Strevi wrote: » Azherae wrote: » What percentage of gatherable nodes would you consider acceptable to be placed such that it is a group activity due to threat level around them? 33% - from the perspective of a max level player where the gear could gradually reduce it to 20% But I am not sure what this exactly means. The way I would like to answer is that a max level player should not be able to obtain epic tier gear by gathering the resources solo. Azherae wrote: » I would assume some subset of those players would 'look around, notice that they are trying to outgather someone else, and just consider grouping up with that person to go gather someplace more dangerous'. Are you in that subset? Yes. Grouping spontaneously can be fun. You never know what can happen. Maybe you group with a thief But in AoC I would rather form the group in a tavern with players I know and discuss the loot rules before we start. I don't like the "Lootmaster" option but is useful in some cases.https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Group_dynamics#Loot_rules
Azherae wrote: » What percentage of gatherable nodes would you consider acceptable to be placed such that it is a group activity due to threat level around them?
Azherae wrote: » I would assume some subset of those players would 'look around, notice that they are trying to outgather someone else, and just consider grouping up with that person to go gather someplace more dangerous'. Are you in that subset?
Depraved wrote: » @Azherae are you going to play or not?
Dygz wrote: » I guess we'll have to test what this is like in Alpha 2. In Landmark and other games I've played with group gathering, solo gatherable is not a thing. It's just gatherables. I guess if it's like looting a mob, there will be conflict over other players trying to tap the gatherable someone is trying to solo?
Azherae wrote: » This form of it stays the same with or without lowbies, with or without roulette gathering, with or without specialized gear. It doesn't even require that you separate out all these items from each other. If C chops down a mature tree and then ALSO has a separate, 'time consuming' option to get something from the 'stump of the tree', the important thing is that the TIME is the same, but the amounts don't have to funnel.
Azherae wrote: » I'd expect Player C to use their higher level to get a tool for cutting down trees that Player A can't even cut. Possibly not even in the same geographical area. But I would NOT expect there to be anywhere in the game where those trees are just automatically worth more than player A's trees.
NiKr wrote: » Azherae wrote: » I'd expect Player C to use their higher level to get a tool for cutting down trees that Player A can't even cut. Possibly not even in the same geographical area. But I would NOT expect there to be anywhere in the game where those trees are just automatically worth more than player A's trees. Would those "C" trees be rarer then? Because just by the logic of the time required to level up your profession, there'll be waaaay more As and Bs than Cs, so those two would need more resources to allow for the day-to-day casual gameplay. And if those C trees are indeed rarer, this would increase their prices (especially with friction factored in) and it would also be a funnel of players, because while leveling up your artisanry you'd go from "I can gather pretty much anywhere I want" to "if I want to gather this particular thing, I can only go to these particular places on the map". And these are the kinds of funnels I was talking about in my original comment in this thread. Just the super obvious ones of "there's probably less high lvl stuff than low lvl stuff, so all the high lvl players will have to meet each other around that limited high lvl stuff". It will already apply to the mob locations and I would personally prefer if it applied to gatherables as well.
Rare Crafts
Bulk Consumable Crafts (looking at cooking/herbology/alchemy)
maouw wrote: » > brain dies. idk, the only way I can see this working is if consumables/dishes are stackable - but only the strongest effects to each stat overwrites the effects of other dishes in that stat. I imagine this means everyone eats full course meals made of multiple dishes so we get a high consumption ratio of a variety of foods. Otherwise it'll be: everyone drinks Sorcerer's Elixir of Horizons and all other elixirs are ignored.
Arya_Yeshe wrote: » I got an idea that maybe could be much simpler. What if there are events in which there are herds of animals travelling by? The herd will pass by and you gotta have a a group of people to CC and kill. Could be packs of wolves, big mammals, etc, anything
Azherae wrote: » Arya_Yeshe wrote: » I got an idea that maybe could be much simpler. What if there are events in which there are herds of animals travelling by? The herd will pass by and you gotta have a a group of people to CC and kill. Could be packs of wolves, big mammals, etc, anything That is indeed a much simpler idea. Glad someone thought of it. Moving resources is a great idea and the sort of groundbreaking concepts this game needs and will thrive on.
Azherae wrote: » Just apply all the effects you are used to from "PvP for leveling spots", but take away the whole 'you can't get items/exp from low level mobs'. What happens? Maybe this is what you want, but now you're 'one and a half steps' from BDO depending on what you believe will happen here. So, what's your call?
NiKr wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Just apply all the effects you are used to from "PvP for leveling spots", but take away the whole 'you can't get items/exp from low level mobs'. What happens? Maybe this is what you want, but now you're 'one and a half steps' from BDO depending on what you believe will happen here. So, what's your call? Nah, to me that's shitty design and why I was one of the only few who protested the fucking "chop every tree you see" change, back when Intrepid asked for feedback on it. My preference for funneling is based on that. I want high lvl player to only fight other high lvl players for resources, mainly because they physically can't gather the same shit the low lvl players can. And this is why I was trying to see if there's a way to keep that mechanic after the gathering change. And I do think that the additional gatherables thing could potentially work towards some sort of separation between low and high lvls, even if it doesn't physically separate them in the world. And as for the pvp part, to me that's just the nature of an owpvp game. I just want to push that nature onto more experienced players, who have had time to make connections and have a much higher chance to get some support when they go out to gather high lvl mats. Which would bring us directly back to the question of this thread. I would personally prefer to push people together, if they want to gather in highly hazardous locations. And, as I see it, most high lvl mats should be located in those hazardous locations. And as much as this is a meme at this point, if a high lvl gatherer (someone who put potentially hundreds of hours into the game) is against partying up to gather high value stuff - the game might not be for them. They're always free to go gather the basic stuff if they just want to hit rocks or trees, and the game should, in theory, support all 10k people doing that to the basic gatherables (as long as the players are spread out far enough).
Arya_Yeshe wrote: » In many games it's quite crazy how big people's stockpiles are Even I had huge stockpiles, what the companies did was simply forcing people into reprocessing the materials in attempt of making people burn their entire stockpiles. Then later on you can skill up your crafting skills.... then sell everything. What happens then? It happens that the items have nearly no value, since there's barely any loot drops from PvP or no loot drops at all, no item destruction Hopefully AoC will get the destruction part covered with wars and sea pvp that will destroy ships. We need good material sinks, destruction is great for that. Consumables are also fantastic as sinks, could be specialized ammo, siege weapons, spells, rituals, healing kits, food that offer boosts Having pets and mounts which consume food and items for upgrading them is also amazing, in the game Dungeon Siege 2 you could have pets who could eat even swords and armors, that would upgrade the pet in a way or other Having NPC vendors, guards, serfs who actually consume food, materials or gold is also great If the materials are flowing, being consumed and destroyed then the game is fine The problems start when stockpiles start growing too fast and too much
Azherae wrote: » I THINK we have reached a sorta-agreement on one point, and a clarity on difference in perspective in the other related point, so you can verify for me. "We agree that with the current implied 'gather everything' system, it would be poor design to create conflict between high and low level gatherers and we MUST encourage the high level gatherers to move somewhere else by SOME means." "We currently disagree on what is required to make that happen, in terms of actual resource availability and demand, partially because of perspective (you being PvP-primary and me being Econ-primary)." Hopefully Ashes will pick the one they want and not make the other 'by mistake' somehow. I don't mind which it is, I have new TL data (very minor but confidence boosting).
Azherae wrote: » So IF we continue and the above is right we can focus on one thing, and that is 'the line that leads BDO to where it is'. People gather for no reason. Just because 'it's in the game to do it'. This leads to massive resource glut AND ridiculous situations where the game explicitly sets the gathering to be less worth your time than anything else, and then flips the whole thing. Remember that thing Mag said awhile back about how lifeskilling in BDO is a terrible way to make money?
Azherae wrote: » Therefore fiddling with the supply limit should be done entirely arbitrarily relative to THAT, and should be based on what you want the game/crafting loop to feel like. Especially since the tree placement by nature will only reach a certain density. 2 Logs per Tree vs 20 logs per tree... doesn't matter at all.
