Grinding/Farming for profession and Jobs

Hello everyone !
I'm here to have an "open reflexion" and possibly ask for you're opinion on that topic.
When we talk about MMO we implicitly now that there WILL be grinding and or farming ( possibly meaning the same thing

) But the really question should be the extent of that grinding, the length and size, should I farm in the same spot for X hours a day for a month to lv up ? repetitive and "useless" action. If I want to craft an iron armor , is one mining is enough or do I need all the afternoon of mining to do ONE armor ?

And then the same thing appen for the crafting, to lv up my crafting do i need to craft the same Item 100² times to lv up ?
I know a lot of MMOs are like that, but I think it's basicly stupid, there should be meaning in everything you're doing.
I don't really know how you could make the "gathering processe" not the sensation of "farming". but I think there should be deep dive in what you want in that aspec.

( ref to new world or ESO, where you farm for hours to craft like 1-2 weapon )

and you what do you think ? do you like grinding for hours ? or should there be an alternative ?

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Ludullu

I love grinding. Imo there should always be some amount of grinding in mmos, but there should be enough variety to that grinding and enough alternative ways to get what you want, so that you like the grind rather than consider it all boring and pointless.

Any and all games that require you to do any type of activity for longer than an hour or two (though even those can be considered too much) will have grind in them. It's just that some people like that grind so they don't call the activity that.

Azherae

I don't like the question. Here is why.

Imagine a game where you can do 6 different activities that are all fun and this is really good progress.

Even if each of those activities is 'best done for 20 minutes at a time before shifting to another activity, there's probably a 'most rewarding' way to do that.

Some players will use the most rewarding way so that they can get rewards the fastest. They may start to have less fun because of this, but maybe they are making up for it by enjoying the rewards. They get ahead of other people. Sometimes those other people feel bad that they're not doing the most rewarding thing, so they also do it, but they find it less fun.

Human brains are largely pattern-matching devices if given a reward structure and left to themselves. They will optimize themselves out of having to actually DO any content at all unless the person is paying attention.

Therefore the optimal way to play the game is usually not fun for EVERYONE. To be 'optimal' you must give up some fun, or be one of the lucky few who REALLY REALLY enjoys the optimal playstyle.

These days, even the most basic MMOs don't involve grinding. You could just 'have fun instead of getting rewards' in everything but the absolute worst games. Then again, you mentioned two of them.

Bad games are just bad, they don't imply anything about the rest of the genre, if anything they imply something about PEOPLE.

Strevi

Dreugui wrote: »

And then the same thing appen for the crafting, to lv up my crafting do i need to craft the same Item 100² times to lv up ?
I know a lot of MMOs are like that, but I think it's basicly stupid, there should be meaning in everything you're doing.

They asked for feedback some time ago.
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/49279/dev-discussion-30-crafting/p1

I am curious how the crafting will end up.

Depraved

Dreugui wrote: »

Hello everyone !
I'm here to have an "open reflexion" and possibly ask for you're opinion on that topic.
When we talk about MMO we implicitly now that there WILL be grinding and or farming ( possibly meaning the same thing ) But the really question should be the extent of that grinding, the length and size, should I farm in the same spot for X hours a day for a month to lv up ? repetitive and "useless" action. If I want to craft an iron armor , is one mining is enough or do I need all the afternoon of mining to do ONE armor ?

And then the same thing appen for the crafting, to lv up my crafting do i need to craft the same Item 100² times to lv up ?
I know a lot of MMOs are like that, but I think it's basicly stupid, there should be meaning in everything you're doing.
I don't really know how you could make the "gathering processe" not the sensation of "farming". but I think there should be deep dive in what you want in that aspec.

( ref to new world or ESO, where you farm for hours to craft like 1-2 weapon )

and you what do you think ? do you like grinding for hours ? or should there be an alternative ?

all we know is that crafting will be hard and take a long time.

Dreugui

Strevi wrote: »

They asked for feedback some time ago.
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/49279/dev-discussion-30-crafting/p1

I am curious how the crafting will end up.

Oh, I wasn't here at the time. thank's

Depraved wrote: »

all we know is that crafting will be hard and take a long time.

But, taking time and beeing repetitive are too separate things. It dosn't matter to me if it take time, the important is : it's not the same thing again and again and again ( like new world or ESO here you just make cercle to farm the same ressource to have enough to craft 150 weapon to lv up your crafting skill )

Taleof2Cities

If repetition isn’t an option, @Dreugui, how do you propose leveling then?

Is there an MMO that stands out for you crafting-wise … that takes time and is meaningful?

Krakhun

If there is a goal I'm trying to reach, like gather enough materials to craft something, fish up some treasure maps, or just make enough money to buy something I want, I will happily relax and do mindless grinding for hours. I don't mind that at all. What I think is important, is that the grind is worth while. Also in a game like this it will be important to take breaks if only to bank materials every once in a while.

Villefort

I think an immersive world is key for what you're describing. If you have a large world where you have lots and lots of opportunities and different materials that can be substituted then it doesn't feel like such a chore.

Breath of the Wild to me is a good example...I could "farm" for hours in that game because the world was so immersive and dynamic and the materials were scattered all over...so its' not like I had to park in 1 zone and only farm there for hours on end.

Just my opinion though. I was content with listening to music and farming herbs / ore in WoW lol

Depraved

Dreugui wrote: »

Strevi wrote: »

They asked for feedback some time ago.
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/49279/dev-discussion-30-crafting/p1

I am curious how the crafting will end up.

Oh, I wasn't here at the time. thank's

Depraved wrote: »

all we know is that crafting will be hard and take a long time.

But, taking time and beeing repetitive are too separate things. It dosn't matter to me if it take time, the important is : it's not the same thing again and again and again ( like new world or ESO here you just make cercle to farm the same ressource to have enough to craft 150 weapon to lv up your crafting skill )

if it takes a long time, it won't be (too) repetitive. if it takes a week to craft 1 weapon, you can't expect people to craft 150 weapons...

Gui10

Dreugui wrote: »

and you what do you think ? do you like grinding for hours ? or should there be an alternative ?

The interesting questions for me are:
- Will processing and crafting take up the same amount of time/effort as gathering?

And I think the answer is yes. They have said that artisan professions wont be a simple "click to make 1/10/x amount" and then wait idle while your character makes them.

I do hope there are "some" automation mechanics such as having a farm hand help you reap your crops on your freehold for example.

But I also think it should be fair towards gatherers, wh owill have to physically go around to look for nodes and trees all day. It might not end up being fair and hopefully that will make primary goods more valuable.

As for time in crafting, I dont mind at all even if it takes a million years (like in Runescape) as long as it's meaningful. I am OK with it taking a lot of time. I do not want it to be instant like in New World, that just ruins crafting totally. But I also do think there should be more than just grinding for leveling up, such as quest, or specific crafting tools, methods, mini-games, "challenges", etc.

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