Threat is a new concept to me. How does this work.

LeoTheElder

I am entreated by the threat mitigation thread, but I don't want to interrupt it asking for a newbie definition and explanation. In ESO I always DPS'd. With AoC I am considering a tank/crafter toon as my first effort. I am familiar with taunt ops. I've never heard of threat before. Please, some background. And Thanx.

Songcaller

The a1 tank had threat on most attacks rather than a taunt. Threat also exists in hidden tables - it's how some players pull a mob off a tank.

Generally, you want decent threat production to make fights a challenge but you also don't want constant threat generation by a tank because it offers less risk overall and usually lacks a swift intervention in turbulent times.

Edit: also, aggro swapping is based around threat levels. You often need a threat spike to swap aggro so a mob switches between two tanks and maintains the chosen position.

I've tanked a lot but not sure if I will in Ashes. I don't think a tank would make a good bounty hunter.

Azherae

LeoTheElder wrote: »

I am entreated by the threat mitigation thread, but I don't want to interrupt it asking for a newbie definition and explanation. In ESO I always DPS'd. With AoC I am considering a tank/crafter toon as my first effort. I am familiar with taunt ops. I've never heard of threat before. Please, some background. And Thanx.

It's a number generated when you take an action so that the mob decides if to hit you or not. In some games, if the mob hits you, it goes back down too.

So if you are DPSing, imagine that for every point of damage you do, you get 1 point of threat (some call it 'hate')

And your Tank, doing less DPS than you, also has other abilities that allow them to instantly get an amount that is HIGHER than even your DPS (in some games it sets it higher than you, in other games it gives them like... let's say you do 400 DPS, their ability gives them like 6000 of this number), so the enemy continues to attack the Tank.

If the Tank stops using that ability, your number will become higher, and the mob will turn and hit you. Depending on how hard it hits you, your number will go down.

If it drops below the Tank's number again (even without them doing ANYTHING, in most games) the mob will turn back to hit the tank more.

Some games do this in easier or more difficult ways (for example, the mob doesn't turn again just from your number dropping, someone else's number which is above yours has to go up at least a TINY bit, which can make Tanking more interesting/harder in a few situations).

Hope that helps.

LeoTheElder

Is threat limited to mobs or is it part of all combat situations? Is it a part of non-combat situations ie: interactions with NPCs?

Azherae

LeoTheElder wrote: »

Is threat limited to mobs or is it part of all combat situations? Is it a part of non-combat situations ie: interactions with NPCs?

It is generally only for mobs being engaged, but some games allow you to attack NPCs, some fight back, some do not.

One complex implementation is that if you hit NPCs in one game I know and generate threat, they move AWAY from you based on how much you have, and there's different ways to do that.

In some games it ticks down over time. In one I play it fills up two SEPARATE numbers, one which ticks down, one which only goes down when you get hit.

Games can implement it in very complex ways, but generally if you cannot HURT an NPC, they are not paying attention to your threat meter. It's not impossible though. It is a number that can be used in many creative ways by developers. Just USUALLY isn't. Just the mob you have damaged, or 'The Mob gained threat relative to me because I healed/supported someone who was damaging it'.

Songcaller

No. And it doesn't work in pvp usually. Sometimes you will have threat for pve and hatred for pvp, however, ashes is pvx snd I hope the tanks can function in both pve and pvp.

LeoTheElder

Thanx All. That helps. I never liked PvP. (Squeshy old DPS me.) My current 'plan' is to build a traditional dungeon group style tank. (And crafter.) I'll add threat to the things I need to think about.

Azherae

LeoTheElder wrote: »

Thanx All. That helps. I never liked PvP. (Squeshy old DPS me.) My current 'plan' is to build a traditional dungeon group style tank. (And crafter.) I'll add threat to the things I need to think about.

Glad if it helped. Generally all you need to know if you are unfamiliar with it in games is to look out for gear that increases it by some percentage when you do things. The rest is testing. Generally if you want to be a traditional dungeon style tank, you won't even need that type of gear until you get to bossfights, so you'll definitely have time to ease into understanding it more.

Songcaller

Crafters will be most welcome. I'm not certain you can avoid pvp and a pve focused tank would be bad for pvp. The corruption system and any friends, allies or guild mates will be beneficial.

Ludullu

And as a small additional point, Lineage 2 used the "threat" abilities from a tank to force the enemy player's targeting onto the tank, so the usually pve abilities were useful in pvp too. I dunno if Intrepid would try that, but it's been done before and by a game that inspired quite a few mechanics in Ashes, so there's a small chance.

Songcaller

NiKr wrote: »

And as a small additional point, Lineage 2 used the "threat" abilities from a tank to force the enemy player's targeting onto the tank, so the usually pve abilities were useful in pvp too. I dunno if Intrepid would try that, but it's been done before and by a game that inspired quite a few mechanics in Ashes, so there's a small chance.

We tried to get it added, but there was backlash about player autonomy. Many people in the old tank thread didn't want to be forced to hit the tank.

Ludullu

Neurath wrote: »

We tried to get it added, but there was backlash about player autonomy. Many people in the old tank thread didn't want to be forced to hit the tank.

God damn weaklings

Veeshan

threat just makes thing want to kill you over other people, each attack generate x threat generaly 100dmg = 100 threat for most attacks priority, Tank classes tend to have ways to manipulate theat they generate to keep mobs on them instead of dps which does more dmg, this can be either through attacks that generate additional threat so sunder armor could be a threat gen attack that generates 5times the amount of threat per dmg it deals, or a stright up skill like taunt that gives a huge boost on threat table for a duration or perma but doesnt do dmg.

imo, taunt in pvp should debuff players who hit anyone but the person who taunts them imo aswell as a side note so it has effect in pvp.

Veeshan

Neurath wrote: »

NiKr wrote: »

And as a small additional point, Lineage 2 used the "threat" abilities from a tank to force the enemy player's targeting onto the tank, so the usually pve abilities were useful in pvp too. I dunno if Intrepid would try that, but it's been done before and by a game that inspired quite a few mechanics in Ashes, so there's a small chance.

We tried to get it added, but there was backlash about player autonomy. Many people in the old tank thread didn't want to be forced to hit the tank.

they should be a debuff where a taunted player does 50% less dmg unless they hit the person who taunted them for the duration. Log horizon (anime) also had a taunt ability that basicly if you hit anyone but the person that taunted you the player would take magical dmg kinda like thorn effect which i think also works for AoC. Just gotta make sure that players can see who taunted them so they can swap targets if they dont want the punishment of the debuff. (I would just make it a debuff for both players the taunter gets debuff and the taunted gets a debuff that does X unless there hitting somone with the taunter debuff makes it easier than linking 2 debuff togther but does mean the attacker can hit anyone who taunted somone recently but i think thats fine for simplicity sakes)
Another way for tab target games is to have it automatically swap taunted player target to the person who taunted them, they can swap back instantly however some attacks will hit the tank over desired target if there not paying attention doesnt realy work in action combat though so the debuff option would be best

Songcaller

Yeah we mentioned the howling taunt in the old thread too. Not sure what the plans are but there's a new tank mitigation thread so hopefully it's been stated again.

Veeshan

I kinda wanna see a slight shift in how tanks function tbh a little in the game, i feel they should do more dmg but has less survivability in pvp regards however still be able to tank pve.
This means either tone down pve dmg which would make dps take less dmg however which could mean u could tank with dps with above adverage heals since less dmg output from the mobs but my prefered option is to have a passive to have tank rolls take less dmg from group mobs

Tanks in MMO tend to be unkillable in pvp due to have so much stacked defence and either have to good dmg or just plain annoying :P

personaly would like to see tank build have higher dmg (increase mobs hp slightly to accommodate there higher dmg output) but be slightly less tanky in regards to PvP side of things using a passive that reduces PvE group mobs dmg to balance there tankiness in pve content.
This would also make tanks a little more enjoyable to solo level since they can kill mobs faster rather than taking a minute to kill a mob :P

Depraved

LeoTheElder wrote: »

I am entreated by the threat mitigation thread, but I don't want to interrupt it asking for a newbie definition and explanation. In ESO I always DPS'd. With AoC I am considering a tank/crafter toon as my first effort. I am familiar with taunt ops. I've never heard of threat before. Please, some background. And Thanx.

they are just different flavors of the same thing. you make enemies hit you, and not someone else