd farm the next boss that respawns when the normal people go to work. And then the next one, when they have lunch. And then I can sleep while they enjoy their one boss during prime time. That sounds awful tbh. The best part of video games is the accessibility. You can sit down on your couch or at your desk and just play a game for as long or as little as you want, no need to drive anywhere or make plans. I don't think anyone wants a pointless time restriction on when they can and cant play the video game they paid for.
Vyril wrote: » You keep making up numbers. Lots of college kids play games that dont have anything going on during the day but go out at night, or stay up past 9pm lol. People work 2nd and 3rd shifts. Do the majority of people play in prime time yes, but not all if them. What about weekends ? Your solution isn't the best, so I suggest you keep trying.
JamesSunderland wrote: » Bosses respawn timers aren't very reasonable to be argued on without knowing how many of them are out there.but 30min certainly isn't a very reasonable boss respawn time, maybe a elite monster/mini boss respawn time works well with 30min. Way too fast respawn timers diminishes the content value and makes them repetitive/boring WAY faster. Also, when you say bosses, are you talking about all types of bosses? Currently, according to the wiki, we know of 4 types of bosses: Raid bosses(~12~15 of them), Dungeons bosses(?), World Bosses (?) and Legendary World Bosses(?) With ~12~15 raid bosses i would expect a respawn time of around ~6~8 hours for them, No idea about Dungeon bosses without knowning how many there are, World bosses probably ~36~60 hours? Legendary World Bosses probably once a week per respawn?
Vyril wrote: » JamesSunderland wrote: » Bosses respawn timers aren't very reasonable to be argued on without knowing how many of them are out there.but 30min certainly isn't a very reasonable boss respawn time, maybe a elite monster/mini boss respawn time works well with 30min. Way too fast respawn timers diminishes the content value and makes them repetitive/boring WAY faster. Also, when you say bosses, are you talking about all types of bosses? Currently, according to the wiki, we know of 4 types of bosses: Raid bosses(~12~15 of them), Dungeons bosses(?), World Bosses (?) and Legendary World Bosses(?) With ~12~15 raid bosses i would expect a respawn time of around ~6~8 hours for them, No idea about Dungeon bosses without knowning how many there are, World bosses probably ~36~60 hours? Legendary World Bosses probably once a week per respawn? Dungeon, small group content 8/16. Player base of 10k not concurrent but log in that day. Let's say 20 dungeons and for sake of calculation. Only 1 boss. 6 hour respawn. 4x a day. 80 kills a day. Each kill can only be claimed by 1 group. Only 640 unique players get kills. 1280 if all bosses need 16 players. Now in reality, you will reduce those unique players because server politics and guild dominance and you're likely looking at 3-7% unique players get boss kills. Screw the 93%, well we can knock off a generous 50% of players that do other content. So roughly 43% of players won't get to kill a boss that would likely want to. So what are the players left to do in the game? Harvest mats grind basic mobs ? Hypothetically of course. Based on hypothetical numbers. A big part of the game is the economy, if large section of players cant contribute with meaningful loot it's going to cause issues. Caravans and ships need to be filled, or that content is dead.
