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Free pass on Corruption

VarkunVarkun Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
If you knew that someone had just killed an obvious bot would you give them a pass, or chance to work off their corruption rather than outright killing them?

Recently returned to New World and their new start servers with some guild mates to kill time but the sheer number of bots really does put a dampener on the whole experience. Has it just become the norm with some people to just set up bots now days?
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Close your eyes spread your arms and always trust your cape.
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Comments

  • NeurathNeurath Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I probably wouldn't give a free pass if someone kills a bot unless I'm aware the bot was a bot to begin with. Unless a bot gives some sort of status effect for being killed i would imagine there would be no real way to know if a bot has been killed.

    Anyone can claim to have killed a bot.
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I'll give someone a pass if they tell me the name of the bot.

    That's pretty simple to me.

    "Who did you kill?" is going to be a common question in my node, I feel.

    I'm not saying that I will 'try to kill them if I don't know that bot'. I'm not even going to fight them if I know that's NOT a bot and they did it anyway, I'll just tell them that it wasn't a bot.

    So it's likely that at least from me, most Corrupted players around me, particularly my Node Citizens, will just get a free pass. I'm not likely to be engaging Corrupted players non-verbally based on the fact that they're red.
    If they ignore and don't answer, depending on where they are, we might attack them.

    After all, they might be a bot!
    Sorry, my native language is Erlang.
    
  • NiKrNiKr Member
    Yeah, I'd most likely give a pass if the PK tells me they killed a bot. I'd ask where and who, so that I can go check if the bot returns (cause I'd assume he has a script to farm the same place). I would also probably immediately PM the given name to doublecheck. If there's no response within a few minutes (the length would depend on the corruption balancing) - I'd probably let the PKer go and would then check the location of the supposed bot.

    If it's not there - there's a somewhat high chance that it was just an afk player. At which point I'd note down the PKer's name and citizenship (dearly hope we can see which node someone belongs to) and if the PKer is not from my node - I'll be killing them immediately if they ever go red again. If they are from my node, I'll try PMing the victim later and asking them what their logs say, to try and figure out what happened.

    In other words, I'd try to solve the social situation rather than just killing the red.
  • They should add a pop up when a green player is killed (do you wont to forgive the killer) yes/no, if no u get corruption, if message is ignored or they hit yes u dont get corruption on the kill.

    just makes it a little harder for bots to give corruption to players well some thing slighty more to code on the bot side of things :p
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Veeshan wrote: »
    They should add a pop up when a green player is killed (do you wont to forgive the killer) yes/no, if no u get corruption, if message is ignored or they hit yes u dont get corruption on the kill.

    just makes it a little harder for bots to give corruption to players well some thing slighty more to code on the bot side of things :p

    Yes but it's like 2 lines of code...
    Sorry, my native language is Erlang.
    
  • novercalisnovercalis Member, Founder, Kickstarter
    edited January 9
    nope - free loot is free loot and all your loot belongs to us.
    {UPK} United Player Killer - All your loot belongs to us.
  • tautautautau Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Corrupt players will frequently claim to have killed a bot, so if you PM them they will make that claim then logout or run away before you can attempt to confirm the truth (which will not be easy to do). I will generally kill the corrupt player asap unless I know them personally. If, somehow, they prove to have killed a bot, the I can always return the gear they drop.

    If someone goes red, they do so at their peril.

    PS If you want to kill a bot, drop a train on them.
  • novercalisnovercalis Member, Founder, Kickstarter
    tautau wrote: »
    Corrupt players will frequently claim to have killed a bot, so if you PM them they will make that claim then logout or run away before you can attempt to confirm the truth (which will not be easy to do). I will generally kill the corrupt player asap unless I know them personally. If, somehow, they prove to have killed a bot, the I can always return the gear they drop.

    If someone goes red, they do so at their peril.

    PS If you want to kill a bot, drop a train on them.

    Kill first, Ask question later motto :)
    {UPK} United Player Killer - All your loot belongs to us.
  • StreviStrevi Member
    edited January 9
    tautau wrote: »
    Corrupt players will frequently claim to have killed a bot, so if you PM them they will make that claim then logout or run away before you can attempt to confirm the truth (which will not be easy to do). I will generally kill the corrupt player asap unless I know them personally. If, somehow, they prove to have killed a bot, the I can always return the gear they drop.

    If someone goes red, they do so at their peril.

    PS If you want to kill a bot, drop a train on them.

    <3 PS

    That means trains must be possible
    September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member
    edited January 9
    If you are red no matter what the reason you are loot to me are as far as I'm concerned. No one gets a free pass unless they are a guildy or friend.
  • novercalisnovercalis Member, Founder, Kickstarter
    Strevi wrote: »
    tautau wrote: »
    Corrupt players will frequently claim to have killed a bot, so if you PM them they will make that claim then logout or run away before you can attempt to confirm the truth (which will not be easy to do). I will generally kill the corrupt player asap unless I know them personally. If, somehow, they prove to have killed a bot, the I can always return the gear they drop.

    If someone goes red, they do so at their peril.

    PS If you want to kill a bot, drop a train on them.

    <3 PS

    That means trains must be possible

    that means - griefing / potential player harassment - breaking Terms of Service/Rules in the event it wasnt a bot. (Hell even if it was a bot - and they were on their pc, those fuckers can retaliate with a report)
    {UPK} United Player Killer - All your loot belongs to us.
  • tautautautau Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Excuse me if I am misunderstanding something, but how could dropping a train be considered a ToS infraction?

    I can see that if one drops train on a certain player "...in a negative and harrassing and repetitive manner" (see below) that it could be considered griefing, so perhaps this IS something that we will have clarified in the future. Note, however, in the quote the use of 'and' twice, which implies that doing it to the same player again and again might be different from just doing it once or twice.

    Can you all help interpret that, do I have it wrong?

    Looking at the wiki regarding griefing, we are told:

    "Griefing in Ashes of Creation is defined as impacting another player's gameplay in a negative and harassing and repetitive manner. It is something that is outside of the expectation of the gameplay behavior that is communicated in the design philosophy.[1]

    When we think about 'what is griefing?' Griefing isn't necessarily the realization of risk. Risk is a healthy thing. Risk makes us value reward. Without risk we would not pursue certain achievements, because anybody could achieve them. Risk makes us have a sense of thrill, or have some sense of anxiety; and those are all emotional responses that get elicited when risk is present. So, risk isn't a bad thing. We like risk, not just in PvP but in PvE as well: when you can't always predict the environment or encounter you are part of, risk is something like 'Ah, I've never seen this boss do that before.' or these adds came at an ill-placed time, there's a trap here that I didn't experience before. There's a lot of elements that risk introduces that keep gameplay less stale; that keep it more dynamic; that introduce environments where the unexpected can occur. That is a good thing. Now the question is, when risk becomes something that doesn't stop other players from impacting your gameplay in a negative and harassing and repetitive manner. The motivation to do that action is less about their personal advancement and more about impacting your gameplay, because when they elicit the response of anger or rage from the player, they feel a sense of accomplishment. That in my opinion is what griefing is. It is outside of the expectation of the gameplay behavior that is communicated in the design philosophy.[1] – Steven Sharif

    Players that work outside of the game design to grief or harass other players are actionable by customer services.[1]

    Referenced by
    2022-10-28 Livestream
    Addons
    Ashes of Creation
    Auction house
    Banking
    Buying and selling
    Corruption
    Crafting
    Currency
    Economy
    Escrow system
    Factions
    Game design
    Game masters
    Hunting grounds
    Inspiration
    Multi-boxing
    Open-world PvP
    Player businesses
    Player corruption
    Player death
    Player flagging
    Player stalls
    Player to player trading
    PvP
    PvP background
    PvX
    Removing corruption
    Safe zones
    Security systems
    Theft
    Trade agreements"
  • NeurathNeurath Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    If the game design allows trains then there's no issue about trains.
  • novercalisnovercalis Member, Founder, Kickstarter
    you answered it on the post

    outside of the expectation of the gameplay behavior that is communicated in the design philosophy

    highly unlike they designed NPC mobs for us to kill to be used to circumvent pvp/pk designs
    {UPK} United Player Killer - All your loot belongs to us.
  • NeurathNeurath Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    There will be npc guards to circumvent the pk system though. I doubt a bot would even aggro a train if a train was sent for pain.
  • Varkun wrote: »
    If you knew that someone had just killed an obvious bot would you give them a pass, or chance to work off their corruption rather than outright killing them?

    Recently returned to New World and their new start servers with some guild mates to kill time but the sheer number of bots really does put a dampener on the whole experience. Has it just become the norm with some people to just set up bots now days?

    depends on my mood. but really if you gonna pk a bot, do it with an alt, or wear crappy gear
  • TyranthraxusTyranthraxus Member
    edited January 10
    Maybe a radial option, or a /reportBot command could be in-order?

    Three such strikes/acknowledgement by an in-game CSR could then render such a Bot a Corruption-less kill.... Though I am wary of reporting-abuses, as New World certainly displayed as a weakness.



  • hleVhleV Member
    No. Even if reds couldn't drop gear, I wouldn't give them a free pass any moreso than to a purple player, because I just like to PvP. It'd all come down to whether I believe I can win: level/class difference, whether there's extra players around, etc..

    The system blindly punishes any PK regardless of PK reason, but ignores any other kind of griefing. It's the system's fault, I'm not about to play a detective.
  • All these things people call griefing I consider normal play rules.
    September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
  • I actually want to create a bot killing alliance on my server for players alts when they want to kill time and clean up the server
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  • Don't see bots running caravans.
    If they sell locally, those nodes might have to deal with them.
    Bots without citizenship might not be efficient.
    September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Strevi wrote: »
    Don't see bots running caravans.
    If they sell locally, those nodes might have to deal with them.
    Bots without citizenship might not be efficient.

    Why wouldn't bots run caravans though?

    That's almost exactly the sort of thing one would want to bot.
    Sorry, my native language is Erlang.
    
  • Nope Red = Dead, if I see a random corrupted I think I can take and they aren't a member of my guild/alliance I'd likely attack without asking them why they went red.
    2edh26ackfsa.png
    The Wolves of Verra
    are recruiting: https://discord.gg/Rt8G3sNYac
  • Azherae wrote: »
    Strevi wrote: »
    Don't see bots running caravans.
    If they sell locally, those nodes might have to deal with them.
    Bots without citizenship might not be efficient.

    Why wouldn't bots run caravans though?

    That's almost exactly the sort of thing one would want to bot.

    The bots should then be able to fight and defend it against players.
    You say they can PvP too and defeat the players? If they can, then they can do anything and they would prefer fighting NPCs and take advantage of corruption protection.
    September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Strevi wrote: »
    Azherae wrote: »
    Strevi wrote: »
    Don't see bots running caravans.
    If they sell locally, those nodes might have to deal with them.
    Bots without citizenship might not be efficient.

    Why wouldn't bots run caravans though?

    That's almost exactly the sort of thing one would want to bot.

    The bots should then be able to fight and defend it against players.
    You say they can PvP too and defeat the players? If they can, then they can do anything and they would prefer fighting NPCs and take advantage of corruption protection.

    Hm... Not exactly.

    A bot is more effective when it has specific goals, and is hard to detect.

    Caravans are one of the easier targetable goals for a bot that uses the methods I know. Particularly if it's a tank, healer or support class. The bot wouldn't run the caravan by itself. It would be the backup, part of the defense line for the DPS which would PROBABLY be used by players.

    But Ashes is at least partially a Tab Target game, meaning that it's easy to make HealBots, and PvP HealBots are technically easier than PvE HealBots for the purposes related to Caravan running.

    Detectability is a weird question, but I wouldn't bet on them being easily detected either.
    Sorry, my native language is Erlang.
    
  • Azherae wrote: »
    Strevi wrote: »
    Azherae wrote: »
    Strevi wrote: »
    Don't see bots running caravans.
    If they sell locally, those nodes might have to deal with them.
    Bots without citizenship might not be efficient.

    Why wouldn't bots run caravans though?

    That's almost exactly the sort of thing one would want to bot.

    The bots should then be able to fight and defend it against players.
    You say they can PvP too and defeat the players? If they can, then they can do anything and they would prefer fighting NPCs and take advantage of corruption protection.

    Hm... Not exactly.

    A bot is more effective when it has specific goals, and is hard to detect.

    Caravans are one of the easier targetable goals for a bot that uses the methods I know. Particularly if it's a tank, healer or support class. The bot wouldn't run the caravan by itself. It would be the backup, part of the defense line for the DPS which would PROBABLY be used by players.

    But Ashes is at least partially a Tab Target game, meaning that it's easy to make HealBots, and PvP HealBots are technically easier than PvE HealBots for the purposes related to Caravan running.

    Detectability is a weird question, but I wouldn't bet on them being easily detected either.

    Bot hunters will enjoy finding them.
    AoC will want to create micro communities in the 65 active nodes. If the balance will be done properly and players will spread, they'll end up knowing each-other and observing the flow of goods through the trade routes. The most successful caravan drivers will be known. Those who use the bots will have to play with those characters and maintain the illusion of being always real players.

    For some reason the thought that some players will use automated healers doesn't trigger any emotions for me. Just a bit of sadness thinking that as healers we role-play a bot and we like that, and the bot doesn't care.
    September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
  • Varkun wrote: »
    If you knew that someone had just killed an obvious bot would you give them a pass, or chance to work off their corruption rather than outright killing them?

    Recently returned to New World and their new start servers with some guild mates to kill time but the sheer number of bots really does put a dampener on the whole experience. Has it just become the norm with some people to just set up bots now days?

    Maybe there will be more corrupted players than we think.
    Wiki states

    There are also reasons to engage in open world PvP, which is subject to the player flagging and corruption system.[16][19]:
    - Contesting open-world dungeons or raids.[16]
    - Contesting scarce resources and hunting grounds.[19][19]

    Corruption should not be balanced to prevent the contesting of these dungeons and rare resources.
    September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
  • Gui10Gui10 Member
    No pass. The bot might be working for the pker.
  • novercalisnovercalis Member, Founder, Kickstarter
    laughable.

    Bots are easily noticeable when performing pve/pvp actions.

    From EQ to NW - they move in sync, attack sync etc. One of the bots biggest weakness is it's movements. Several games allows character heads to move as to which way your looking - if this is in AoC that is another way to detect a bot who always has a perfect head position. Lastly in caravan - there's gonna be communication. Too many variables that can't be written in code to deal with.
    {UPK} United Player Killer - All your loot belongs to us.
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    novercalis wrote: »
    laughable.

    Bots are easily noticeable when performing pve/pvp actions.

    From EQ to NW - they move in sync, attack sync etc. One of the bots biggest weakness is it's movements. Several games allows character heads to move as to which way your looking - if this is in AoC that is another way to detect a bot who always has a perfect head position. Lastly in caravan - there's gonna be communication. Too many variables that can't be written in code to deal with.

    Or, and hear me out...

    You don't notice bots that are hard to distinguish from people because they are hard to distinguish from people.
    Sorry, my native language is Erlang.
    
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