Skill: Battle Meditation

Skill battle meditation for regenerating mana during combat would be EXTREMELY NICE, but you would have to stay still, if you move then you would leave the trance.

You would be able to attack and defend while having all cooldowns increased in 100%

I would rather have an active battle meditation skill than having fast regens or spells that cost nearly no mana
There's games with passive skills like this, it's kinda boring because having that skill becomes mandatory for nearly every build

yay or nay?

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neuroguy

Sounds interesting and interactive, I'd be ok with it as long is it exists as one of several options for solving mana issues.

Arya_Yeshe

@Vaknar please, consider forwarding this to the team?

An active Battle Meditation skill would allow mana regen during combat, but all abilities/spells would have their cooldowns increased in 100% or even more... and you should not move because moving cancels the Battle Meditation

Since the cooldowns are increased this would prevent people from casting their strongest spell, then entering battle meditation and recasting the strongest spell again... this prevents people from living off the strongest spell only

This trade off is good and you would have to be inteligent about it's uses, this Battle Meditation is almost a panic button for casters, you would used it if you are serious about it

Do an animation kinda like saiyan transformation and bring strong wind from the floor up to the character's head... so we can see their clothes and hair shaking!

This will let people look at you and see what you are up to

Songcaller

Meditation in battle would get you killed. What a silly idea.

Arya_Yeshe

Neurath wrote: »

Meditation in battle would get you killed. What a silly idea.

Only if you abuse it and don't plan it right

There's no free meal here, if it's a free meal then people will force themselves in having this and spamming it, battle meditation is for big brains move

Songcaller

I used to meditate in SWG as Teras Kasi but never in battle. Not even Jedi use Mind Tricks and meditation in battle. If force users don't utilise meditation in battle why would Essence be more suited?

Arya_Yeshe

Neurath wrote: »

I used to meditate in SWG as Teras Kasi but never in battle. Not even Jedi use Mind Tricks and meditation in battle. If force users don't utilise meditation in battle why would Essence be more suited?

the BM in SWG is for parties, right? Good for using after battles too

After watching yesterday's stream, how dynamic the fights were and seeing the current mana management, I think it will be better if the system lets people burn a bit more mana and give different tools for mana regen

So an active individual Battle Meditation that offer fast regen, but the trade off brings you danger, could be very engaging

Can you imagine, you can regen mana, but your damage is halved and you can't run away... this is GOOD because you won't be able to kite and regen at the same time... you gotta bite the bullet if you want mana

If you could regen mana while running then you would bring the "endless fights" situation that plagued many games, regen while kiting can do that

My proposed Battle Meditation would bring you mana, but you gotta brace for impact... this skill would not bring the danger of bringing endless fights to AoC... cause you can literally die if you spam this

Songcaller

There was no mage in the group. Mage gives mana and perhaps Bard might too.

Arya_Yeshe

This skill could bring mana while deviating from the danger of endless fights, this is why I called @Vaknar, the devs need every possible help against the curse of endless fights

Songcaller

People don't want endless fights. We haven't seen debuffs yet. We haven't seen bard buffs yet. We want mana management not spam, meditate, spam, meditate, spam, meditate.

Depraved

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

Skill battle meditation for regenerating mana during combat would be EXTREMELY NICE, but you would have to stay still, if you move then you would leave the trance.

You would be able to attack and defend while having all cooldowns increased in 100%

I would rather have an active battle meditation skill than having fast regens or spells that cost nearly no mana
There's games with passive skills like this, it's kinda boring because having that skill becomes mandatory for nearly every build

yay or nay?

no, because it removes utility from classes that can restore mana, and makes it so that every1 can pretty much solo farm nonstop.

for example, did you see the archer running out of mana very often during the last stream? with such a skill he could use it after every pull and probably be at 100% mana all the time, reducing the need for downtime or mana from other classes.

Ace1234

Im just gonna paste what I posted in the stream feedback thread since this is my stance on the topic. I went in depth on why I think currently the flow of the experience could be improved through tweaking the mana system and its depletion rates, and how this can be done as I explain down below.

How mana depletion fits into the "flow of the experience"

I don't really see a point in having your mana deplete so abruptly with not much flexibility, forcing you to leave combat to then sit and recharge it. I don't mind sitting as a mechanic as it is now, but it is less engaging than actually being in a fight- so seeing as how the mana can deplete relatively quickly, why force the player to have that "downtime" so frequently? I think it would be much better to increase mana efficiency and recharge rates (at an individual level, and not reliant on potions or teammate buffs). Doing this would make sure that:
1. survivability builds that rely on long-term mana sustainability, are more viable
2. the player can go much longer periods of time enjoying the combat before being forced to sit and take a break to rejuvinate (if at all? Because- Can you really safely leave your computer while doing this to utilize these short spurts of downtime, compared to implementing linger periods of downtime elsewhere? Otherwise why downgrade from combat to "the sitting experience", other than encouraging more social interactions, but does it have to happen that frequently?)
- The power and intelligence of the enemies could be increased to compensate for the improvement to mana usage- which would overall result in more exhilerating combat and for longer periods of time
- mana regen could even be tied to an active skill that you have access to at all times to weave between your movement and attacks to recharge your mana- or mana regen could be tied to successfully dodging/evading/landing attacks, as I will explain below.

I think in order to enhance the overall flow of the experience, specifically within the mana depletion system- the best option would be to
reward "successful combat actions" with mana. This could be the act of blocking an attack (maybe with a perfect parry rewarding more mana), it could be a well timed dodge rewarding mana, a successful attack rewarding mana, etc.
I think this is a multi-faceted solution that could:

1. Encourage people to engage with both the defensive/offensive aspects of the combat system, since a "successful action" would require an interaction between offense/defense to occur. This would counteract the tendency people have to use the strategy of avoiding combat altogether in an attempt to optimize survival, even when the design intention is for people to fight (the topic I addressed in the combat pacing section)
2. This would also Maximize the "flow" experience that people get when they are doing well and having a good time. If someone is doing good and having fun, this would provide them with the resource that allows them to continue doing so for a longer period of time, rather than having their experience halted when running out of mana.
3. It also would still allow for downtime to occur if desired for socialization and "time respect" purposes, by allowing them to run out of mana when they are not fighting as efficiently, because they wouldn't be getting that mana rewarded if they aren't getting those "successful actions" at a high enough rate to continue fighting

As a side note because its relevant to the point I am making about mana regen- I feel I should bring up the fact that there has already been some discussion in other recent threads about tieing mana regen to other support classes or potions. I don't think potions would be a good idea for mana regen mid-combat, because mid-combat potions should require inherhent risk to avoid potion spam invalidating combat skill- so if there is risk with mid-combat potions, you would need to use your combat skill to put yourself in a position to safely use your mana potions, which would kind of be hard to do with no mana- meaning you probly wouldn't be able to safely use them mid-combat, resulting in no mana and having to take a break from combat to recharge, which equals less fun, far too frequently with the current mana depletion rates. I also don't like having to rely on teammates to be able to play and use my skills, it sounds less fun, so I wouldn't want to mana regen being tied to support classes either. I think more efficient base mana usage and regen tied to combat performance for each individual class would be best.

Vaknar

Love seeing ideas and theory-crafting

I look forward to when we're all able to test out the combat, especially in circumstances similar to the ones shown on this past livestream

Ace1234

@Neurath

People don't want endless fights. We haven't seen debuffs yet. We haven't seen bard buffs yet. We want mana management not spam, meditate, spam, meditate, spam, meditate.

I feel like people want the combat to end, because its generally not as fun, or they get tired of it when it starts to drag on. Generally, if the combat is fun and you are performing well, you won't want to abruptly stop. I think by tieing mana regen to combat performance, this would be very interesting because it would allow for combat to continue when you are doing well, which will allow for you to continue those fights that are super close/intense when you are in the zone, and the moment you start to feel it drag on and you leave "the zone" your mana would reflect that and give you a reason to leave combat to sit down and take a break/socialize.

This would also avoid the "spam/meditate/spam/meditate" cycle, by having the mana regen being tied to the action itself.

akabear

Sounds like a great skill for a boxed character

Arya_Yeshe

@Ace1234 yes, exactly, such type of mediation that has a big trade off would make people think twice before they think of spamming such skill, this skill would pretty much be a panic button if you are desperate for mana

@akabear possibly yes

@Depraved i never said it would be for all classes, it's up to Intrepid to decide where this would fit since they have all cards at hand

I though of such skill after watching the Cleric update stream, I think mana use could be a little harsher and then bring some mana regens to the table, but should be mana regns with trade offs that could actually get you killed if you simply spam it without a care

Songcaller

If you want high mana regen you would take the relevant stat and boost natural mana regeneration. You would also group with a mage. It is difficult to discern what needs adjustment when we watch level 15 and have not played a2 yet.

Arya_Yeshe

Neurath wrote: »

If you want high mana regen you would take the relevant stat and boost natural mana regeneration. You would also group with a mage. It is difficult to discern what needs adjustment when we watch level 15 and have not played a2 yet.

That is too bland and tasteless

bov

Comparing this idea to how it's done in ESO;

There is a skill from the psijic order skill line known as Meditate which does pretty much what you're describing here. This skill was never used in serious content as it's better to just work on keeping your sustain up so you can keep pumping healing or damage without having to take a break. An alternative to meditating mid-battle would be support skills such as the Templar's spears (also from ESO) where you could essentially provide a buff for their team which restores a bit of their resources, but it has a pretty long cooldown before it can be used again. The templar would support the team's sustain, but it's still up to the player to practice good mana/stamina management in order to be a successful DPS or healer/support.

Songcaller

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

That is too bland and tasteless

I'm not sure your position is any better.

Meditate would be annihilated in PvP. You might be able to grind faster in PvE but there's no guarantee of that.

Meditation is used to heal body and mind. In SWG it healed wounds. Why you would link meditation to mana is beyond my ability to comprehend. Would you state all tibetan monks use mana after meditation?

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