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Middle ground for PvP and PvE players regarding the flagging system

I would very much like to see open world PvP thrive in AoC, instead of just having most of it be about battles or skirmishes taking place in certain places at set times.
The caravan system does seem pretty interesting, but still I would like to see more of what makes open world PvP interesting: The excitement of always having to be a bit careful not to get ambushed or run into a big group of enemies, the feeling that the world is actually a big and dangerous place. These of course would be countered by being careful yourself, being sneaky, or just bringing friends along for protection.
It feels to me that the flagging system would discourage open world PvP way too much to the extent it wouldn't really happen anymore. Fighting in some arena isn't just the same. Though I understand people don't want what was the case in WoW, which was you running around as a low level and getting one-shot by someone of a bigger level. In retail WoW you couldn't really do anything to a player only a few levels above you, or god forbid, have no "heirloom" gear that made you ten times more powerful than a normal character of your level at lower levels.

So some PvP players want everyone to be flagged at all times. PvE players don't want to be forced to PvP, from what I've heard and gathered mostly because there is this fear that it will just end up a massive grief-fest.

So I propose a solution in the form of a middle ground: Everyone is flagged, which keeps world PvP alive. BUT you gain corruption only if you harm/kill a player of a much lower level (for example 5 or 10 levels lower, depending how much stronger a character gets in X levels).
This would have the intended effect of reducing griefing/camping/whatever when there is no fighting chance, but instead ensure that most PvP encounters would be somewhat balanced. PvP players get people to fight and the excitement of this scary, big world full of danger, and PvE players wouldn't have to worry that much about some PvP-god slaughtering them in an unfair fight.
A possible addition to this would be for stats and gear to scale in PvP. New World did this and so I think did ESO also.

TL;DR: Forced PvP flagging and you get corruption (though to a much higher degree than seems will be the intended case now) only from killing much lower level players. Additionally: PvP scaling.
Hard carry for both teams

Comments

  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited November 2022
    Who asked you for a middle ground? Get on with the program.
    I liked nothing from what you said. These are different games.
  • Who asked you for a middle ground? Get on with the program.
    I liked nothing from what you said. These are different games.

    Oh I'm sorry, I probably missed the meeting where this collective appointed you to be the judge of what is a valid opinion.
    I'm sure the devs would be the most happy in making a game that appeals to a crowd as large as it possibly can, without compromising the spirit or integrity of the game and that usually means compromises. Btw from what I've seen, it really seems the devs built this game with PvP at it's core even though it's a "PvX" game.
    Hard carry for both teams
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited November 2022
    You compromised its spirit with your suggestions. They dont try to appeal to everybody.
    PvX means open, not-instanced/fragmented mmo. It has nothing to do with your understanding of PvP. It means all aspects of the game are linked, not 50-50 PvE-PvP gameplay.

    It's core is open world, no p2w, risk v reward (in other words, not everybody will be a winner) and meaningful challenging gameplay, as opposed to "race to endgame, collect ez achievements".
    Talk all you want about "pvp not pvX". Show your lack of understanding.

    Since you missed the meeting, go and watch some old vids.
  • Wanting to change the game long long time before its release...
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited November 2022
    PvX means open, not-instanced/fragmented mmo.
    I mean, it doesn't.

    These are two different design paradigms that Ashes just happens to both have.

    You can absolutely have an instance based PvX game. You can also absolutely have an open world game that isn't PvX.

    I mean, you are right in that Ashes has already made these design choices and so suggestions that go too far against them are moot - but you are straight up incorrect with the above quote.
  • The discussion is pointless, the devs already anounced they are not changing the core design elements such as the corruption system.

    There is absolutely no evidence that the corruption system will fail to prevent griefing geting out of hand and ever becoming more than a meme.

    So the game will not end as a massive grief fest.

    The people holding this fear generally have no real understanding or no understanding at all of how the proposed corruption system works.
    CaNp0G wrote: »
    A possible addition to this would be for stats and gear to scale in PvP. New World did this and so I think did ESO also.

    Absolutely not.

    You would be ruining the value of the gear, the immense joy of earning and having good gear.

    And you would make the game feel... deceiving. Unnatural.

    Just no.

    Have world-pvp anxiety? Get some friends to watch eachother's back while questing and traveling (truth is, you should do that simply because it makes the game more fun to play),

    Still not feeling good? Too bad, go try a different mmo.

  • Arya_YesheArya_Yeshe Member
    edited November 2022
    Being one shotted many times is fine

    Point one single case of a player who never could not progress in a game because of this
    The guy being on shotted was level 1 and a couple hours later he was level 10 while being shotted

    Also the people killing others they do it for some minutes and then they die, guess what, someone always pass by and kill and guy

    Always someone shows up and kill the guy

    Being ganked a few times never stopped anyone to progress in any game ever, people didn't even lose loot in WoW and will barely lose anything in AoC

    If people can gang up on the guy and kill him it's good enough, on top of that the Corruption is overpowered and punishes people excessively
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • CaNp0G wrote: »
    I'm sure the devs would be the most happy in making a game that appeals to a crowd as large as it possibly can
    You do realize that always-on pvp with 0 penalties to the killer is directly against what the "crowd as large as possible" wants, right?

    People were surprised by the open seas changing to an always-on pvp zone and here you are suggesting to make the whole damn game like that. Most pvers won't even touch the game if that's the case.
  • CaNp0G wrote: »
    I would very much like to see open world PvP thrive in AoC, instead of just having most of it be about battles or skirmishes taking place in certain places at set times.
    The caravan system does seem pretty interesting, but still I would like to see more of what makes open world PvP interesting: The excitement of always having to be a bit careful not to get ambushed or run into a big group of enemies, the feeling that the world is actually a big and dangerous place. These of course would be countered by being careful yourself, being sneaky, or just bringing friends along for protection.
    It feels to me that the flagging system would discourage open world PvP way too much to the extent it wouldn't really happen anymore. Fighting in some arena isn't just the same. Though I understand people don't want what was the case in WoW, which was you running around as a low level and getting one-shot by someone of a bigger level. In retail WoW you couldn't really do anything to a player only a few levels above you, or god forbid, have no "heirloom" gear that made you ten times more powerful than a normal character of your level at lower levels.

    So some PvP players want everyone to be flagged at all times. PvE players don't want to be forced to PvP, from what I've heard and gathered mostly because there is this fear that it will just end up a massive grief-fest.

    So I propose a solution in the form of a middle ground: Everyone is flagged, which keeps world PvP alive. BUT you gain corruption only if you harm/kill a player of a much lower level (for example 5 or 10 levels lower, depending how much stronger a character gets in X levels).
    This would have the intended effect of reducing griefing/camping/whatever when there is no fighting chance, but instead ensure that most PvP encounters would be somewhat balanced. PvP players get people to fight and the excitement of this scary, big world full of danger, and PvE players wouldn't have to worry that much about some PvP-god slaughtering them in an unfair fight.
    A possible addition to this would be for stats and gear to scale in PvP. New World did this and so I think did ESO also.

    TL;DR: Forced PvP flagging and you get corruption (though to a much higher degree than seems will be the intended case now) only from killing much lower level players. Additionally: PvP scaling.

    Why exactly do you think there will be very little OWpvp
  • CaNp0G wrote: »
    Everyone is flagged, which keeps world PvP alive. BUT you gain corruption only if you harm/kill a player of a much lower level (for example 5 or 10 levels lower, depending how much stronger a character gets in X levels).

    Don't forget that this game will have a level cap, which is where the entirety of this falls apart. If you let too many 'PvE only' players into a game that isn't built around that method of thinking they will hit this level cap and all of a sudden what was supposedly keeping them safe is now gone and they get angry and quit, or at least just make the game more toxic for everyone else.

    It's best if we keep things as they are and make it clear that this game is going to get your character killed a lot, whether you like it or not. That way players who are going to enjoy what they game is intended to be will be the ones who play it.

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