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Are you a player who gives up easily or are you a player who improves even with a lot of difficultie
MybroViajero
Member
Yesterday playing a wipe in Rust with my friends I understood that it is not the game's problem but the player's problem at the time to endure the difficulties to continue playing.
My friends invited two more people, 21 years old and 32 years old, to summarize what happened, the 32 year old player kept complaining about his PvP level and although he had 3k hours of experience he could not make important plays or win PvP, he REEEEEEE-rage-quit-ALT-f4 and we never heard from him again.
Until now I do not understand his rage-quit, it was early game, we were vs zergs of 10+ people and we were 5, it was obvious that it would be difficult but perseverance and effort always pays off. Risk x Reward
On the other hand the 21 year old player had an experience of 800 hours but was more calm, he was more dedicated to PvE but when he was needed in PvP he was there to support and although he didn't have much experience he tried to improve despite the difficulties.
The game can be less or more difficult but I think it does not depend on the game the mental state of the player to try to continue despite the difficulties or to find the fun in the game , because let's be honest, the game can be less or more difficult but if a person is not willing to make an effort then even if the game has a minimum of difficulty that person will not want to play it anymore.
Edit: This could be used as an analogy considering that AoC has a lot of RISK X REWARD influence.
Do you think that the current mindset of MMORGPS players could withstand difficulties?
Keep in mind that the 21 year old player tried despite the difficulties because my friends and I were patient teaching him positioning and other things, maybe if we hadn't been so eager to teach him he wouldn't have continued playing.
I believe that players who are not used to withstand difficulties are not unable to do so, but that there are players who are not taught to do so.
Which side are you on?
Do you need to be taught? or are you experienced enough to teach but can't find someone worthy?
My friends invited two more people, 21 years old and 32 years old, to summarize what happened, the 32 year old player kept complaining about his PvP level and although he had 3k hours of experience he could not make important plays or win PvP, he REEEEEEE-rage-quit-ALT-f4 and we never heard from him again.
Until now I do not understand his rage-quit, it was early game, we were vs zergs of 10+ people and we were 5, it was obvious that it would be difficult but perseverance and effort always pays off. Risk x Reward
On the other hand the 21 year old player had an experience of 800 hours but was more calm, he was more dedicated to PvE but when he was needed in PvP he was there to support and although he didn't have much experience he tried to improve despite the difficulties.
The game can be less or more difficult but I think it does not depend on the game the mental state of the player to try to continue despite the difficulties or to find the fun in the game , because let's be honest, the game can be less or more difficult but if a person is not willing to make an effort then even if the game has a minimum of difficulty that person will not want to play it anymore.
Edit: This could be used as an analogy considering that AoC has a lot of RISK X REWARD influence.
Do you think that the current mindset of MMORGPS players could withstand difficulties?
Keep in mind that the 21 year old player tried despite the difficulties because my friends and I were patient teaching him positioning and other things, maybe if we hadn't been so eager to teach him he wouldn't have continued playing.
I believe that players who are not used to withstand difficulties are not unable to do so, but that there are players who are not taught to do so.
Which side are you on?
Do you need to be taught? or are you experienced enough to teach but can't find someone worthy?
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Comments
We also have healers sometimes and we still fight outnumbered. It can be difficult to keep the healers alive against a zerg but we only take experienced healers. We had a problem where our levelling healers were ganged and forced to rage quit. Only the hardest healers ever reached our open world pvp premades.
So, since your analogy started with Rust, just in case, I ask.
Are you referring to games like Rust, or MMORPGs like Ashes?
Analogy for AoC and MMORPGS , I think the mentality of the player is generalized and although the games are different there are players more likely to go ahead despite the difficulties than others.
Edit : but that happens because there are players who need to be taught by players who are used to endure difficulties.
If I and my friends were not patient with the 800 hour player teaching him positioning and other things, then he might not have continued playing.
Right... so you think like that.
I'll leave this to someone else then.
My mentality isn't generalized so I don't fit your model.
I was asked to give some of my thoughts on this:
My first reaction to you is that "I will give up a fight in Predecessor somewhat more easily if I don't have a build, analyst or am facing a hard counter team that makes 'learning the match up by losing impossible or at least too hard for me personally to see at the time' whereas there are a lot of match ups and team comps I'm willing to keep pushing through in order to learn from the failure. This is the difference in the same GAME not even a different GENRE."
My second reaction to you is that "I definitely am more willing to fight to the end in a game where a comeback is either more possible or if failure rewards me with information in some way. Eg I will press on far far more in fighting games than I will in say, an ED High Conflict zone with enemy commanders that counter my build."
My third response to you is that "In an mmo there are bosses I'm willing to repeat within my personal parameters, but others I will seek the 'easiest path to victory' due to it either not being fun for my character or something about the encounter design or players in the area being random'
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yhr9WpjaDzw
I also hate playing odds that are out of my control. One of my least favorite things about games who have "Easy, normal, hard, insane" is that difficulty is usually turned up by making the enemies damage through the roof. Personally I loathe this kind of tactic and as a result rarely play games on insane difficulty. Having to play mechanically well is different then having to game the game to win because they made you instantly die the moment you see an enemy.
I will also add that when I play with friends I typically find I am enjoying myself before finding out that my friend actually hates the game because of a simple QOL issue they perceived that I had viewed as a game mechanic.
So it depends on the game, throw a bunch of 1 shot mechanics where I am supposed to play in a linear manner the entire time, boring. Give me a game where my ability to adapt to the situation that is also adapting and will thus determine my ability to succeed, now that is fun, and that's also why I love PVP, both sides adapt constantly.
Depends on what you're referring to.
Pvp-wise, no. I fight until my last peon is dead. I always found it so irritating when someone would rage quit early...like in Super Smash Brothers just as an example--would reset the match if they died early once...I'm like, come on man, anything can happen later.
Pve-wise, no. my guild in WoW wiped for hours...for weeks before we finally downed some bosses.
That being said, if the game has shitty or complex controls / mechanics that I don't enjoy then I am more likely to quit because it's poorly designed and my enjoyment isn't overcome by the complexity.
The latest example of this is Genshin's Spiral Abyss where I'll try to force my current build for several hours before giving up and going with a more OP build, if I see that my current one just won't work with my current skill lvl.
I like it when there are difficulties in a game that come with depth, dimension. Mountains to climb so to speak, efficacy and mastery are important to me. The "reward" of efficacy and mastery is the continuous struggle and journey.
I'm trying to make the perfect blade in my mind and I will fold it as many times as needed till it's perfect.
Will some players find Ashes too hard compared to other mmorpgs? Probably. Just the fact that Ashes has actual consequences for dying will be a brick wall to some people, but that's ok. Ashes isn't made for everyone.
I guess this does make me want to add a caveat, I am a sweaty tryhard anytime I am playing with mechanics, but sometimes I REALLY enjoy just chopping some trees and no I don't want to be challenged then.
Very much in agreement, I don't want to generalize in terms of fun since everyone has fun in different ways, that's totally clear.
But the point itself is that I think that for medium/high difficulty games there should be systems or things that help newer players to adapt and learn, because as I put in the example of the 21 year old player, if my friends and I had not spent time teaching him PvP things he probably would not have continued playing.
I think that tends to happen a lot in these difficult games and that are of comparison and probably happen in AoC so I think a great need to promote mentoring systems, teaching or encouraging experienced players to teach novice players.
I imagine very valuable rewards for having teachers in their profession , pvp , pve , exploration or many other things teaching newbies , the more confirmed newbies the teacher teaches and guarantees a good teaching then those rewards will be better.
If there's one thing I've learned over the years it's that gamers will always find a way to do things that are supposed to be impossible. The EQ2 devs tried making an "unbeatable" boss (Kerafyrm the Sleeper) and yet the players killed it. Sure it took them hours of non-stop fighting to do it, but they did it.
I've said this in other threads but I don't believe "mentoring" systems are much good. Most of the "mentors" only care about the rewards rather than actually helping people, and this causes problems for the newbies.
No, the way you help players get better at the game is have well thought out tutorials, the ability to view gameplay information at any time within the game (NOT by forcing the players to alt-tab out to visit a community wiki page on the subject) and, most importantly, by forcing the players to regularly use their abilities while levelling.
This last point is what most mmorpgs fail at the most. You can get to max level without much difficulty just by spamming a couple buttons. Hell, in the case of BDO, I got to max level just by spamming left click, never once using or even reading what any of my abilities did. Is it any wonder then that players get to max level not having a clue how to play the game and hit a brick wall when trying to do max level content?
Speaking of that, would you consider interesting that in certain levels, for example from 25 to 26, in order to level up players should have a % of knowledge, professions or mastered things or know certain things like exploration areas, secret ruins or the like?
I think that would be interesting and would make the player not only level up killing mobs but learning new things and knowing the world of Verra.
Absolutely, they just need to ensure that the game is fun level 1-50 and buddies have a way to play together regardless of level. Part of that is the tutorials and well thought out content that teaches at the same time as it is presented.
Those kinds of systems have been tried in the past and they don't really work. Putting arbitrary limits of players like that just results in them resenting the system, and will be more likely to quit than actually do it, or they'll find a way to cheat the system.
Pokemon Scarlet/Violet had something like that, where you had to go around talking to people in town to get information to complete an objective, so what did I do? A 30 second google search for the answer because I couldn't be bothered running around talking to random NPCs for half an hour.
The way you test players effectively is through normal gameplay. Sekiro does this very well, by first introducing you to the counter mechanic, then regularly providing enemies that require you to use the counter on, until finally you reach the bosses that physically cannot be beaten unless you do the counter mechanic very well.
Players are more likely to respond positively to this because it closely relates to something they want (beating the bosses) and they can see how learning the skill directly helps them with that goal.
Very hard to come up with a system that allows a level 50 and a level 1 to play together, especially in a game with always-on world PvP like Ashes.
True but you don't really need it to be a level 50, a level 35 and a level 1 playing together is much easier to create since both will receive exp and have that base incentive regardless of where you farm.