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Create a dedicated "family friendly" server

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Comments

  • novercalisnovercalis Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    im offended as well. is this reportable?
    {UPK} United Player Killer - All your loot belongs to us.
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    Strevi wrote: »
    Players would slap each other instead of using weapons? :)
    Maybe pillow fighting?

    lmaooooooooo. can i put bricks inside the pillow cases?
  • TheDarkSorcererTheDarkSorcerer Member, Alpha Two
    edited November 2022
    NiKr wrote: »
    So far the community of Ashes have been great and very far from toxic.
    3awcjnqpc2qw.gif

    Stop it! :joy:
    m6jque7ofxxf.gif
  • BaSkA_9x2BaSkA_9x2 Member, Alpha Two
    I have a better alternative: allow people to completely disable all kind of text & voice chat. Cheaper and more effective.

    If that's not enough, then maybe grow a spine, respectfully.

    Cheers
    🎶Galo é Galo o resto é bosta🎶
  • Ninja KittyNinja Kitty Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited November 2022
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Some questions

    1. If someone is saying extreme bad take jokes that are clearly very offensive towards you why not report them? [...]
    2. Why not join a guild that has the same goals as you in mind or make one?
    3. A server name is just a name anyone can join. [...] So how are you expecting the gms to take in account both viewpoints, "Safe space" is a pretty subjective term....[...] Feels like a lot of work to deal with, when it be best to play with more people like minded and that way you can guild boot anyone against your ideals.

    @Mag7spy

    1. I have reported these kinds of things, and even reported very real harassment in games. The response I received from blizzard customer support basically told me that it was my own fault for running a community. Because of the similarity, I'll add in my response to some other people's responses that basically expect me to be responsible for 'reporting or blocking' people who have offended me or harassed me. This system worked great.... until one day, playing wow, I got the error message, 'Ignore list full. Cannot add any more players to ignore list,' or something along those lines. Basically, putting the onus entirely on players to block and ignore all toxic people is unfair and tantamount to victim blaming. I'm really just asking for Intrepid to create 1 server where they militantly enforce their TOS. Let's be honest, if they actually banned all people who were toxic or reported for violating the TOS, they would lose a large number of the player base. I get that. The game wants to make money, and many people are toxic. I'm just asking for 1 server where breaking those rules has REAL consequences that are swiftly and meaningfully enforced. I would see it working like this: First reported offense deserving action gives you a 24 hour band from the safe space server only. Second offense 7 day ban from the safe space server only. Third offense, 30 day ban from the safe space server only; Fourth offense permanently banned from the safe space server only. You get 3 chances, because we are all human, but by that 4 offense, clearly you don't belong on this server and you don't understand the community that server is trying to build.
    2. I have joined countless guilds in WoW over the years. They ALL claim in their explicitly stated rules that they require all members to 'treat each other with respect' and that 'hate speech will not be tolerated.' Inevitably, all theses guilds tell racist, sexist jokes. They post racist and sexist memes. Disgusting memes, etc. "it's just a joke." 'Can't you take a joke?!" Well, no, no I can't. When I'm the butt of your 'jokes,' no, it's not funny to me at all. My favorite response when I start reporting guildmates for harrasment or hate speech from officers is, "well they were just trying to see who could be the most offensive, they didn't really mean anything they said, they were just trying to be offensive." AS IF THAT LOGIC EVEN MAKES SENSE? If you're 'trying to be offensive,' that makes it ok to be offensive???? Suddenly that means it's not against the rules, as long as you were just trying to be offensive.
    3. I think my suggestions for how to operate the safe space server might answer this question also. I'll just add the fact that, with a 4 strikes system, and only 1 server being monitored this closely, I think it would be manageable. Most games rely on a player report system anyway. And if the server has an additional disclaimer in the beginning that even goes so far as to force people to type out acknowledgment statements, it could work. The whole point of this server is to get rid of the people who go around telling people kys; uninstall, you suck at the game, etc. Some things are pretty darn obvious. Where the gray area exists, well, that will exist everywhere else anyway. It's not like I'm asking for anything more. I'm just asking for a dedicated server that will actually ban people for toxicity that might otherwise not be total account bannable. Additionally, WoW had rp servers. It's not really that much different. On the rp server, my gonme mage was reported and forced to have a name change because it wasn't 'rp compliant,' I was told there was nothing wrong with my name, if she was a troll, it would have been ok. I mean.... how much more subjective could that have been? Yet a major game company took the time to force me to change my name so that it could be 'rp compliant' as a gnome mage. smh.

    In response to everyone who is saying, 'no,' to my request, I want to ask, why? Why does it bother you so much that I'm asking for a safe space? How would this hurt you or your gameplay? If you don't want to be on this server, don't. Just like rp servers, if you don't want to rp, don't be on that server. And if you want try and say rp servers are completely different, well, no, not really. It's just a server with a specific culture in mind. Our role play just so happens to be the part of a non-toxic gamer. What's so wrong with that?
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    It would take precious resources away from the studio. We'd rather they be spend on stuff that matters.
  • Ninja KittyNinja Kitty Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Enough. Stop bashing

    Big brain, they hoped people bashed and used all the buzzwords hook, line and sinker. I honestly don't think they will answer my post.


    4xkjhaidcxq0.png

    your post is actually the only one I came back to respond to specifically because you asked questions in a polite way... but now I see that maybe I misjudged you....
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    edited November 2022
    1. I have reported these kinds of things
    , and even reported very real harassment in games. The response I received from blizzard customer support basically told me that it was my own fault for running a community. Because of the similarity, I'll add in my response to some other people's responses that basically expect me to be responsible for 'reporting or blocking' people who have offended me or harassed me. This system worked great.... until one day, playing wow, I got the error message, 'Ignore list full. Cannot add any more players to ignore list,' or something along those lines. Basically, putting the onus entirely on players to block and ignore all toxic people is unfair and tantamount to victim blaming. I'm really just asking for Intrepid to create 1 server where they militantly enforce their TOS. Let's be honest, if they actually banned all people who were toxic or reported for violating the TOS, they would lose a large number of the player base. I get that. The game wants to make money, and many people are toxic. I'm just asking for 1 server where breaking those rules has REAL consequences that are swiftly and meaningfully enforced. I would see it working like this: First reported offense deserving action gives you a 24 hour band from the safe space server only. Second offense 7 day ban from the safe space server only. Third offense, 30 day ban from the safe space server only; Fourth offense permanently banned from the safe space server only. You get 3 chances, because we are all human, but by that 4 offense, clearly you don't belong on this server and you don't understand the community that server is trying to build.
    So Blizzard fucked up in their design and CS. We should hold Intrepid to a higher standard. I expect them to mute/ban repeated offenders of racist/sexist/etc attacks.
    2. I have joined countless guilds in WoW over the years.
    They ALL claim in their explicitly stated rules that they require all members to 'treat each other with respect' and that 'hate speech will not be tolerated.' Inevitably, all theses guilds tell racist, sexist jokes. They post racist and sexist memes. Disgusting memes, etc. "it's just a joke." 'Can't you take a joke?!" Well, no, no I can't. When I'm the butt of your 'jokes,' no, it's not funny to me at all. My favorite response when I start reporting guildmates for harrasment or hate speech from officers is, "well they were just trying to see who could be the most offensive, they didn't really mean anything they said, they were just trying to be offensive." AS IF THAT LOGIC EVEN MAKES SENSE? If you're 'trying to be offensive,' that makes it ok to be offensive???? Suddenly that means it's not against the rules, as long as you were just trying to be offensive.
    So this sounds like you could just make your own guild and keep it the way you want it to be. I've done so countless times throughout the years of playing Lineage 2 (which some people call super toxic). I kicked people when they were dumbasses and stopped most unproductive conflict in guild chat when I saw it, because it didn't help the guild. Anyone who disliked my rulings could go fuck themselves. Be the tyrannical good you want to see in the world.
    3. I think my suggestions for how to operate the safe space server might answer this question also.
    I'll just add the fact that, with a 4 strikes system, and only 1 server being monitored this closely, I think it would be manageable. Most games rely on a player report system anyway. And if the server has an additional disclaimer in the beginning that even goes so far as to force people to type out acknowledgment statements, it could work. The whole point of this server is to get rid of the people who go around telling people kys; uninstall, you suck at the game, etc. Some things are pretty darn obvious. Where the gray area exists, well, that will exist everywhere else anyway. It's not like I'm asking for anything more. I'm just asking for a dedicated server that will actually ban people for toxicity that might otherwise not be total account bannable. Additionally, WoW had rp servers. It's not really that much different. On the rp server, my gonme mage was reported and forced to have a name change because it wasn't 'rp compliant,' I was told there was nothing wrong with my name, if she was a troll, it would have been ok. I mean.... how much more subjective could that have been? Yet a major game company took the time to force me to change my name so that it could be 'rp compliant' as a gnome mage. smh.
    I don't want special treatments for different people. I want everyone to be treated well. If Intrepid can't uphold peace in their general chat, I'd be quite disappointed in them.
    In response to everyone who is saying, 'no,' to my request, I want to ask, why?
    Why does it bother you so much that I'm asking for a safe space? How would this hurt you or your gameplay? If you don't want to be on this server, don't. Just like rp servers, if you don't want to rp, don't be on that server. And if you want try and say rp servers are completely different, well, no, not really. It's just a server with a specific culture in mind. Our role play just so happens to be the part of a non-toxic gamer. What's so wrong with that?
    Because I want everyone to be treated the same way and not just one server out of potential dozens.
  • You see, I have no issue with you wanting that, I have an issue with you attacking people and somehow playing victim once they slightly disagree with you.

    Alternatively, if you can't find what you want, create it. Create a community for people like you, if it thrives, good, if it fails, at least you tried...that option yields the same results you're looking to get and without added cost/time wasted for devs.
  • Ninja KittyNinja Kitty Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    StarPT wrote: »
    You see, I have no issue with you wanting that, I have an issue with you attacking people and somehow playing victim once they slightly disagree with you.
    @StarPT
    Who did I attack? Can you please quote me where you think I have "attacked" someone?
    When did I play the victim, when I was not the victim? can you please quote me where you think I have 'played the victim'?
  • StarPT wrote: »
    You see, I have no issue with you wanting that, I have an issue with you attacking people and somehow playing victim once they slightly disagree with you.
    @StarPT
    Who did I attack? Can you please quote me where you think I have "attacked" someone?
    When did I play the victim, when I was not the victim? can you please quote me where you think I have 'played the victim'?

    I mean, I could quote discord, yes...but do I need to?
  • Ninja KittyNinja Kitty Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited November 2022
    @StarPT

    First of all, if you want to make accusations, yes, you need to be able to back them up. Otherwise, they are just baseless ad hominem accusatory white noise with 0 contribution to the discussion.

    Second of all, this is the Ashes forum where I made a post requesting a server dedicated to a non-toxic gaming community. Discord has nothing to do with my post here. If you concede that my original post here on the forum and my responses to people so far in this forum were not "attacks" and that I did not "play the victim" (unless prepared to quote from them as the basis of your argument); then, and only then, will I happily entertain your argument of whatever screenshots you want to take from discord to accuse me of these things. Assuming they are mine, I have no problem defending myself or owning up to my mistakes and apologizing.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Enough. Stop bashing

    Big brain, they hoped people bashed and used all the buzzwords hook, line and sinker. I honestly don't think they will answer my post.


    4xkjhaidcxq0.png

    your post is actually the only one I came back to respond to specifically because you asked questions in a polite way... but now I see that maybe I misjudged you....

    This would be comedy, with multiple levels of memes, nothing wrong with this post of mine.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    StarPT wrote: »
    StarPT wrote: »
    You see, I have no issue with you wanting that, I have an issue with you attacking people and somehow playing victim once they slightly disagree with you.
    @StarPT
    Who did I attack? Can you please quote me where you think I have "attacked" someone?
    When did I play the victim, when I was not the victim? can you please quote me where you think I have 'played the victim'?

    I mean, I could quote discord, yes...but do I need to?

    discord?
  • maouwmaouw Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    StarPT wrote: »
    You see, I have no issue with you wanting that, I have an issue with you attacking people and somehow playing victim once they slightly disagree with you.
    @StarPT
    Who did I attack? Can you please quote me where you think I have "attacked" someone?
    When did I play the victim, when I was not the victim? can you please quote me where you think I have 'played the victim'?

    Please listen carefully, because this is how everyone on the forums is percieving your post:
    For those of us who don't want to <judgement>
    ^ This is casting a judgement
    For those of us who don't want to <judgement>
    ^ This is playing the victim, because you're implying that your rights are being infringed

    Those judgements are:
    ... the toxic locker room talk.
    translation: people on regular servers are toxic, I am not.
    ... the racist jokes, the sexist jokes, the raunchy jokes.
    translation: people on regular servers are racist, sexist and raunchy, but I am not.
    ... told to kill ourselves or uninstall the game when we make mistakes or don't perform to the standards of professional e-sports players or even the level of average gamers.
    translation: people on regular servers have unreasonable expectations.
    ... with younger family members
    translation: people on regular servers don't know how to behave with young family members.
    ... throw insults because we are emboldened by the shield our computers give us and don't want to be surrounded by those who think the anonymity of the internet makes it ok to be toxic.
    translation: people on regular servers are insecure, and unwilling to take ownership of responsibility.
    Maybe our server will be filled up with 'bads,' 'dirty casuals' and 'Karens,'
    This is playing victim
    at least it will be a server we chose to join
    this is also playing victim - your right to choose being denied.
    the negative toxic gaming culture that seems to be completely standard in this industry.
    This judgement speaks for itself

    And these were your opening statements.
    How do you expect anyone to engage in discussion with you after you start by throwing this in their face?
    The overall message is "I'm not like you, I'm morally superior, respect me."
    Thus everyone else's reponse is "get off your high horse."
    I wish I were deep and tragic
  • edited November 2022
    Not trying to offend you or anything(even tho that might prove to be quite a difficult task)but,
    your passive-aggressive thread makes you look so fragile, so vulnerable and so hurt while playing on a victim mentality with unreasonable expectations of protection on such a hostile enviroment like the internet....

    A dedicated "Family friendly""Safe space" server is not only, not feasible as it is unreachable by a company simple desiring it, a "non-toxic community" can't be artificialy created in effective ways as it can be observed in many online games, a "non-toxic community" can only be created by non-toxic players who group along, segregates and attacks toxic-players through reporting them when they break ToS and wins the "toxicity war", but i have a sad information for you, toxic players usually, in the majority of games, far outclasses the number of non-toxic players.

    In the end, such server would only attract the most vile individuals it is expecting to evade from...
    6wtxguK.jpg
    Aren't we all sinners?
  • Ninja KittyNinja Kitty Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    maouw wrote: »
    Please listen carefully, because this is how everyone on the forums is percieving your post:
    [...]
    Thus everyone else's reponse is "get off your high horse."


    b98uvq68ey48.gif

    You boldly claim to speak for “everyone on the forums.” So let’s roll with it.

    I assume your reply is attempting to respond on behalf of @starpt who accused me of ‘attacking people’ and ‘playing the victim.’

    I’ll address each argument separately as best I can, because your reasoning is illogical and somewhat self-contradictory in the greater context of what ‘everyone’ has been saying to me.

    Argument 1: ‘I attacked people’
    The basis of your argument here seems to be a series of ‘judgements,’ I would consider ‘observations,’ but we can call them ‘judgements.’

    Those judgements are that players in the gaming community engage in sexist, racist and raunchy jokes, and toxic locker room talk. Your translations: that I’m stating other people on regular servers are toxic/racist/sexist/raunchy and I am not/ that I was saying people on regular servers don’t know how to behave with young family members / that people on regular servers are insecure and unwilling to take ownership or responsibility.

    ok, I agree with that part.

    Are you trying to imply that any of these ‘judgements’ are wrong? Because I’m really confused here. Are you trying to imply that there are no people on regular servers who are: toxic/sexist/racist/raunchy/un-family friendly/insecure/unwilling to take ownership of their own actions?

    Because, respectfully, I disagree. I think these people exist. I think many people like this exist. Many Many Many people like this exist.

    Does that constitute and attack on anyone to state or point out that these people exist? Is that what you are trying to say in the first half of your reply? Because that’s totally illogical.

    Your translation for me that I am stating people on regular servers have ‘unreasonable expectations’ is putting words in my mouth.
    I made no comment on their expectations reasonable or not. I have a problem with the toxic expression of their frustrations when I fail to meet whatever expectations they have. Is that supposed to be where I ‘attacked people’? Because I definitely disagree. I don’t think those statements constitute and attack on anyone either.
    And you can’t put words in my post that were not there. That sort of defeats the whole purpose of me requesting to be quoted so that I could explain myself or apologize for my mistakes. I won’t apologize for your mistakes. Only you can do that.

    Ultimately, you never really explicitly stated that you think I ‘attacked people,’ but it seems like you are trying to imply that my ‘judgements’ or your ‘translations’ of my ‘judgements’ are an attack of some sort. Those statements were more for the purpose of background information as part of my reasoning to request a server dedicated to non-toxic gaming.

    Argument 2: ‘I played the victim’
    This one is gunna be good, get off your phone, wait till you can sit down in your comfy gamer chair and read this next bit.

    I’ll address your second ‘playing victim’ argument first, because it’s more easily dismissed. I never said my right to choose was being denied. You said that. I requested a family friendly server. I did not demand one. I requested one.

    I never said I had a ‘right’ to any such server. I just said, that if they made one, and it was filled up with those types of people, at least it would have been their choice to be there. Meaning, no one is forcing anyone to join a safe-space server. It absolutely does not hurt you or hinder your gameplay for this server to exist. It’s just for the people who choose to be there. Your argument that I am complaining about some ‘rights’ being taken away from me is extremely far-fetched and a total exaggeration of the intentions of my post.

    Now, the first example you made about me ‘playing the victim’ was because I postulated that the requested family friendly server might be filled up with ‘bads,’ ‘dirty casuals,’ and ‘Karens.' You said that this constituted me ‘playing the victim.’ I am literally rephrasing exactly what you said. do you agree so far? I am going to assume so, since that’s the way you wrote it.

    Your argument here is based on the premise that this name calling constitutes toxic behavior that makes the recipient a victim. That’s you, that’s all you right there….

    Since you think it’s ‘playing the victim’ to anticipate being name called a ‘bad,’ or ‘Karen,’ I wonder if I should contact the Ashes of Creation Community discord managers to make sure they let go the volunteer moderator who saw nothing wrong with people calling me “Karen,” “snowflake,’ and whatnot?

    I included that part about the server being filled with Karen’s as counterargument anticipation. Because those are some of the counterarguments I got from the discord when I just asked if there was any PG-13 guilds. People told me that I wouldn’t find it, I called them ignorant and unhelpful, then they started calling me Karen. I pinged the mods (excessively, and I deserved my time out); the mod who responded basically said all is well here, nothing wrong with this.

    So, at this point we have two options:
    1. You are wrong. I did not play the victim because being called ‘Karen’ and other names on the internet is not toxic enough for me or anyone else to think I am being ‘victimized.’ Therefore, you cannot argue that I ‘played the victim.’

    2. You are right. I ‘played the victim’ here in the Ashes forum before anyone could even call me hurtful toxic names. Then, you would also have to agree that I would be well within my ‘rights’ to contact the Ashes of Creations discord moderators and demand that the discord moderator who condoned their behavir toward me be let go from his volunteer position for failing to moderate such toxic insults thrown my way. And all the volunteer moderators should be re-trained so an incident like this never happens again. (I would never do this, btw, I’m personally in the #1 option camp because I don’t think I have been ‘victimized’ and I don’t think I have ‘played the victim,’ either by pointing out the common responses I get when asking for safe spaces or pointing out toxic behavior.)

    Your overall interpretation of my post is also wrong.

    So, let’s just strip away the details from my original post please and give me a chance to rephrase:
    My overall message is that I would like to request a server dedicated to non-toxic gaming similar to a server dedicated to role-playing.

    On role-playing servers, rp griefing is reportable where it is not otherwise reportable on regular servers. On the server there would be an additional disclaimer describing the type of prohibited behavior and messages for the server that everyone who joins the server would be required to acknowledge above and beyond the normal TOS regarding acceptable behavior. On the non-toxic server all toxic behavior would be reportable and swiftly and meaningfully handled by discerning human beings, whereas on regular servers almost all reports are handled by an AI that tends to punish people only when a certain threshold of reports have rolled in. This tends to sweep up a lot of innocent people who get brigaded and overlook toxic people who are not toxic 24-7, essentially giving them free passes to be toxic so long as they don’t do it too often.

    A server where the first reported instance of telling someone “kys” would result in a 24 ban from the server (not the whole game, just that server). That could also even be handled by an AI for soft-kicks! Wouldn’t it be glorious if on this server people were instantly kicked out for typing ‘kys’ and forced to re-log in with a warning message? Sure, it could have been a typo, that’s why you wouldn’t get banned unless it was reported. but, the soft-kick would remind you to be more careful or make it clear that this server is not for trolls.

    And I’ll say it LOUDER for the people in the back who are thinking up the next reportable reply with a GoT meme they think is totally going to pwn this Karen:

    My overall message is that I would like to request a server dedicated to non-toxic gaming similar to a server dedicated to role-playing.
    d19tempaw75e.gif

  • The quality of the community is going to come down to how well the Intrepid's TOS is policed and how much toxic-type players are able to get away with. I'd expect the isms to be taken seriously, as well as offensive or sexualised character names and chat/behaviour.

    It's really down to Intrepid to maintain a healthy/happy community. A family-friendly server tag would probably attract trollish behaviour.
    "A single dream is more powerful than a thousand realities." —J.R.R. Tolkien
  • Ninja KittyNinja Kitty Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    well, considering the forum moderators/administrators have squelched this post, I seriously doubt that Ashes will be any different or better at enforcing their TOS. They don't even want to entertain a dialogue about it on the forums. The quality of the Ashes community will most likely be the same as any other MMO, with little to no meaningful repercussions for toxic behavior.
  • My experience from other MMOs has been that the "non-toxic" communities tend to be the most spiteful and manipulative communities, usually filled with drama and repressed feelings. They are often petty and seek vengeance on smallest offence, play the victim for sympathy and mass report anything that might result in a punishment for the person they hate. It is very easy to slip a few nasty words from your mouth when having a bad day, even when you dont really mean anything bad and some people will take it heavier than others. Proving malicious intent or the lack of it would be difficult.

    Moderating communities like that would be very time consuming and expensive. I would rather have that time and money put elsewhere.
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