Will players ever be able to build their own dungeons/buildings?

Arya_Yeshe

I wonder if we could build our own dungeon, just like Dungeon Keeper, dungeons that could actually kill people and protect your treasures as a second layer after losing a Node or Freehold.

Let's say there's a trapdoor at your freehold, then there it brings you to an instance of your dungeon, where you have a free creative mode if you have the materials.

Maybe build an entire world there, like Ultima Underworld.

Did Steven ever say anything about building your own realm, dungeon or buildings?

Dygz

Other than progressing Nodes and constructing Freeholds - no.
Players building dungeons is disastruous.

Arya_Yeshe

Dygz wrote: »

Players building dungeons is disastruous.

Excuse me, Dygz?


There's plenty of games where players build awesome dungeons or trap bases, there's many examples of it.















etc

Dygz

You don't build dungeons in Valheim. You can make a server in Valheim.
Valheim is not an MMORPG.
Dungeon Keeper is not an MMORPG.
Dwarf Fortress is not an MMORPG.
Rust is an MMO Survival Game - it is not an MMORPG.
7 Days to Die is not an MMORPG.
Orcs Must De is not an MMORPG.
Rimworld is not an MMORPG.

Nova_terra

Dygz wrote: »

You don't build dungeons in Valheim. You can make a server in Valheim.
Valehem is not an MMORPG.
Dungeon Keeper is not an MMORPG.
Dwarf Fortress is not an MMORPG.
Rust is an MMO Survival Game - it is not an MMORPG.
7 Days to Die is not an MMORPG.
Orcs Must De is not an MMORPG.
Rimworld is not an MMORPG.

This 100%, player made dungeons would be a no go for an MMO. These are also not dungeons, these are explorer/farming/simulators.

Taleof2Cities

As Dygz said, those games aren’t MMOs, @Arya_Yeshe.

Arya_Yeshe

He specifically stated "players building dungeons is disastrous"
So he is wrong in that, because players do make great dungeons and in multiplayers they do make great trap bases

Btw, I was just asking if Steven said anything about player built stuff, a simple "no" would suffice

Conan Exiles has fanastic base building and it's a MMORPG

No MMO has dungeon and trap bases building just because devs aren't great in overall

In a MMO if you had your own mage tower you should have a mirror which you can walk into it and end up in an instanced player dungeon full of deadly traps and puzzles so the mage can store his treasures there

I am sorry other people aren't in my level of reality

Tyranthraxus

For anyone wanting, you can use a free-version of Unreal Engine 5; You only have to pay them if you're going commercial.

There's "build-your-own stuff" for templates you can download, wherein you can be poking around the environment - they just won't be the exact world-assets AoC will feature.

It's neat for a minute - but lacking intelligent design, it's just another type of a world builder. Sometimes it's fun for people to BOTH make/engineer a world AND play in it - but thus far the most-fun I've had is with other peoples' creations.

Arya_Yeshe

@Tyranthraxus I wonder if someone made a dungeon editor for AoC, if Steven would buy it and add to the game

I think it would be quite neat being able to install a trapdoor at your Freehold inside your house, so only if your house is under attack people could storm in the dungeon

Or if you place the trapdoor outside then visitors could check it out your private dungeon and venture themselves inside

Maybe the owner could collect a fee and whoever clears the dungeon will collect the pot

This is 100% a community thing and we know the community can come up with amazing things

unknownsystemerror

No
And there is an example of an mmo doing this that was disastrous. Neverwinter Online did it years back. They allowed player created dungeons that anyone could join into. People immediately created exp/loot farm dungeons with high level mobs, put in terrain pathing so the players could not be hit while attacking those mobs, and they became rinse/repeat content to cheese the levelling, loot, and fucked the economy. They were removed shortly after. While you may have the best of intentions in your "level of reality" there are always others who will game a player created content system for advantage.

Then you get to the legal questions of player created content and the steps companies have taken in recent years to deal with problems and lawsuits of claims of ownership. The DOTA fiasco cost those involved several hundreds of millions of dollars.

Conan Exiles has a cap of 70 players on a server. While I guess you can claim it as a mmorpg, it depends on your definition of massive. Atlas and Ark allow people to build "bases" and structures free form. They also run into server load issues when they reach their cap on objects rendered. I played Atlas and decided for shits and giggles to pave over an entire island base with stone foundations to keep others from building on it. Spent a couple weeks and dropped 10s of thousands of stone foundations and created a "parking lot". People trying to log in on or approach the island were hit with massive lag spike and others in our company that were playing on Xbox immediately crashed on trying to load in or approach the island.

So..... no.

Arya_Yeshe

unknownsystemerror wrote: »

No
And there is an example of an mmo doing this that was disastrous. Neverwinter Online did it years back. They allowed player created dungeons that anyone could join into. People immediately created exp/loot farm dungeons with high level mobs, put in terrain pathing so the players could not be hit while attacking those mobs, and they became rinse/repeat content to cheese the levelling, loot, and fucked the economy. They were removed shortly after. While you may have the best of intentions in your "level of reality" there are always others who will game a player created content system for advantage.

Then you get to the legal questions of player created content and the steps companies have taken in recent years to deal with problems and lawsuits of claims of ownership. The DOTA fiasco cost those involved several hundreds of millions of dollars.

Conan Exiles has a cap of 70 players on a server. While I guess you can claim it as a mmorpg, it depends on your definition of massive. Atlas and Ark allow people to build "bases" and structures free form. They also run into server load issues when they reach their cap on objects rendered. I played Atlas and decided for shits and giggles to pave over an entire island base with stone foundations to keep others from building on it. Spent a couple weeks and dropped 10s of thousands of stone foundations and created a "parking lot". People trying to log in on or approach the island were hit with massive lag spike and others in our company that were playing on Xbox immediately crashed on trying to load in or approach the island.

So..... no.

That's what happens when the devs give the players a faucet that can run unsupervised, what did they think would happen?
No one should give an infinite faucet in the hands of players

I was thinking of creating a resource and gold sink, even if people added monsters in it those monsters would generate zero loot and zero xp, the dungeon would be a glorified treasure chest.

Nodes could have that and could be the final line of defense in a war and in the dungeon could have a slice of the node's loot or gold.

If the attackers succeed then they would get instant reward, if the defenders could defend it, then those riches would go back to their owners somehow.

This could be the last stand after the defenders lose the throne room, this is the kind of stuff I was thinking about.

Ace1234

Sounds fun- Ive liked most your ideas so far. Sure there could be "issues", as with anything, but there are ways to mitigate them, and if the idea is fun enough then it can be well worth the downsides.

The reasoning people use in response to an idea sometimes is concerning to me.
You don't automatically scrap an idea any time you notice a flaw- making adjustments and tuning exists. Thats like saying that Steven should have scrapped combat altogether because it "didn't work well" in the alpha. As the devs say all the time, things are iterative and improvement can be made over time. Just because something doesn't immediately sound flawless at a surface level, doesn't mean it can't eventually work very well. If everyone used that reasoning then there wouldn't even be any systems in the game at all, since everything would be stripped at any sign of complaints.

Arya_Yeshe

Ace1234 wrote: »

Sounds fun- Ive liked most your ideas so far. Sure there could be "issues", as with anything, but there are ways to mitigate them, and if the idea is fun enough then it can be well worth the downsides.

The reasoning people use in response to an idea sometimes is concerning to me.
You don't automatically scrap an idea any time you notice a flaw- making adjustments and tuning exists.

Thats like saying that Steven should have scrapped combat altogether because it "didn't work well" in the alpha. As the devs say all the time, things are iterative and improvement can be made over time. Just because something doesn't immediately sound flawless at a surface level, doesn't mean it can't eventually work very well. If everyone used that reasoning then there wouldn't even be any systems in the game at all, since everything would be stripped at any sign of complaints.

Yeap!

I wonder how it would be if Steven makes a secret account in the forum and starts throwing ideas and people just go "full nope" without proper discussion

I mean, people saying "I don't like such things" is a valid argument, but there's so many cases people just start skimming and throw some "no" for poor reasons I must say

Legit, I think in the future when things settle down, Steven will come up with something really juicy in the housing department.... worst case scenario he will bring buildings that allow people to customize it's defenses... if he posts the idea with a secret account the no sayers will say no, if he posts with his official account then the same people will applaud the idea

WHIT3ROS3

I don't think having a dungeon editor is the way to go, although I do hope that the furnishing and customization options for player-owned housing are fairly extensive. We have already seen some furniture and I think it would be really cool to explore the differences between races through the use of Interior design.

Just thinking about apartments (there are 3 different sizes) It would be cool to have Arabian Nights style boudoir as a Vaelune character or a stone and wood lodge with a roaring fire as a Dunir.

The sky is the limit when talking about the many different options it could be easy to fall into scope creep.

It's also an area that Intrepid could explore when it comes to cosmetics. One way to approach this would be to have a defined "furniture set" in the game and then have some racial cosmetic packs. Although of course, I would prefer to have as much be in-game achievable as possible.

Dygz

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

He specifically stated "players building dungeons is disastrous"
So he is wrong in that, because players do make great dungeons and in multiplayers they do make great trap bases.

I was wrong in thinking that I didn't need to specify "in MMORPGs".
NWO being a primary example.
But, now that has been clarified.