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Shards or Megaserver?

VraakVraak Member
in General Discussion
I was a WoW vet and now an Elder Scrolls Online Player. I prefer the ESO megaserver over the shards. Which is Ashes of Creation going to be. Game looks amazing I hope it becomes a success.
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Comments

  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    No shards, no megaservers.
    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Servers
  • IronhopeIronhope Member
    No sharding, ever.

  • HalaeHalae Member, Alpha Two
    Unlike the vast majority of games, there's actually a point to having separate servers in this one.
  • TalentsTalents Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Neither.
    nI17Ea4.png
  • VraakVraak Member
    Maybe shard was the wrong term. AoC uses servers instead. Are the servers all connected? Meaning will every player be in the same logical entity regardless of server where they can have the possibility of interacting with each other or would you have to transfer servers if you wanted to play with a group of friends. I get the EU, APAC and NA having different logical entities but will all of the NA player be on the same logical entity. I read through the wiki and I guess I wasn’t as savvy as I thought I was in trying to understand how player interaction is going to work.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Vraak wrote: »
    Maybe shard was the wrong term. AoC uses servers instead. Are the servers all connected? Meaning will every player be in the same logical entity regardless of server where they can have the possibility of interacting with each other or would you have to transfer servers if you wanted to play with a group of friends. I get the EU, APAC and NA having different logical entities but will all of the NA player be on the same logical entity. I read through the wiki and I guess I wasn’t as savvy as I thought I was in trying to understand how player interaction is going to work.
    There's no connection between different servers. You have a server and that's its own entity. That's it. No server transfers either (at least so far). So if you want to play with your friends - choose the same server.
  • CROW3CROW3 Member, Alpha Two
    The node system provides players with the ability to impact Verra. All of the servers will start off as vanilla ice cream, and a year in you'll have 31 flavors ranging from vanilla to chocolate to mint fudge cookie moosetrack caramel peanut brittle ripple.

    If you connect the servers, you're just going to have 31 slightly different variations of vanilla ice cream.
    AoC+Dwarf+750v3.png
  • VraakVraak Member
    NiKr wrote: »
    Vraak wrote: »
    Maybe shard was the wrong term. AoC uses servers instead. Are the servers all connected? Meaning will every player be in the same logical entity regardless of server where they can have the possibility of interacting with each other or would you have to transfer servers if you wanted to play with a group of friends. I get the EU, APAC and NA having different logical entities but will all of the NA player be on the same logical entity. I read through the wiki and I guess I wasn’t as savvy as I thought I was in trying to understand how player interaction is going to work.
    There's no connection between different servers. You have a server and that's its own entity. That's it. No server transfers either (at least so far). So if you want to play with your friends - choose the same server.

    Can there be multiple servers per geographical location like NA, EU, APAC?

    What is the max population per server?

  • bloodprophetbloodprophet Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Servers

    Server population

    Population limits will be enforced on each server.[33]

    Around 8-10k concurrent users per server is projected.[34][14][35][36]
    Initially there will be a limited number of registered accounts (approximately 15,000) per server to help mitigate login queues.[37]
    This limit will increase over time to around 50,000 registered accounts per server.[37][38][39]
    There may be queues to get into high population servers, but the aim is to avoid excessively long queues.[39]
    The developers intend to carefully manage server populations via the use of character creation throttles to avoid the need to merge servers.[38][40]
    Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
  • VraakVraak Member
    Thanks for the helpful comments. I’ll probably jump in and give this a go. I doubt this game is going to appeal to the masses like ESO does but it looks promising. I really like the concept but server population was a main concern of mine.

    Due to the comments I’m in. I enjoy ESO but I like the class/race passivities this game has.

    Thanks for taking the time to explain it.
  • novercalisnovercalis Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I personally do not like the fact that server size is 8-10k.. that is way to big and prone for "Server dead" spams when the big wave of players leaves AoC after the hype wears off.

    Seriously, this game is gonna pull a New World in the sense of - it's gonna get 1+ mil users, but eventually 70-80% of these fuckers are gonna leave for another game or hype or whatever. They arent mmo players.

    20% of 1 mil is 200k which is still an amazing number, but ppl will see it as "fucking lawl, AoC Dead, lost 80% of its userbase, trash game, dead game. And Servers going from 10k to 2-4k because we choose to accomodate an absurb influx of players on hype.

    EQ Server felt great at 2k
    WoW Server felt great at 2.5k before they did the thing
    FFXI has a 8k cap, never played the game to say how it feels.
    UO:R current pop is 1.2k out of 1.5k when shards were created.

    is 10k too much for a server, when 5k is probably a more manageable number?

    PoE = 950k active users
    WoW = 1.11 mil active user
    Runescape 1.3mil active user
    FF14 = 3.5 mil active user
    New World Fresh Start = 100k active users (All time peak was 900k)


    EQ p99 = 3.5k (3 servers. Blue peaks 1.5, Green peaks 2k, Red is Dead)
    UO:R = 1.5k (1 shard, private server)
    City of Heroes (private) = 1.5k (1 server)

    I got caught up in RL and forgot my point lol
    I think what may end up hurting AoC unironically is the hype and having the game inflate so large, creating servers, for it to finally pop and then we got server merge issues, low number of players across all servers that doesnt fill the world with 10k.

    Hell, in in that crappy New World game, with fresh start, new servers are a cluster fuck mess.

    I do believe a 10k server cap is too large and most importantly
    what happened to REPUTATION Matters, when we got 10k playerbase. I aint gonna know all 10k players.
    a 2k server, YOU WILL KNOW PEOPLE, you will remember, ppl will be held accountable.. at 10k... you just blend in, as everything becomes blurry.
    everyone is just a walking npc at this point.
    {UPK} United Player Killer - All your loot belongs to us.
  • Nova_terraNova_terra Member, Alpha Two
    novercalis wrote: »
    I personally do not like the fact that server size is 8-10k.. that is way to big and prone for "Server dead" spams when the big wave of players leaves AoC after the hype wears off.

    Seriously, this game is gonna pull a New World in the sense of - it's gonna get 1+ mil users, but eventually 70-80% of these fuckers are gonna leave for another game or hype or whatever. They arent mmo players.

    20% of 1 mil is 200k which is still an amazing number, but ppl will see it as "fucking lawl, AoC Dead, lost 80% of its userbase, trash game, dead game. And Servers going from 10k to 2-4k because we choose to accomodate an absurb influx of players on hype.

    EQ Server felt great at 2k
    WoW Server felt great at 2.5k before they did the thing
    FFXI has a 8k cap, never played the game to say how it feels.
    UO:R current pop is 1.2k out of 1.5k when shards were created.

    is 10k too much for a server, when 5k is probably a more manageable number?

    PoE = 950k active users
    WoW = 1.11 mil active user
    Runescape 1.3mil active user
    FF14 = 3.5 mil active user
    New World Fresh Start = 100k active users (All time peak was 900k)


    EQ p99 = 3.5k (3 servers. Blue peaks 1.5, Green peaks 2k, Red is Dead)
    UO:R = 1.5k (1 shard, private server)
    City of Heroes (private) = 1.5k (1 server)

    I got caught up in RL and forgot my point lol
    I think what may end up hurting AoC unironically is the hype and having the game inflate so large, creating servers, for it to finally pop and then we got server merge issues, low number of players across all servers that doesnt fill the world with 10k.

    Hell, in in that crappy New World game, with fresh start, new servers are a cluster fuck mess.

    I do believe a 10k server cap is too large and most importantly
    what happened to REPUTATION Matters, when we got 10k playerbase. I aint gonna know all 10k players.
    a 2k server, YOU WILL KNOW PEOPLE, you will remember, ppl will be held accountable.. at 10k... you just blend in, as everything becomes blurry.
    everyone is just a walking npc at this point.

    I think at the end of the day 10k might not be so bad based on size of world, but that will be a feel thing for sure. I think the real "hold your breath" pain point area will be what you said when the exodus after "hype" is over. There is no doubt that people will leave when they realize the game isn't for them and Intrepid needs to be prepared to make mergers as seamless as possible as I am pretty sure that will ruffle hella feathers, but if they put in the work to make them go somewhat smoothly it might not be a shit show like most other attempts at merging.
  • VraakVraak Member
    I like the ESO model where everyone in NA is in the same logical entity. I don’t know how this pulled this off, it is still “instanced” but everyone in the game is in the same server for NA. It is what has kept me coming back to it. But AoC is more to my liking as far as the concept goes.
  • Happymeal2415Happymeal2415 Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    novercalis wrote: »
    Seriously, this game is gonna pull a New World in the sense of - it's gonna get 1+ mil users, but eventually 70-80% of these fuckers are gonna leave for another game or hype or whatever.

    Where did you buy your crystal ball? I've been trying to find one for a while but they're always out of stock
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Happymeal2415 wrote: »
    Where did you buy your crystal ball? I've been trying to find one for a while but they're always out of stock
    It's just the reality of mmos though. Especially in current times. In other words, this particular crystal ball is sold in every general store around.
  • novercalisnovercalis Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Happymeal2415 wrote: »
    novercalis wrote: »
    Seriously, this game is gonna pull a New World in the sense of - it's gonna get 1+ mil users, but eventually 70-80% of these fuckers are gonna leave for another game or hype or whatever.

    Where did you buy your crystal ball? I've been trying to find one for a while but they're always out of stock

    Steam Crystal Ball Stats
    {UPK} United Player Killer - All your loot belongs to us.
  • VraakVraak Member
    NiKr wrote: »
    Happymeal2415 wrote: »
    Where did you buy your crystal ball? I've been trying to find one for a while but they're always out of stock
    It's just the reality of mmos though. Especially in current times. In other words, this particular crystal ball is sold in every general store around.

    My take on current times. People have so many options for entertainment now and MMO's generally have to have broad appeal to the casual gamer. PvP just isn't what most people want to do. I've tried training the non-gamers types to get into PvP and some just aren't ever going to get it. They don't have what I call Mario skills to make it in a player vs player environment.

    Anyway, I'm going to throw down some bones and get into the alpha/beta. After seeing some of the footage my hopes are high. It looks like it is going to be a lot of fun.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Vraak wrote: »
    My take on current times. People have so many options for entertainment now and MMO's generally have to have broad appeal to the casual gamer. PvP just isn't what most people want to do. I've tried training the non-gamers types to get into PvP and some just aren't ever going to get it. They don't have what I call Mario skills to make it in a player vs player environment.
    You are contradicting yourself. You say that people have many options for entertainment and then immediately say that mmos can't have the same variety of options. I want a non-p2w owpvp mmo, but outside of 2 full loot games which are also fps and isometric - there's nothing else. Well, there's NW of course, but that I do not consider opt-in pvp "owpvp".

    So even if AoC does lose 80+% of its release playrbase, as long as those remaining 20% stay and keep their sub (with a few cosmetics here and there) I think the game can survive just fine and be one of those "many options for entertainment".
  • StreviStrevi Member
    novercalis wrote: »
    I think what may end up hurting AoC unironically is the hype and having the game inflate so large, creating servers, for it to finally pop and then we got server merge issues, low number of players across all servers that doesnt fill the world with 10k.

    I doubt the hype will be big in the context that the game may be released in 2024 - 2025 and meantime they reveal the game mechanics in great detail and even have a long Alpha 2 with no NDA. Will be like an early access game. I think this model cannot create hype. The Early Access principle is to sell unfinished games early, before they are ready but the release itself does not create as much hype as the moment when the game becomes accessible first time.
    September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Strevi wrote: »
    I doubt the hype will be big in the context that the game may be released in 2024 - 2025 and meantime they reveal the game mechanics in great detail and even have a long Alpha 2 with no NDA. Will be like an early access game. I think this model cannot create hype. The Early Access principle is to sell unfinished games early, before they are ready but the release itself does not create as much hype as the moment when the game becomes accessible first time.
    Alpha will supposedly show only half of the world. Now imagine that Intrepid manage to work amazingly with their community (kinda have been doing that already), develop a great game during that alpha2 and then have some nice advertisement before the release.

    Don't you think that "a good game with great devs that's about to get twice as big with fresh servers" would get a shitton of people?
  • StreviStrevi Member
    NiKr wrote: »
    Strevi wrote: »
    I doubt the hype will be big in the context that the game may be released in 2024 - 2025 and meantime they reveal the game mechanics in great detail and even have a long Alpha 2 with no NDA. Will be like an early access game. I think this model cannot create hype. The Early Access principle is to sell unfinished games early, before they are ready but the release itself does not create as much hype as the moment when the game becomes accessible first time.
    Alpha will supposedly show only half of the world. Now imagine that Intrepid manage to work amazingly with their community (kinda have been doing that already), develop a great game during that alpha2 and then have some nice advertisement before the release.

    Don't you think that "a good game with great devs that's about to get twice as big with fresh servers" would get a shitton of people?
    By hype I understand the unfunded excitement and hope that this MMO "is the one" which would cause shortly after the release the need to merge servers, as novercalis said above.

    During Alpha 2 streamers and youtubers and gaming sites will be spreading news.
    I doubt at release there will be players who will join to discover the game and leave because they expected something else.

    Maybe some will overestimate their tolerance to pvp and losing during caravans and node sieges and leave when their node falls? Can those cause a need to merge servers?
    September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
  • VeeshanVeeshan Member, Alpha Two
    NiKr wrote: »
    Vraak wrote: »
    Maybe shard was the wrong term. AoC uses servers instead. Are the servers all connected? Meaning will every player be in the same logical entity regardless of server where they can have the possibility of interacting with each other or would you have to transfer servers if you wanted to play with a group of friends. I get the EU, APAC and NA having different logical entities but will all of the NA player be on the same logical entity. I read through the wiki and I guess I wasn’t as savvy as I thought I was in trying to understand how player interaction is going to work.
    There's no connection between different servers. You have a server and that's its own entity. That's it. No server transfers either (at least so far). So if you want to play with your friends - choose the same server.

    prob be cash shop item tbh eventualy to server transfer but yeah wanna make sure ur on same server at launch :p
  • bloodprophetbloodprophet Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Veeshan wrote: »
    NiKr wrote: »
    Vraak wrote: »
    Maybe shard was the wrong term. AoC uses servers instead. Are the servers all connected? Meaning will every player be in the same logical entity regardless of server where they can have the possibility of interacting with each other or would you have to transfer servers if you wanted to play with a group of friends. I get the EU, APAC and NA having different logical entities but will all of the NA player be on the same logical entity. I read through the wiki and I guess I wasn’t as savvy as I thought I was in trying to understand how player interaction is going to work.
    There's no connection between different servers. You have a server and that's its own entity. That's it. No server transfers either (at least so far). So if you want to play with your friends - choose the same server.

    prob be cash shop item tbh eventualy to server transfer but yeah wanna make sure ur on same server at launch :p

    Hopefully not. It would mess with the local economy. Unless they transfer a naked character.
    Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
  • WHIT3ROS3WHIT3ROS3 Member
    You can play the may/might game as much as you want but until the game is actually launched there is no real way to tell. Server and active populations are such strange numbers. People talk about Wow and FFXIV player populations but the days when I feel like the world is bustling are few and far between. (I actually find the compartmentalized mega-server approach of EvE and Albion to produce a more populous feeling world)

    What is really important is that the world feels alive, but not overwhelmed. It'll be interesting come launch day. There will be a countdown, a 1200sqm sandbox and hundreds of thousands of players waiting to enter in through one of the 4 divine gateways.

    Stephen has talked about pre-registration before launch which I think would be a good idea. I just wonder how they intend to deal with thousands of players pouring in through the gateways at launch. The areas around the gateways could easily become overwhelmed. Perhaps each Gateway will be "capped" to only letting through 2500 players each so you will have an equal distribution of arriving players across the gateways and the world?

    I think the number is fine, it is just about managing the population.
  • bminturnbminturn Member
    I like having separate servers so that they can develop on their own. It's a throwback to the Dark Age of Camelot days when you may start on a server that is dominated by one realm, but the next server you try is dominated by another, except that it goes a lot deeper than that in AoC. You have an esprit de corps tied to it as well, and while that may not appeal as much to people who just want to jump in and power game, it takes the game to a different level of emersion that you can't get in ESO.
  • akabearakabear Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited November 2022
    Whist aware not planned, I had always wanted a mmo with literally 10`s of thousands of potential participants.

    If done again, I would like to see 3-6 additional sized maps with instanced bridged links to each other (if not capable as on instance) and if localized population overload was an issue, then build migration populations limits into the design and lore.

    Then, if the game expanded or decreased in population, instead of shutting down a server and moving players, they could be made or able to migrate within the current server by means of event or equivalent with a map swelling or shrinking size, and maintain a degree of harmony and overall population density target.
  • StreviStrevi Member
    akabear wrote: »
    Whist aware not planned, I had always wanted a mmo with literally 10`s of thousands of potential participants.

    If done again, I would like to see 3-6 additional sized maps with instanced bridged links to each other (if not capable as on instance) and if localized population overload was an issue, then build migration populations limits into the design and lore.

    Then, if the game expanded or decreased in population, instead of shutting down a server and moving players, they could be made or able to migrate within the current server by means of event or equivalent with a map swelling or shrinking size, and maintain a degree of harmony and overall population density target.

    I was thinking to post a similar suggestion, the servers to be chained on a virtual Vera with timezones like on Earth.
    But there are two drawbacks:
    - resource respawn rate which now is balanced for a server might not work well if servers are chained and players can fetch them from low populated ones, which cannot even be closed because the few players who may live there
    - all such servers would be the same, which brings no exploration feeling when traveling to new instances.

    They could limit the distance of traveling to only one server away from the original one and even make them look different but then would end up feeling like just a bigger map with one server which have some resources coming from other servers and players seeing slightly different map depending on which continent they start.
    September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
  • BotagarBotagar Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I honestly think the concept of "servers" is outdated and all future online games should move away.
    They are a relic of a period of time where software were monolithic deployables running on single machines.

    Times have moved on significantly since then.
    I would love to see and EVE Online -esque realm. Everyone from around the world in 1 virtual world.
    I would however be content with a single realm for each geographic region for ping.
    I would not like to see a population base fractured within a single geographic region.

    You get fun and surprising interactions when you have to deal with groups of people from nationalities you dont generally interact with.
    xuoo3xnnh3ny.png
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    novercalis wrote: »
    I personally do not like the fact that server size is 8-10k.. that is way to big and prone for "Server dead" spams when the big wave of players leaves AoC after the hype wears off.

    Seriously, this game is gonna pull a New World in the sense of - it's gonna get 1+ mil users, but eventually 70-80% of these fuckers are gonna leave for another game or hype or whatever. They arent mmo players.

    20% of 1 mil is 200k which is still an amazing number, but ppl will see it as "fucking lawl, AoC Dead, lost 80% of its userbase, trash game, dead game. And Servers going from 10k to 2-4k because we choose to accomodate an absurb influx of players on hype.

    EQ Server felt great at 2k
    WoW Server felt great at 2.5k before they did the thing
    FFXI has a 8k cap, never played the game to say how it feels.
    UO:R current pop is 1.2k out of 1.5k when shards were created.

    is 10k too much for a server, when 5k is probably a more manageable number?

    PoE = 950k active users
    WoW = 1.11 mil active user
    Runescape 1.3mil active user
    FF14 = 3.5 mil active user
    New World Fresh Start = 100k active users (All time peak was 900k)


    EQ p99 = 3.5k (3 servers. Blue peaks 1.5, Green peaks 2k, Red is Dead)
    UO:R = 1.5k (1 shard, private server)
    City of Heroes (private) = 1.5k (1 server)

    I got caught up in RL and forgot my point lol
    I think what may end up hurting AoC unironically is the hype and having the game inflate so large, creating servers, for it to finally pop and then we got server merge issues, low number of players across all servers that doesnt fill the world with 10k.

    Hell, in in that crappy New World game, with fresh start, new servers are a cluster fuck mess.

    I do believe a 10k server cap is too large and most importantly
    what happened to REPUTATION Matters, when we got 10k playerbase. I aint gonna know all 10k players.
    a 2k server, YOU WILL KNOW PEOPLE, you will remember, ppl will be held accountable.. at 10k... you just blend in, as everything becomes blurry.
    everyone is just a walking npc at this point.

    Don't agree with this, essentially you are saying they need to make the world smaller. This is a huge issue with new world with the server being so tiny it is hard to even play with your friends and they need an infinite number of servers and those will still die from the same exact issue.

    Server merges will always be a thing now adays. Should not be a reason to create a smaller world that will suffer from the same issue. Do to the larger server sizes they can have a much higher population before locking a server.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZfqaW5klpg
  • IskiabIskiab Member, Alpha Two
    edited November 2022
    Vraak wrote: »
    I like the ESO model where everyone in NA is in the same logical entity. I don’t know how this pulled this off, it is still “instanced” but everyone in the game is in the same server for NA. It is what has kept me coming back to it. But AoC is more to my liking as far as the concept goes.

    The answer for how ESO pulled it off is not well, lag was always an issue and world PvP was at times unplayable.
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