AI Intelligence and Centering Bosses

Solvryn

After leaving the Office Hours with a good feeling, we had started the discussion on mob AI and its intelligence.

So I think it's important to cover the other half of threat and that's with AI.

I think it is important for AI to have intelligence and create dynamic encounters to where no encounter is choreographed and every encounter is a unique experience.

The question came up, how do the devs achieve intelligent and meaningful AI?

If its possible to code, have the boss coded to react and respond to the fight and if possible, learn to a degree.

Galaturc

Don't know about AI...
But, alternatively... Monster coins. Allow players to control mobs and bosses (in addition to the already existing node-events). Give them a set of skills and let them devise strategies to defend loot and treasure from parties and raids. To be able to play a boss, the players have to accumulate a lot of monster coins, in return, players receive rare skins, house decoration items, and/or one-time use cosmetic items such as fireworks or spawning rare temporary minion pets with no impact on combat, etc.

My only concern is, how do you effectively deter players from intentionally dying to a group of players they matched with, for cheating their way to a fast and easy victory? Concealing identities of players on both ends... what else? Perhaps, match-making between players forming a party or raid in one server paired against a player using monster coins to take control of a boss from another server? To further conceal anonymity, let the boss be only able to see the players in their regular armor and weapons with no skins.

Solvryn

Galaturc wrote: »

Don't know about AI...
But, alternatively... Monster coins. Allow players to control mobs and bosses (in addition to the already existing node-events). Give them a set of skills and let them devise strategies to defend loot and treasure from parties and raids. To be able to play a boss, the players have to accumulate a lot of monster coins, in return, players receive rare skins, house decoration items, and/or one-time use cosmetic items such as fireworks or spawning rare temporary minion pets with no impact on combat, etc.

My only concern is, how do you effectively deter players from intentionally dying to a group of players they matched with, for cheating their way to a fast and easy victory? Concealing identities of players on both ends... what else? Perhaps, match-making between players forming a party or raid in one server paired against a player using monster coins to take control of a boss from another server? To further conceal anonymity, let the boss be only able to see the players in their regular armor and weapons with no skins.

Monster coins would an interesting thread in itself. I'm not really sold on the idea of player controlled mobs.

chucksticks

I'd like to fight something that feels alive and keeps me guessing what it's next move is as if we're trying to outwit each other. Not all mobs/enemies need this AI but maybe add rare mutations. Also, the smarter mobs should be allowed to learn somehow from surviving attempted player assaults.

Noaani

The problem with using AI for encounters is that so far, no one has managed to teach an AI to measure fun.

An AI can measure how often it wins, but that isn't the point of encounters in MMO's. The point is for players to have fun.

It would be dead easy to have AI controlled encounters if the object was for encounters to be tediously difficult, and have everyone quit the game as a result. Any other objective though, and AI just isn't up to the task yet.

Galaturc wrote: »

Don't know about AI...
But, alternatively... Monster coins. Allow players to control mobs and bosses (in addition to the already existing node-events). Give them a set of skills and let them devise strategies to defend loot and treasure from parties and raids. To be able to play a boss, the players have to accumulate a lot of monster coins, in return, players receive rare skins, house decoration items, and/or one-time use cosmetic items such as fireworks or spawning rare temporary minion pets with no impact on combat, etc.

My only concern is, how do you effectively deter players from intentionally dying to a group of players they matched with, for cheating their way to a fast and easy victory? Concealing identities of players on both ends... what else? Perhaps, match-making between players forming a party or raid in one server paired against a player using monster coins to take control of a boss from another server? To further conceal anonymity, let the boss be only able to see the players in their regular armor and weapons with no skins.

There are a few points to make in regards to this. Monsters controlled in such events have their drop table turned off, and players can only control monsters within specific events that target nodes.

So, there is never a fight over loot with monster coins, the most players can really do to game the system is to have someone from a different node take over the monster and offer up no real challenge to those defending the node against said event.

Solvryn

Noaani wrote: »

The problem with using AI for encounters is that so far, no one has managed to teach an AI to measure fun.

An AI can measure how often it wins, but that isn't the point of encounters in MMO's. The point is for players to have fun.

It would be dead easy to have AI controlled encounters if the object was for encounters to be tediously difficult, and have everyone quit the game as a result. Any other objective though, and AI just isn't up to the task yet.

I suppose it would have been better to preface the conversation with what was said in Office Hours a little clearer, but AI has a large part to do with having good encounters.