I am not saying I want this for Ashes, but are there any MMOs out there with XP caps per day? I know some do caps for other stuff, like energy and whatnot, but I have never seen one with XP caps. I am curious to see how that worked out. I am guessing most people hate it.
I am not saying I want this for Ashes, but are there any MMOs out there with XP caps per day? I know some do caps for other stuff, like energy and whatnot, but I have never seen one with XP caps. I am curious to see how that worked out. I am guessing most people hate it.
Ofc there are, let me introduce you to the amazing world of mobile MMOs most mobile MMOs have a max level you can get to each day, to make it "fair" for the casuals.
This is the absolute most dogshit garbage thing I ever experienced, last game I endured with this was Tower of Fantasy, complete Dogshit because once you got to the cap there's absolutely nothing to do besides waiting for the reset because you don't want to waste XP, I never spoke to anyone that likes this even people that are used to mobile gaming.
leveling speed can be as slow as it wants tbh i dont care aslong as the PvE/PvP and trade school content is there for the whole experience. Most ofd the games these days the game only starts when you hit max level which is silly which is dumb if leveling is slow tbh the whole leveling process is pointless when the actual game begins at max level and the leveling process is treated as a tutorial
I really don't want them to drag out the leveling on the way to max level castle siege operations which should be one of the most intense and exciting activities AoC will offer.
The major open question for me here is a dopamine reward after levelcap.
During levelling I have an reward expectation on each level. Ability to equip new armor/sword. Ability to start questline in higher level location. Ability to beat that mob which kicked my ass yesterday.
But once I reached level cap, what will support the dopamine? Do the f*ing hard questline for rare sword? Maybe. Improve gearscore to manage next dungeon? Also maybe... What else?
I really don't want them to drag out the leveling on the way to max level castle siege operations which should be one of the most intense and exciting activities AoC will offer.
Castle sieges don't have to be only at max lvl. You just link their defenses (be that initial mobs or the npc guards) to the highest leveled up node under its control and you have yourself a top lvl content w/o it being max lvl content.
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ILLPeonUMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
We know that Steven intends for leveling to 50 to take about 45 days at 4-6 hours a days. So, 180-270 hours. Presumably, that that estimate of leveling time is intended for those who join on day 1 of release. Players that join on day 1 and play actively will have a slower time to level as those players will need to wait for the nodes to develop or the player will need to level against mobs much lower level than the player or complete quests that are intended for much lower level players. So, players that start on release take 180-270 hours to level but that is very slow leveling due to undeveloped nodes.
If all this is right, then a new player joining a few months after release and going to a metropolis area while reading a couple leveling guides will probably level to max in far less than the projected 180+ hours.
I think that when the leveling speed balance is tested in A2, IS should aim for the 180+ hours to be the target for players that join late and can immediately go into developed areas. This means that the leveling speed would be much slower on release; but, the intended effort of leveling can be maintained for the life of the game.
What do you guys think?
I would imagine there is some truth to this, new players down the road will have the advantage of developed nodes, higher level players willing to help them and , along with gear upgrades and or some financial help from friends to speed up the process. Which I have no problem with at all.
TwitchTV Streamer: The Hidden Dagger Inn Saturday's 5:00 PM Cst
What if abilities at lvl25 worked just fine against lvl50, but their dmg was obviously lower and augmentations wouldn't be there yet because you gotta level up to get the augment points.
This way even players at lvl25, who would have the full archetype skillset, could still do smth in pvp against higher lvls. And I'd imagine that it'd barely take any time to get to lvl25.
This approach would work well if you could spend multiple points to level up your abilities. You could just put 1 point into each to unlock your full kit by 25, then go back and start pumping abilities you want to focus on in your build to get stronger. If this is the case, I'd like each additional point in an ability to add additional effects, not just increase damage or whatever, as that's kind of boring and doesn't make you feel as good spending ability points. Things such as - Larger radius for fireball, increasing the number of arrows fired in a Spread Shot, additional stored charges for a teleport/dash.
Do they plan on having abilities with multiple levels or do you just unlock abilities, followed by the augment?
This is just a rough idea and maybe I’m just old fashioned but I’d like it closer to this.
5 hours to get to lvl 5 o.O.
Can't say i agree the starting experience should be slow like that. Shouldn't be taking 5 hour to get levels 1-5. That should be part of the learning experience where they are getting some points and getting to know the game and getting familiar with character progression.
We also have end game as well, reaching max level shouldn't be the end of content but the gate that opens even more content and getting to do higher tier content.
I prefer what the goal already being set is tbh.
*edit this includes people saying it should take half a year or a year to get max level.
Unless they take the BDO approach and have levels that give very minimal bouses but are the hard cap and extremely slow to gain levels with.
We know that Steven intends for leveling to 50 to take about 45 days at 4-6 hours a days. So, 180-270 hours. Presumably, that that estimate of leveling time is intended for those who join on day 1 of release. Players that join on day 1 and play actively will have a slower time to level as those players will need to wait for the nodes to develop or the player will need to level against mobs much lower level than the player or complete quests that are intended for much lower level players. So, players that start on release take 180-270 hours to level but that is very slow leveling due to undeveloped nodes.
If all this is right, then a new player joining a few months after release and going to a metropolis area while reading a couple leveling guides will probably level to max in far less than the projected 180+ hours.
I think that when the leveling speed balance is tested in A2, IS should aim for the 180+ hours to be the target for players that join late and can immediately go into developed areas. This means that the leveling speed would be much slower on release; but, the intended effort of leveling can be maintained for the life of the game.
What do you guys think?
My Hot take
Leveling should take 500 hours.
Add in Hell Levels at 10,20,30,40,45,48,49
These Hell levels are 4x the required XP.
Let's enjoy the inbetween stuff instead of players rushing to max.
This will SLIGHTLY discourage sweaties trying to no-sleep 2-3 days grind and hopefully chill them out as they realize it's a mountain of a climb. It's an endurance not a race.
500 / 12 hours = ~42 days
500 / 10 hours = 50 days
500 / 8 hours = ~62 days
500 / 6 hours = ~82 days
500 / 4 hours = 125 days
ASSUMING there is great content and fun stuff to do as a level 10/20/30/40. Events, dungeons and lots of areas that requires grouping.
Everquest - even today standard on P99 it takes 2-3 months to hit max level and the leveling in Everquest is enjoyable.
This won't work, you are only affecting the casuals. Level as people know is a system to protect them but there needs to be a balance.
The more time you put as a gate for leveling the more ahead hardcore players will be with casuals having a longer time before they can even catch up to them.
No hardcore player is going to be like that is so much time I'm not going to level, they will grind and book all the time they need off and play for 15-18 hours a day and refuse to sleep.
Myself being a player that will likely be on 3-4 hours each day during the work week and 10+ hours a day on the weekend... I hope that my leveling experience will take 6 weeks minimum. I can see myself spending a good 30 hours a week if this game pans out to be all they aspire to be. 6 weeks at 30 hours is 180 hours. I have no issue of leveling taking someone 180-200 hours to reach max level at a minimum. There will be videos and min maxing content out there.... so hopefully even with that considered, leveling will still take over 4 weeks to level while playing 30+ hours a week. If I hope to play a game for years... why not have it worthwhile and it not feel like the same old grind 100 hours in ?....
As far as for new players entering the game. CREATE MEANINGFUL CONTENT that rewards the experienced players for helping the new players. Create content that does not feel like a boring chore for the one helping the ones in need of help. I hope as a level 30 I am still excited to jump in and help level 5 Guild members to clear content beyond just having the feeling of " This is necessary in growing the guild and being able to attack higher end content in a few months." If they can do this, the leveling to 50 or whatever ceiling they decide will be much more enjoyable!
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FantmxMember, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
The longer the better. The only reason to rush to max level is lack of meaningful content.
I like longer leveling, but as long as it is relevant. There should be interesting and dynamic content to complete at level 10 as well as level 50. I also like the idea of having some kind of spec-based leveling that allowed players to gain ever so slight % stat gains for gear through use. Or plenty of horizontal options for character progression. It should feel like your character is progressing and developing over time in an MMORPG. Not just capping max level then chasing an ever-changing BIS gear treadmill.
I don't mind long levelling if there is a support network throughout levelling. Nothing is worse than endless levelling at fractional xp gains just to artificially make the levelling longer. Better plans are required to balance the whole objective of a longer levelling time.
We know that Steven intends for leveling to 50 to take about 45 days at 4-6 hours a days. So, 180-270 hours. Presumably, that that estimate of leveling time is intended for those who join on day 1 of release. Players that join on day 1 and play actively will have a slower time to level as those players will need to wait for the nodes to develop or the player will need to level against mobs much lower level than the player or complete quests that are intended for much lower level players. So, players that start on release take 180-270 hours to level but that is very slow leveling due to undeveloped nodes.
If all this is right, then a new player joining a few months after release and going to a metropolis area while reading a couple leveling guides will probably level to max in far less than the projected 180+ hours.
I think that when the leveling speed balance is tested in A2, IS should aim for the 180+ hours to be the target for players that join late and can immediately go into developed areas. This means that the leveling speed would be much slower on release; but, the intended effort of leveling can be maintained for the life of the game.
What do you guys think?
If high level nodes will effect new player's leveling speed because of high level nodes provide more activities and resources etc for new player to gain XP and leveling, I think it's a good thing like 5%~20% faster than players join on day 1 is ok to me.
The acknowledge about the game is the true gap for new player to catch up IMO, how good does the game(and the community IMO) teach and guide new player to learn those things is more important to me.
Logarithmic curves. The only correct answer and I'll explain why.
With a game like Ashes that has a lot of horizontal avenues for advancement, getting people through the 'tutorial' quickly is important. In order for PvP and PvX to have a good play loop you generally need a certain threshold of abilities and customization in order to actually have a good time. Once you get past this tutorial, feeling a sharp increase in vertical power and a clear correlation between 'effort in and reward in your build/gear out' is a good way to keep new players hooked.
But you eventually must slow down the closer you get to max level in order to nudge players to eventually find the horizontal goals that appeal to them most. Players that don't find horizontal goals, especially in a game with a much smaller emphasis on the themepark, will tend to leave the game. Without that feeling of slower inertia towards the end, most players will just 'assume you MUST be max level for the REAL game to start' and that just simply doesn't sound like the game Ashes has described itself as for so long. So for those compounding reasons I feel like max level itself should take quite long but the journey to that last 10-20% should be in the way described to maximize retention and the over all pleasantness of the leveling experience.
Players that don't find horizontal goals, especially in a game with a much smaller emphasis on the themepark, will tend to leave the game.
Classes and how you build your character usually are the mean to offer a different gameplay style.
But some want to know the meta and leave the game fast anyway. Because the game is not their main mmo.
Comments
Ofc there are, let me introduce you to the amazing world of mobile MMOs
This is the absolute most dogshit garbage thing I ever experienced, last game I endured with this was Tower of Fantasy, complete Dogshit because once you got to the cap there's absolutely nothing to do besides waiting for the reset because you don't want to waste XP, I never spoke to anyone that likes this even people that are used to mobile gaming.
During levelling I have an reward expectation on each level. Ability to equip new armor/sword. Ability to start questline in higher level location. Ability to beat that mob which kicked my ass yesterday.
But once I reached level cap, what will support the dopamine? Do the f*ing hard questline for rare sword? Maybe. Improve gearscore to manage next dungeon? Also maybe... What else?
I would imagine there is some truth to this, new players down the road will have the advantage of developed nodes, higher level players willing to help them and , along with gear upgrades and or some financial help from friends to speed up the process. Which I have no problem with at all.
https://youtube.com/@TheHiddenDaggerInn
This approach would work well if you could spend multiple points to level up your abilities. You could just put 1 point into each to unlock your full kit by 25, then go back and start pumping abilities you want to focus on in your build to get stronger. If this is the case, I'd like each additional point in an ability to add additional effects, not just increase damage or whatever, as that's kind of boring and doesn't make you feel as good spending ability points. Things such as - Larger radius for fireball, increasing the number of arrows fired in a Spread Shot, additional stored charges for a teleport/dash.
Do they plan on having abilities with multiple levels or do you just unlock abilities, followed by the augment?
5 hours to get to lvl 5 o.O.
Can't say i agree the starting experience should be slow like that. Shouldn't be taking 5 hour to get levels 1-5. That should be part of the learning experience where they are getting some points and getting to know the game and getting familiar with character progression.
We also have end game as well, reaching max level shouldn't be the end of content but the gate that opens even more content and getting to do higher tier content.
I prefer what the goal already being set is tbh.
*edit this includes people saying it should take half a year or a year to get max level.
Unless they take the BDO approach and have levels that give very minimal bouses but are the hard cap and extremely slow to gain levels with.
This won't work, you are only affecting the casuals. Level as people know is a system to protect them but there needs to be a balance.
The more time you put as a gate for leveling the more ahead hardcore players will be with casuals having a longer time before they can even catch up to them.
No hardcore player is going to be like that is so much time I'm not going to level, they will grind and book all the time they need off and play for 15-18 hours a day and refuse to sleep.
As far as for new players entering the game. CREATE MEANINGFUL CONTENT that rewards the experienced players for helping the new players. Create content that does not feel like a boring chore for the one helping the ones in need of help. I hope as a level 30 I am still excited to jump in and help level 5 Guild members to clear content beyond just having the feeling of " This is necessary in growing the guild and being able to attack higher end content in a few months." If they can do this, the leveling to 50 or whatever ceiling they decide will be much more enjoyable!
If high level nodes will effect new player's leveling speed because of high level nodes provide more activities and resources etc for new player to gain XP and leveling, I think it's a good thing like 5%~20% faster than players join on day 1 is ok to me.
The acknowledge about the game is the true gap for new player to catch up IMO, how good does the game(and the community IMO) teach and guide new player to learn those things is more important to me.
↓Good youtube channel to learn things about creating games.↓
Masahiro Sakurai on Creating Games:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCv1DvRY5PyHHt3KN9ghunuw
Most gamers will play something else or go back to their previous mmo where it's less effort to enjoy a mmo.
With a game like Ashes that has a lot of horizontal avenues for advancement, getting people through the 'tutorial' quickly is important. In order for PvP and PvX to have a good play loop you generally need a certain threshold of abilities and customization in order to actually have a good time. Once you get past this tutorial, feeling a sharp increase in vertical power and a clear correlation between 'effort in and reward in your build/gear out' is a good way to keep new players hooked.
But you eventually must slow down the closer you get to max level in order to nudge players to eventually find the horizontal goals that appeal to them most. Players that don't find horizontal goals, especially in a game with a much smaller emphasis on the themepark, will tend to leave the game. Without that feeling of slower inertia towards the end, most players will just 'assume you MUST be max level for the REAL game to start' and that just simply doesn't sound like the game Ashes has described itself as for so long. So for those compounding reasons I feel like max level itself should take quite long but the journey to that last 10-20% should be in the way described to maximize retention and the over all pleasantness of the leveling experience.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yhr9WpjaDzw
Exactly why im against people saying it should take half a year or a year to get max level than plus end on top of it.
Edit* I only mean if people that are playing like 10 hours a day + in time frame so 1800+ hours to reach max lvl.
But some want to know the meta and leave the game fast anyway. Because the game is not their main mmo.