Universal Defensives and Class Kits.

Solvryn

TTP: To keep archetypes distinct, they all receive a superior form of a universal defensive.

All classes can block, but only Tanks can brace.

All classes can sprint, but only Ranger can dash.

All classes can dodge, but only Rogue can evade.

Universal Defenses can have a base action ability that can be augmented by a meaningful defensive button press that lasts for a limited time, stays within the hybrid theme and allows for tertiary/waterfall stat passive mitigation to remain impactful.

I'm not into over complicated explanations, I'll check back after work today.

Gdaay

Ace1234

Im of the opinion that from the action perspective- all characters should all be able to perform the universal combat functions in the same way- to create an overall more engaging combat system where there are more variety of viable tools to manage and tactics to use- in order to avoid pidgeon holing people into certain specific stagnant combat styles through rigid meta roles from an action standpoint- but with the class distinction coming through each classes' effectiveness after an action is performed (so things like resource usage/numerical values/etc.), rather than discouraging them to use a particular action in a fight due to being objectively worse at it.


I think this would be a better idea as situational class skills, rather than base mechanics- since there would be limited usage, making the base versions still usable when the skills aren't available on either side.

McShave

Ace1234 wrote: »

I think this would be a better idea as situational class skills, rather than base mechanics- since there would be limited usage, making the base versions still usable when the skills aren't available on either side.

I would be very much ok with Intrepid using these superior abilities as class talent points. Then, you have to use a talent point in that over putting it in another ability or weapon talent slot.

Voeltz

Personally, I'd like to see a dodge or dash be a universal skill and the rest be dependant on the weapon type you're actively using. So it would look like:

Melee - parry (blocks melee attacks)
Shield- block (blocks melee attacks and projectiles)
Magic - magic barrier (blocks magic projectiles or directionals)
Ranged- dash/dodge (depending on which is universal)

You could then spec into those defensives within your class or weapon tree to enhance them

Halae

McShave wrote: »

I would be very much ok with Intrepid using these superior abilities as class talent points. Then, you have to use a talent point in that over putting it in another ability or weapon talent slot.

That's probably the best way to handle this sort of thing. That way it's not a baseline assumption of the class in question, which can actually lead to imbalances in the game flow depending on what fight you're in. If it's something you actually have to invest in, that creates an overhead requirement that severely mitigates what that kind of imbalance means, as every archetype has unique things they can invest in.

Solvryn

Ace1234 wrote: »

Im of the opinion that from the action perspective- all characters should all be able to perform the universal combat functions in the same way- to create an overall more engaging combat system where there are more variety of viable tools to manage and tactics to use- in order to avoid pidgeon holing people into certain specific stagnant combat styles through rigid meta roles from an action standpoint- but with the class distinction coming through each classes' effectiveness after an action is performed (so things like resource usage/numerical values/etc.), rather than discouraging them to use a particular action in a fight due to being objectively worse at it.


I think this would be a better idea as situational class skills, rather than base mechanics- since there would be limited usage, making the base versions still usable when the skills aren't available on either side.

I get you, I just realize for a hybrid perspective instead of casting "Bulwark" where a Tank gets passive mitigation for Blocking, they press Bulwark to brace instead of blocking.

Makes the actions and the buttons have a flow and meaning.

Solvryn

Halae wrote: »

McShave wrote: »

I would be very much ok with Intrepid using these superior abilities as class talent points. Then, you have to use a talent point in that over putting it in another ability or weapon talent slot.

That's probably the best way to handle this sort of thing. That way it's not a baseline assumption of the class in question, which can actually lead to imbalances in the game flow depending on what fight you're in. If it's something you actually have to invest in, that creates an overhead requirement that severely mitigates what that kind of imbalance means, as every archetype has unique things they can invest in.

I'm very much in the game that each archetype needs a superior mitigation tool while that tool remaining unique to class fantasy.

Fitting the hybrid combat they set forth, it checks all the boxes.

Liniker

I like this

Solvryn

Reading the forums more, I generally tend to think each archetype doing a piece of universal abilities better than the others is the way to go.

Gui10

Solvryn wrote: »

TTP:
All classes can block, but only Tanks can brace.

All classes can sprint, but only Ranger can dash.

All classes can dodge, but only Rogue can evade.

Very creative and interesting idea imo!

Need some for other classes now..

All classes can enhance their pets according to their main class but only summoners can enhance their pets with ANY OTHER classe's enhancement.

What else?

Solvryn

Gui10 wrote: »

Solvryn wrote: »

TTP:
All classes can block, but only Tanks can brace.

All classes can sprint, but only Ranger can dash.

All classes can dodge, but only Rogue can evade.

Very creative and interesting idea imo!

Need some for other classes now..

All classes can enhance their pets according to their main class but only summoners can enhance their pets with ANY OTHER classe's enhancement.

What else?

I suppose we'll have to see what more universal skills and there will be and which is more appropriate for an archetype.

I suppose for Cleric it would be only a Cleric can truly heal as throughput is a form of mitigation.

All classes can jump but only a mage can Teleport (without obstruction) distances.

It doesn't even have to be all defensives, it can be a breakdown of four universal defensives for four archetypes and four universal offensives for a split that only each class does extremely well.

Gui10

Solvryn wrote: »

It doesn't even have to be all defensives, it can be a breakdown of four universal defensives for four archetypes and four universal offensives for a split that only each class does extremely well.

Instead of 4 off and 4 def, I am thinking
2 Def (tank and cleric)
2 mobility (ranger and rogue)
2 Magic (Mage and summoner)
1 support (bard)
1 offensive (warrior)
Tentative: replace rangers mobility by Ranger "nature".

Universal passives and each class can boost their own passive type, yeah that would be awesome tbh!