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Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Is there a perfect MMO to shape modern era in a wise way?
VekoKrava
Member
Is there such MMO design to teach modern men and women about values and virtues? I feel that every big company is responsible to create and shape new era in the best possible way for one's growth. Because our era is currently in danger (I hope I am not right)
To start with modern era game design as far as I can see, it became such a business that people create things that force people to play to earn dopamine rush and not play for fun like I used to play in my youth. When you compare old design of MOBAs like dota vs LoL, you can see that LoL teaches players to work for reward and hit dopamine rush with each new hero that he buys and each rune that you buy from in game currency.
FPS games changed too, you have to work for next upgrade in many games, you have to earn and progress in game though playing or buying stuff.
MMOs are sketchy though, because the whole ideology of MMOs is to have progress throughout time and effort.
That's why I am asking myself as I want to ask you, can MMOs change to have tradition as well as to have impact on how players play your game.
If designers designed their game for small dopamine rush then I think they failed because they did not focus on making each player ''wise'' and to build virtues instead they focused on making players want end results and not focus on road to reward instead. Why am I saying this you might ask yourself? Well wise people of the past were teaching us about working on ourselves through religion and faith to our mighty ''grace'', but today we see wise people spreading word in a different way through podcasts or audiobooks. In era around 1800s (I think) people were speaking though philosophy to educate us. I am saying this because I see many impatient people that want to rush to end results instead of enjoying game in peace. That means many of us were or still are under a spell of a product that designers created. One that is impatient is surely not in peace we can all agree to that... And one of the biggest wisdoms is patience as well as compassion, and you cannot build compassion if you are competitive, but that's another reason which I will go through next paragraph.
If game is overly designed for competitive gameplay, players will play like that and in some way that is fine because that's what gaming is for, but some people cross that line and compete with others in raid over who has bigger DMG and they start building their sense of life around competition. They want more progress IRL, more money etc... And believe it or not, they compare themselves with others if not on purpose, some thought get away in form of jealously or any other emotion.
To finish my post all I want to say that I think there is a way of creating MMO in a way that serves both for ones spiritual progress and keeping tradition of progress and that's why I think AoC will be one of the biggest hit on point MMOs because how sandbox it feels yet it has that unique vibe to new engine, graphics and systems. Therefore MMO that is sandbox and not theme park serves both to keep tradition and work on virtues of player through well designed systems that don't form comfort, theme-park progress (which is whole another topic and I am not sure if I can explain it well with my level of english), overly competitive design without systems such as ship wars, caravans etc... (where you can lose progress)
I always liked arenas in WoW, but do they really create what's good for player's well being? One can argue it does not have an impact on him, well I agree, some players are not touched by game design just because how well they are on their spiritual level, you have to understand not everyone is same and there are many more players that got under that impact of competition then ones that stayed wise and normal. -There are no 2 truths, there is only 1 truth and that is if you are impatient you are not considered as normal to many patient people.
To start with modern era game design as far as I can see, it became such a business that people create things that force people to play to earn dopamine rush and not play for fun like I used to play in my youth. When you compare old design of MOBAs like dota vs LoL, you can see that LoL teaches players to work for reward and hit dopamine rush with each new hero that he buys and each rune that you buy from in game currency.
FPS games changed too, you have to work for next upgrade in many games, you have to earn and progress in game though playing or buying stuff.
MMOs are sketchy though, because the whole ideology of MMOs is to have progress throughout time and effort.
That's why I am asking myself as I want to ask you, can MMOs change to have tradition as well as to have impact on how players play your game.
If designers designed their game for small dopamine rush then I think they failed because they did not focus on making each player ''wise'' and to build virtues instead they focused on making players want end results and not focus on road to reward instead. Why am I saying this you might ask yourself? Well wise people of the past were teaching us about working on ourselves through religion and faith to our mighty ''grace'', but today we see wise people spreading word in a different way through podcasts or audiobooks. In era around 1800s (I think) people were speaking though philosophy to educate us. I am saying this because I see many impatient people that want to rush to end results instead of enjoying game in peace. That means many of us were or still are under a spell of a product that designers created. One that is impatient is surely not in peace we can all agree to that... And one of the biggest wisdoms is patience as well as compassion, and you cannot build compassion if you are competitive, but that's another reason which I will go through next paragraph.
If game is overly designed for competitive gameplay, players will play like that and in some way that is fine because that's what gaming is for, but some people cross that line and compete with others in raid over who has bigger DMG and they start building their sense of life around competition. They want more progress IRL, more money etc... And believe it or not, they compare themselves with others if not on purpose, some thought get away in form of jealously or any other emotion.
To finish my post all I want to say that I think there is a way of creating MMO in a way that serves both for ones spiritual progress and keeping tradition of progress and that's why I think AoC will be one of the biggest hit on point MMOs because how sandbox it feels yet it has that unique vibe to new engine, graphics and systems. Therefore MMO that is sandbox and not theme park serves both to keep tradition and work on virtues of player through well designed systems that don't form comfort, theme-park progress (which is whole another topic and I am not sure if I can explain it well with my level of english), overly competitive design without systems such as ship wars, caravans etc... (where you can lose progress)
I always liked arenas in WoW, but do they really create what's good for player's well being? One can argue it does not have an impact on him, well I agree, some players are not touched by game design just because how well they are on their spiritual level, you have to understand not everyone is same and there are many more players that got under that impact of competition then ones that stayed wise and normal. -There are no 2 truths, there is only 1 truth and that is if you are impatient you are not considered as normal to many patient people.
2
Comments
What are you talking about? Why are you confusing people? Spiritual growth is a serious issue that starts at home, not online.
You think that there are lessens to be learned by playing mobas or mmos (sandboxes or themearks)? Really?
I guess then that society has been driven to the point of being completely tricked by those that pretend to want to heal, protect and empower us.
Imagine... the task of teaching life lessons now falls with the entertainment industry and all their not-so-subtle brainwashing.
What ever happened to parents and teachers? Why isn't there funding for home owning, so that a lot of misery and troubles can be prevented, allowing for a caring environment to exist, a loving environment? What ever happened funding to teachers with passion to work with children and impart knowledge?
These are the foundations for a wise society, one of kindness, compassion and strength of character, knowledge and wisdom.
Without those you are left with false and empty messages of progression, which intent to divide, cause anger and more hate. Without parents and teachers (which can't exist in a world of misery and troubles [one might say this was organized...]), you are left with false knowledge, aimed at conditioning you to perform a simple task of consumption; no power to own anything or create anything to sustain you and better you, much less for you to be able to provide a good environment for those to follow in your steps.
We are faced with high interest rates which means that borrowing power is gone, just like the chance to claim a home, while at the same time home values go down, still out of reach of the everyday family (hint hint misery on the way), but within the reach of those that have much. Lower prices for them, more profit for them. We have so many wars going on on so many different levels, power costs up, fuel costs up, food costs up, house costs up and you talk about lessons of co-opperation in an mmo, or competitive spirit in mobas?
You ain't getting none of these is you still trying to find values in life, while at the same time sit, playing games.
Just do a 180 on the whole thread friend. My advice, at my risk of being banned for touching upon sensitive topics.
Because this is an impossible thing to discuss in an Ashes forum, I will pose only a few questions and no real answers.
Do game companies need to be socially responsible? (I think to a degree, yes). But socially responsible in what way? To what extent? What values and virtues should they teach? How should they teach them?
What are the impacts of games on people? We need to bring in all the studies! And psychologists and sociologists, as well as philosophers, to really cover all aspects of this.
What is truth? Is that 1 truth you proclaim really a truth? Why is it so relevant you think?
1. It is impossible to discuss this in AoC forum, but if companies like Microsoft ask these questions it might have an impact on how people design games in future.
2. There are two things that can have an impact on one's behavior. 1st - Competition leads to toxicity and 2nd - theme park rewards leads to impatience. This is only true to some people that don't have strong persona to oppose those two things, if player is not humble nor competitive it might have an impact on him to become competitive if he plays a lot of competitive games thus it can lead to toxicity if community is like that (which it is) - It won't be same for everyone it depends on many things, is that person arrogant to some degree and not disciplined by his parents etc... Many things can have an impact if player becomes toxic or not. Maybe player just wants to fit in as we can see in LoL with player's poking to have little bit of laugh, even with humor he ''attacks'' other person just to provoke him little bit, happened to many of my friends and many of other players. To be truthful I once was like that when I was young, but I grew up, maybe that's only for teenagers, but that's why I think we need to study that properly.
3. I put answer for 2nd and 3rd comment on my second answer (did not notice that). Sorry, don't want to mess with more thoughts just to clear it up...