Greetings, glorious testers!
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Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
It would be a pretty strange game if it didn't have a day/night cycle.
What aspects of the day & night cycle w/ constellations are important to you?
Important? No, not really. I am interested to discover how constallations affect other systems. However, I'm sure it'll just be easy for someone to calculate timers for a website somewhere, and that would be sad.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the day & night cycle w/ constellations?
I actually kind of like how bright the night is.. but I'd like there to be an in game reason for it. The sky needs to also be brighter. Is there some kind of nebula that's casting this light? Right now it feels out of place.
Seriously, go outside anywhere not in a city and note how dark it is. even during a summer full moon on a cloudless day you aren't seeing more than silhouettes.
On that note, perhaps some variability. Cloudy day? darker nights. Winter? Darker nights (there is only one sun, right?). Ask anyone in Alaska about winter solstice. Night for days (the sun literally doesn't rise for a few days)
Also - I want to double-down on the comment that was made during the stream. The widescreen ratio does no work well during the stream and unlike what the producer said, we can't 'just zoom in' that's not a thing at least not on Mobile, and can't do it on the web either without messing up chat. I kinda don't care what Steven's preferred gaming resolution is - he's presenting for an audience.
* How do you feel about the day & night cycle?
Great, I watch the transition with my hot tears, it’s just beautiful.
* What aspects of the day & night cycle w/ constellations are important to you?
Yes, but in my imaginations contents in night are better than in day now because of the constellations.
* Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the day & night cycle w/ constellations?
I wondering how constellations can effect gameplay like maybe while Vek watching constellations and through astrology they able to get buffs or benefits to further amplify their identity.
A: Firstly, it looks phenomenal! Though, I do think some changes could bolster immersion even further. I think there should always come a heightened sense of danger that comes with the darkness. The ground seemed a bit too illuminated. It didn't feel much different from day. I completely agree with everything that Steven said during the showcase. You should reserve the feeling of true darkness for niche circumstances, but I think making it just dark enough so that it actually is a slight hindrance will aide in immersion.
Q: Are there examples of day & night cycles in other games that you feel are done well?
A: I think Valheim did a great job in this aspect. When it transitioned to night, not only was it dark and spooky, but you just knew it was more dangerous to be about. But then in games of that nature, it's easier to make it more dangerous because you have the option to sleep the night away.
Q: What aspects of the day & night cycle w/ constellations are important to you? Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding these?
A:The constellations are so cool and unique! I read another post above references LOTR and how moonlight is used to illuminate glyphs or scripts. I think that can lead to fantastically fun and memorable events for players to experience. The constellations or specific moons can be leveraged the create some unique experiences. For example, there could some glyphs etched into ancient ruins or a mountainside that light up when hit by light shown ONLY by a specific moon on a specific night where the moon is lined up just perfectly to make it through to the inscription.
--Incredible job to AoC team! It looks like you have assembled a team that is not only extremely talented and passionate, but they also seem like genuinely good people. You guys aren't just raising the bar to a whole new level, you are putting it in the stratosphere! Your transparency and commitment to the player-base is unparalleled and very much noticed and appreciated especially in today's environment. Hurry up and take my money please! (but take your time, lol)
What aspects of the day & night cycle w/ constellations are important to you? None really. The whole idea of it is cool but I could care less about them other than their affect on how I fight things.
Are there examples of day & night cycles in other games that you feel are done well? If so, in what ways? WoW using night to have little flavor events happen such as the undead in westfall are really cool.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the day & night cycle w/ constellations?
Concerned that constellations are going to be a thing I have to go do every time it becomes night-time. Especially if it becomes night several times throughout the real day. I would rather have constellations be a seasonal thing rather than a daily thing.
The darkness factor of night in Open world could potentially play an amazing part in PVP ambushes and evasion. But I can see the appeal of saving those factors for things like dungeons.
A: thought it looked great, its not a survival game, its an mmorpg with a beautiful world, i want to see it, see the monsters and other players. The night still had a great ambiance
I loved the day / night cycle, being able to see the movement of the moons and stars in the sky definitely gives the world a bit more depth.
Having some mobs change power level as a result (undead stronger/weaker at night/day, etc..) different spells increasing in power (i.e. a sunbeam/light style spell increasing in power in the daytime) would add another level to game play.
What aspects of the day & night cycle w/ constellations are important to you?
I didn't really understand if the constellation could only be seen at certain locations, if the highlight of it was due to your characters ability to discern the pattern or that happens randomly or if you looked at the spot for X amount of time.
Though honestly, looking at the sky in third person was odd. I would much rather switch to a first person view so that I didn't have a third of my screen being taken up by me or whatever is too close to me.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the day & night cycle w/ constellations?
The aesthetics of the day & night cycle were cool, but hopefully it has some meaning.
For game play, it would be nice if it were overall a bit darker so that having a light source of some kind may need to be a consideration. It doesn't have to be pitch black like in survival games, but needing to think about a source of light, or night vision would be amazing.
The day night cycle looked great! cant wait to just sit and watch the sunset.
I feel the darkness of night needs to be a little darker. The reason is that there were lamp posts in the graveyard that barely lit up the area because the ambient light of the sky was still too bright. If we think its too dark we can always adjust our screen brightness in the settings. The other reason it should be darker is that the graveyard was not even scary because it was so bright out. It doesn't have to be pitch black but it does have to be darker.
What aspects of the day & night cycle w/ constellations are important to you?
Brightness is important to emersion. Seeing your party members is one thing but once you adjust the brightness of night all the spooky areas aren't spooky anymore.
Having constellations is cool but i was unsure of how it popped up do you press something for it to appear in the sky? Because you passed it several times and it didn't appear.
I hope there many different iterations of sky for day and night. Some days where there is lots of clouds some where its a clear sky. Sunsets that have more purple in the sky. Im guessing the weather system will help that out alot.
Can't wait to sit and enjoy Verra's many sunrises and sunsets.
member of Gray Sentinels
Development Update with Cleric, Day & Night, and Constellations - 11AM PT Friday, December 2, 2022
I gotta repeat myself, don't be affraid of making just a little darker, the spells and other light sources will look even prettier. Yesterday looked too bright, today is still looking too bright
Sky could be darker too, not fully black tough
I think it's important to ensure the transitions between day/night, dawn/dusk are smooth and atmospheric. This could be achieved with animals behaviour changing, birds tweeting, wolfs howling etc. Wildlife sounds and atmosphere will really help to immerse the players in the changing world.
Q: Are there examples of day & night cycles in other games that you feel are done well? If so, in what ways?
I think Minecraft has a very strong day/night cycle. Not necessarily for it's graphics but the way the day/night cycle impacts your gameplay. Once the dark starts to set in, dangerous mobs start roaming and stepping outside comes with increased risk. It requires you to strategize and potentially alter your plans. It would be cool in AoC if the night time forces you to play more cautiously and plan more. I feel night time should be dangerous!
Q: Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the day & night cycle w/ constellations?
I am very excited to see and learn more about the constellations. They looked great in the video and could really help to add to the lore and immersion. I wonder if Vera will have light houses in coastal regions to help sailors navigate the seas safely at night?
Keep up the awesome work guys, the game looks amazing. I can't wait to play!!
In Harvest Moon games (the precursors to Stardew Valley), there is no bgm at night and the sounds become entirely environmental - this sets a really good night-time atmosphere because it really punctuates the difference between day and night and your ears latch onto quieter noises.
In Ashes - I think this would be doubly punctuated because the silence of the night can be broken by music coming from a tavern, or nearby player activity, or the howl of a beast in the distance. It also makes twilight feel special, because at dawn when music begins to stir then you feel the morning coming, or at dusk when the BGM lulls then you feel the day settling.
It's a really powerful effect and I'd love to see it in Ashes!
Also, I don't know what features are planned to be implemented that correlate to the day/night cycle but there's alot more that can be done with it other than constellations and some enemies changing at night.
Just some suggestions:
- Meteors shower at rare nights, causing some meteors to fall to the ground and provide rare ore
- Special events happening only during a certain time of the day, like the opening of a special dungeon / area
- Maybe introduce tide and ebb according to time of the day, revealing hidden treasure or something like that
Also, one thing that is important in my mind that the day and night cycles are not divisible by the numbers of hours of the real life day, because most people will play at a constant time window, and you don't want them to always see the same time of the day.
It should be on a certain cycle where if I for example play between 9pm to 11pm everyday, I see different time of the day/night cycle and not the same one every day I play.
Edit: Also, crickets! definitely have crickets!
please show us the rogue
thank you
This is off topic, but I do want to make a suggestion about the mob react mechanics in combat. I feel that having the mobs flinch when hit makes the combat more immersive and just overall feels better.
Overall great so far, looking forward for more reveals. Thank You everyone who worked on this!
Moons too close/ too big but the rest of the night sky looked great, more color could be implemented though!
member of Gray Sentinels
I just think it would be cool at certain times. For example, my party and I have a quest to explore this graveyard. We set out and by the time we get there, night has fallen, and a storm has moved in, now the graveyard which would have been a bit spooky under the moonlight, and scary and ominous in the storm. We as players obviously also have the choice to come back during the day or even another night. wait for the storm to pass. I wouldn't want it to always be the darkest night everywhere, but when the weather and environment deem it necessary. Then the darker the better in my opinion.
As for the rest of it, I agree with everything @Arya_Yeshe mentioned in their post. The Witcher 3, and even final fantasy 15 have great lighting systems, which change depending on the location weather, and environment. Naturally, at night a Forest should be darker than an open field because being under the canopy of trees would block light from the moon.
However, having it as dark as a survival game requiring an entire raid party to have a torch lit would be kind of cancerous.
-The night needs to be a bit darker not so dark that you can't play the game but darker than what we saw in this showcase it looked like mid-day rain.
- The next thing that stood out to me is it felt like too many of the mobs were incredibly stagnant. They just sit there and auto-attack we really need more life out of even lower-tier mobs in my opinion. Maybe dodge abilities and re-engage long-range abilities for the dogs for example. The cultist we saw just stood there and had no real disengage to make combat a bit more challenging. The Zombies need to move faster and have faster attacks they just completely were not a threat in any way.
- The last but probably the most important thing is reducing the number of rooted player abilities. I think this is very important I saw way to many abilities that were just missing enemies by a hair because they take to long to cast and there is no way to re-adjust them. For example, the warrior hammer ability just seems very, very clunky. These are the kinds of things that only get noticed in combat but it makes for very clunky gameplay.
Agreed, if darkness vs brightness are dependant on the enviroment it would be really cool, including the moons in that math
For now it looks like the moons are just placeholders while the system is being developed, the moons are far from being launch day material, its a work in progress
The fog looks great, keep making improvements and try to get it to behave as close as you can to real life. If I had to say one thing that is in a great place right now I would say it's the environments
Is it possible to add Head-Tilt to our characters?
In the video at around 12:40 where everyone is looking at the stars trying to find a constellation, you can't tell people are looking at the sky.
Compare this to Minecraft (or most FPS games) - being able to see which direction someone is looking is a pretty simple element of human body-language expression that adds a lot of value to social expression/communication. Please consider it!
EDIT: perhaps this is only needed when the FOV is zoomed in.
I know players also like to be able to see the front of their characters sometimes too - but doesn't it make more sense to use a 'photo' mode when you want to see yourself?
I'd be almost certain that they just haven't gotten to this yet, or intend to use the 'head points in direction of your softlock/Tab target if they are in the frontal cone'
This is REALLY easy, but doing it in the correct way when you have the above, but then only having it work when you have 'no target', in a game with Ashes' intended targeting systems, would have some potential for annoying edge-cases (where it has trouble switching back).
The way the combat and adventuring looks right now reminds me so much of d&d which is what the game is heavily based on. Bringing back old school adventuring where you have to think about what you're doing (taking breaks to regain mana, being cautious what path you take and where you step because zombies could come out of the ground) is part of the philosophy of the game, but people seem to forget what they've been asking for.
Additionally we've only seen three characters together fighting basic mobs. I think that when we actually have hundreds of players fighting each other keeping the combat at this pace will be way more like a real battle with more personal and prolonged interactions than a cluster of player models running through each other where you get one shot and then just respawn.
Also the night looks amazing I suppose it could be darker but thats the only possible criticism. I saw people saying the night skybox looked bad but they have to be smoking crack or something.
This makes sense as a gameplay element in survival games, but I really dislike it in MMOs.
TLDR: Having night being colorful and still bright enough to see stuff easily is HIGHLY preferred. Good work.
The broken moon thing seemed a little odd. Surely, if the moon was orbiting at that distance and speed, and then something blew it up, the broken pieces would either fall to the ground or fly off into space? I don't see that there would be multiple, differently-sized pieces left sitting next to each other. But, perhaps there's some sort of lore thing that we've not yet been told.
Regarding the constellations, it seems odd that you have to stand in a certain point to be able to see them, as stars are generally visible from any outside area. If you can see them from one hill, then you should be able to see them from another. In the video, you seemed to be having to run to certain locations in order to look up and see them. And I hope that the Sandal constellation is just a Testing thing, cos sure, we like to joke and meme on it, but I think it'd be a little cheesy if it made it into the actual game.
I think having a day and night cycle is imperative for any MMO which wish to establish a living world. The degree to how dark or light it gets is hard to measure before your in it. I still want to be able to see things at night though. I am fine with really dark areas, especially if it is limited to areas in which your trying to bring in some horror elements or areas with lore for it.
What aspects of the day & night cycle w/ constellations are important to you?
I really like it when stars, sun, and moons slowly move as the day/night cycle progresses. I really would love to see some elements in the world change depending on the time of day. Even things, you may not be able to find at certain times of the day, secrets. But when the stars align who knows.
I think the direction is great with this design in the game. I would suggest though, to really make this element standout. You would also need greater cycles in the game. We have a day and night. We also have seasonal changes. When considering the positions and orientation of stars, moons, and the sun (or other celestial mysteries) , it would be great to see a cycle in between the day/night and seasonal changes. Since the moon is not always full, stars move slowly and the sun changes where it sets.
Game looks great!
Full Answer:
I think the team are doing an amazing job with development and this months showcase was fantastic.
I've had some thoughts and constructive criticism around the day and night system which might be of use below.
Night time light levels: The current presented night phase is very bright. If one were to pan the camera to the ground and remove the sound effects, it would not be obvious that it was night time. Other backers here have suggested it could be a gloomy day, and i think this is a fair comparison. I can see why this has been done though; there is a concern that poor light levels and visibility could negatively affect the game play during this time of the DNC (day night cycle). Although this is a reasonable concern, I think this somewhat misses a broader point. The DNC should have a meaningful effect on game play, The time of day should impact risk and players making a decision whether to head out into the wilderness during the middle of the night. Heading out at night is a risk which is visibly tangible. For example, player know there is less visibility and creatures and players could wait in the shadows unseen, but at this time of night, there is usually less competition for resources. Perhaps there is a flower which only secrets its nectar in the moonlight, which can only be harvested at night. Maybe certain trees have magical properties they imbue into their wood, but can only be discerned at night, as their leaves glow gently under the stars. Maybe certain areas require torch or mage light, adding a creepy feel to them at night.
There is a real opportunity to make the DNC meaningful here. Now this does not mean that night should be pitch black, i think there is a balance which needs to be struck, but it should have a difference which feels significant and affects the world and player choice.
Day Night Cycle (DNC) Duration: It was mentioned that the current DNC would be a few hours. I would suggest that this may be too short. A three hour period would mean players have eight full DNC during a 24 hour period. A concern i would have is that during long play sessions, the times would flit past too quickly and could become jarring. If there is meaningful consequences of the DNC, then players would not have much time to take advantage or make decisions regarding the time of day.
I would suggest that there should be four 6-hour DNC in a 24 hour period. This would still provide most players the ability to play in their preferred time of day (as there are four opportunities in the day), but long enough that players will need to make larger consideration when entering the wilderness. This would also allow for the alteration to the DNC which i will suggest next.
Night time darkness should not be uniform. Like midday is the brightest time of the day, there are different levels of darkness at night which are dependant on the presence of the moon, cloud cover and tree canopies and importantly, the time of night. If we assume that there is approximately (dependant on season) 3 hours of day and 3 hours of night (with some transitional crossover), the darkest points of the night would not cover the full 3 hours of night. For example, in this 6 hour DNC suggestion, true night (The darkest point of night) would be at midnight and only last an hour, before slowly getting brighter before entering the transition period to the day time. This would mean that players who do not like this this darker time, could reasonably avoid it, or interact with other game play elements which do not require them to venture out into the dark. This would create a meaningful consequence of the DNC.
Ending Sentiment
The team at Intrepid are doing a fantastic job, and the game looks absolutely stunning. I look forward to seeing what you come up with next. I think that there is great opportunity with the DNC to have game play elements embedded within it, similarly with seasons. If you got this far, thank you for taking the time to read this. I hope it made sense.
Thank you
Coil
Generally I really liked that the night wasn't too dark. It also makes sense looking at the bright skybox and the moons.
The only problem with the lighting I had is that I felt some shadows were way too dark in comparison to the general light level. So there were some hard contrasts that don't make much sense. Some trees for example were completely black although other objects and the ground around them was pretty bright.
The fog looked good but having it on top of pillars, tombstones and trees fels a little off. It should be mostly on ground level imo.
Have a good one and keep up the great work.