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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
The Gatherers as Locusts Conundrum
Mattchoo
Member, Alpha Two
I would like to start this discussion by saying I am wildly thrilled with how the gathering system is progressing in AoC so far. My goal, like I believe of most everyone on this forum, is to try to make AoC the best possible game to play.
AoC, as I see it, is a game that revolves around resources. Different resources will be required to build and develop nodes as well as equipment for players. Much of the contention between players will revolve around the control or utilization of resources. Therefore, the resource spawning and gathering system is as important a system (if not the most important) as any other and will require careful consideration and balance.
Gatherers as Locusts: My primary concern after watching the recent video regarding gathering is gatherers being portrayed as locusts marauding across Verra. Looking at the current iteration this may not be without merit. I can only imagine the decimation that 100 gatherers could do in a region running from tree to tree with only 8-10 seconds to fell an entire mature tree and have wooden planks suddenly appear in their inventory. How can this massive resource dump be controlled in the Verran economy?
1. Increase the amount of time for a single gatherer to mine a node or fell a tree. This could be sped up with groups of gatherers working together.
2. Break down the gathering process into steps. Trees will need to be delimbed and cut into lengths and then cut into usable boards. Mining nodes will need to be broken open and then have those pieces be crushed to extract usable ore.
3. For the love of the Seven, please implement some kind of weight/encumbrance system. Running around carrying dozens of planks, sacks of ore, animal hides, meat, and plants is just immersion breaking for me. So many games screw this up, but that is for a different rant.
4. Individual trees/mineral deposits could produce different quality level or amount of resources. This could make the surveying mechanic more viable by increasing the importance of tree/deposit selection in the gathering process.
What are your thoughts and ideas?
AoC, as I see it, is a game that revolves around resources. Different resources will be required to build and develop nodes as well as equipment for players. Much of the contention between players will revolve around the control or utilization of resources. Therefore, the resource spawning and gathering system is as important a system (if not the most important) as any other and will require careful consideration and balance.
Gatherers as Locusts: My primary concern after watching the recent video regarding gathering is gatherers being portrayed as locusts marauding across Verra. Looking at the current iteration this may not be without merit. I can only imagine the decimation that 100 gatherers could do in a region running from tree to tree with only 8-10 seconds to fell an entire mature tree and have wooden planks suddenly appear in their inventory. How can this massive resource dump be controlled in the Verran economy?
1. Increase the amount of time for a single gatherer to mine a node or fell a tree. This could be sped up with groups of gatherers working together.
2. Break down the gathering process into steps. Trees will need to be delimbed and cut into lengths and then cut into usable boards. Mining nodes will need to be broken open and then have those pieces be crushed to extract usable ore.
3. For the love of the Seven, please implement some kind of weight/encumbrance system. Running around carrying dozens of planks, sacks of ore, animal hides, meat, and plants is just immersion breaking for me. So many games screw this up, but that is for a different rant.
4. Individual trees/mineral deposits could produce different quality level or amount of resources. This could make the surveying mechanic more viable by increasing the importance of tree/deposit selection in the gathering process.
What are your thoughts and ideas?
2
Comments
All we know is that the near instant respawning we saw in the livestream was speedier than what it will be upon release. Until we know the respawn speed, all we are doing is speculating without factual foundation.
Point 2...I think you may be forgetting about the processing. When you chop a tree, you get wood...not planks/boards/whatever. You get a resource that can't be used to craft until it is processed. Same with mining. You get the raw resource, but it's not a craftable item until processed. Processing is a separate profession that gathering.
You're on point with the encumbrance comment!
On the last point, I think the idea is to have just that: amount is not fixed, quality is based on skill/tool level.
I don't expect gatherers are gonna be able to carry a lot and it's gonna be a lot of running back and forth.
I am more curious about mounts being used as mules to carry additional inventory.
I hope an individual + mount = 10% of what a caravan capacity is, or less.
10% seems a little low. I mean realistically, what volume percentage does a mule cart contain vs that of a caravan? I'd say 20-25%, at least, depending on how big the caravan actually is, which there may be multiple options for.
Generally though, between all of these different facets (carrying capacity, gathering time, respawn time, speed of animal-drawn carts) we should hopefully be able to mitigate huge swarms of players wiping out the local flora, fauna, and minerals. If we have a realistic abundance of resources to gather, then there should be realistic limitations on the speed at which we can gather and utilize those resources.
To emphasize and incentivize caravans - an individual + mount should be 10 ---15% MAX imho
thus the meta encourages group activites aka caravan.
A: Hmm... who knows, could be, in the alpha some stuff were accelerated for the sake of the video
2. Break down the gathering process into steps. Trees will need to be delimbed and cut into lengths and then cut into usable boards. Mining nodes will need to be broken open and then have those pieces be crushed to extract usable ore.
A: There's refining in the cities and freeholds for that
3. For the love of the Seven, please implement some kind of weight/encumbrance system. Running around carrying dozens of planks, sacks of ore, animal hides, meat, and plants is just immersion breaking for me. So many games screw this up, but that is for a different rant.
A: There's weight management in the wiki
4. Individual trees/mineral deposits could produce different quality level or amount of resources. This could make the surveying mechanic more viable by increasing the importance of tree/deposit selection in the gathering process.
A: It's extremely random, the deposit could have anything, we don't know in details yet
This will be an interesting PvP tactic. This would certainly deprive a node of its' resources. Much of its' success will depend on the despawn timers for things dropped on the ground. Also, won't the act of harvesting send experience to the node helping it level?
The announced amount for a player (being on a mount does not matter) is 1% of a caravan. A mule carries 10% of a caravan.
"Mules can carry roughly 10 times more than backpacks. Caravans can carry roughly 10 times more than mules."
Of course, we don't know exactly how much can be carried since we don't know what a backpack carries; and, everything is subject to change and we will obviously be testing during Alpha 2.
But when an emphasis is placed on wanting dedicated crafters etc. And wanting players to work together, it's only seen in the production chain. The three step one.
To me, true cooperation for these types of things would be to have the logs/ores be physical and large quantities need to be transported via an actual cart which players can interact with (hostile and non-hostile)
All the ore and logs disappearing in your pocket is just one of the many choices being made that make it look like just another MMO. I personally find this very disheartening.
It will but the chaos that follows will be fun to watch.
Mules can carry roughly 10 times more than backpacks. Caravans can carry roughly 10 times more than mules.[33]
About XP, yes it will level the master node, but the vassal node is level capped so it won't level anyway, if you harvest in a vassal node then 1% of the xp will be sent to the master node
In the long run maybe it's worth doing this, because it will degrade the land