NPC retreat invulnerable mode

peksi

I wish you can make a more realistic way for NPC opponent to retreat than what we saw in the tanking demo. It is a real immersion breaker when NPC goes into retreat mode where nobody can hurt them or stop them and they just return blindly to their positions.

I know it poses challenges to do it more realistically but I am sure there is a way. It works in real world as well.

novercalis

also silly for them to retreat after a few seconds or ~100m

Like, seriously you are invading their turf and they are just gonna let you go and run amok? Nah, I will chase you out until you either:

1) Outside the Keep
2) Outside of the "Elite" Area since there were few more elites outside of the Keep
3) See #2 but an additional 100m to ensure you left my turf and some with your tail tucked between your leg.

Risk/Reward and Action has Consequence. You choose to enter a dangerous area and antagonize those spirit knights - deal with it or leave.

---

Also what is the point of having or introducing XP DEBT if your not gonna threaten us with it. Very Long leash with aggro pull. Create a train of mobs chasing you out with pitchforks!

Songcaller

We had a thread on leash ranges back in the day. I thought the concensus was long leashes or no leashes.

Percimes

It would be nice if there was variations depending of the type of monsters. Both in term of distances before the return/reset is triggered, how it is done, but also behaviours when that point is reached.

Examples.
Spirits haunting an area (as in the tank showcase) could have a short leash and when they reach their limit point, they simply vanish/fade and instantly respawn at their normal haunt, or position.

Intelligent humanoids could chase you until you exit their base or fortress, and then stay there on watch for a long time before returning to their spot. During the time they're on watch they keep you on their aggro list, but they can't leave their defensive position, they pester you with range attack as long as your in sight/range. Their aggro only reset once they return fully to what they were doing before you showed up.

Some predators in the open could chase you as long as you remain in their biome, so good luck fleeing from that big lizard from the middle of the desert.

pyreal

I'm in favor of long leashes.

Short ones cheapens the "Mess around and find out".

Dolyem

The invulnerability on retreat is more of a prevention to exploiting beating things down while they are mid retreat and not dealing damage to anyone.

Also, shorter leashes prevent massive AOE farming. Maybe have it where the lower your health is, the longer/further a mob will chase you. It'd make sense for an enemy to chase down something more hurt instead of something strong and capable. And that would make it harder to kite large groups of enemies to farm.

Gui10

Short leashes. If you are just running andtaging all random mobs, they shouldn't even look at you.

George_Black

We need long or no leash. As things are right now there is no danger. Yet another mmo in which you hop on your mount and you go straight to the point of interest, ignoring all mobs. All encounters become optional and there is no risk of ever dying.

And I dont wanna hear about AoE farming. PvP for it. Or go play eso.

Dolyem

George_Black wrote: »

We need long or no leash. As things are right now there is no danger. Yet another mmo in which you hop on your mount and you go straight to the point of interest, ignoring all mobs. All encounters become optional and there is no risk of ever dying.

And I dont wanna hear about AoE farming. PvP for it. Or go play eso.

Honestly if you're on a mount and get hit while running, you should get dismounted and have a short slow. No running through areas freely at that point.

And sure, PVP for mobs you want, but even if you're alone, you shouldn't be able to pull 20 mobs and AOE them down freely.

George_Black

In a world where I might choose between a safe open world from mobs, and people running mob trains, I'd take the challenging option of being chased by mobs and having to pick a pvp fight with AoE farmers, instead of safely leashing mobs any time there is a chance I might die.

novercalis

Dolyem wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

We need long or no leash. As things are right now there is no danger. Yet another mmo in which you hop on your mount and you go straight to the point of interest, ignoring all mobs. All encounters become optional and there is no risk of ever dying.

And I dont wanna hear about AoE farming. PvP for it. Or go play eso.

Honestly if you're on a mount and get hit while running, you should get dismounted and have a short slow. No running through areas freely at that point.

And sure, PVP for mobs you want, but even if you're alone, you shouldn't be able to pull 20 mobs and AOE them down freely.

Seeing how the livestream, they kept dying from overpull - go ahead and try to aoe them, you're gonna insta die

Ludullu

Could it be programmed for mobs to start using ranged attacks and slow/root-type abilities way more often as soon as they get closer to each other? I'd assume this would deter most people from trying to train mobs.

Most of the time you'd have a party sitting in one place and a runner going around picking up mobs, right? So just program the mobs in such a way where that runner is super likely to die if they pick up more than 3-4 mobs.

The same could apply to mounted runthroughs too. By the time you get far in the dungeon or deep in a farming location - you'll be either super slowed and close to dying from the mobs right around you or you would've died from a root a minute ago.

This would work better in a no-leash environment or at least a "leash across their location"-type of design. The latter would also let people escape super dodgy situations, but not run into the dungeon w/o any danger. Hell, make the mobs linger at the edge of their location for a few minutes and you'll have yourself a pvp tool in the form of a preplanned mob blockade. I think that'd be fun (as long as it's just a few minutes and not a permanent thing that would prevent any normal party from entering the location for hours)

Dolyem

George_Black wrote: »

In a world where I might choose between a safe open world from mobs, and people running mob trains, I'd take the challenging option of being chased by mobs and having to pick a pvp fight with AoE farmers, instead of safely leashing mobs any time there is a chance I might die.

How is my suggestion safe? I already said to extend the chase with the less health you have. And knocking mounts down when running through? You don't need to choose one or the other, why not solve both issues?

Dolyem

novercalis wrote: »

Dolyem wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

We need long or no leash. As things are right now there is no danger. Yet another mmo in which you hop on your mount and you go straight to the point of interest, ignoring all mobs. All encounters become optional and there is no risk of ever dying.

And I dont wanna hear about AoE farming. PvP for it. Or go play eso.

Honestly if you're on a mount and get hit while running, you should get dismounted and have a short slow. No running through areas freely at that point.

And sure, PVP for mobs you want, but even if you're alone, you shouldn't be able to pull 20 mobs and AOE them down freely.

Seeing how the livestream, they kept dying from overpull - go ahead and try to aoe them, you're gonna insta die

I mean, there's plenty of AOE farms where you die in one hit. It's all about outplaying the mobs.

Dolyem

NiKr wrote: »

Could it be programmed for mobs to start using ranged attacks and slow/root-type abilities way more often as soon as they get closer to each other? I'd assume this would deter most people from trying to train mobs.

Most of the time you'd have a party sitting in one place and a runner going around picking up mobs, right? So just program the mobs in such a way where that runner is super likely to die if they pick up more than 3-4 mobs.

The same could apply to mounted runthroughs too. By the time you get far in the dungeon or deep in a farming location - you'll be either super slowed and close to dying from the mobs right around you or you would've died from a root a minute ago.

This would work better in a no-leash environment or at least a "leash across their location"-type of design. The latter would also let people escape super dodgy situations, but not run into the dungeon w/o any danger. Hell, make the mobs linger at the edge of their location for a few minutes and you'll have yourself a pvp tool in the form of a preplanned mob blockade. I think that'd be fun (as long as it's just a few minutes and not a permanent thing that would prevent any normal party from entering the location for hours)

Honestly not a bad design suggestion. Having CC variants in mob packs would be solid deterrents to mass farming if they break up players abilities to consistently evade the groups.

George_Black

Let's not shift the focus to "how to combat aoe farmers".

The problem at hand (AND current design) is that short leash makes it easy to run away from trouble.

This needs to change. When it's corrected we can talk about AoE farming. Many good ideas to fix it. Dont jump the gun.


Two things from this months update need to be addressed by the Devs:
Why the short leash?
Why were the set leggins untradable?

These two go against risk v reward and social gameplay. I see yet another ff14, eso, tera online ez overland mobs that you can disengage from, with ez bind-on-pick up loot.

novercalis

NiKr wrote: »

This would work better in a no-leash environment or at least a "leash across their location"-type of design. The latter would also let people escape super dodgy situations, but not run into the dungeon w/o any danger. Hell, make the mobs linger at the edge of their location for a few minutes and you'll have yourself a pvp tool in the form of a preplanned mob blockade. I think that'd be fun (as long as it's just a few minutes and not a permanent thing that would prevent any normal party from entering the location for hours)

this was a nightmare and loved it. Not necessarily a pvp thing we used in EQ, it was just the result of a zone being pulled to the zone line. We did afterall, had zones that you needed to load into. Not a seamless world, so that provided many funny fucked up scenerios.

One time, I had pulled a train, barely with an inch of my life, I reached the zone line and went through it. Guess what - I popped into the other zone dead lol.

Other times, not knowing there was a massive train, you're auto running and chatting with guild or friend or discord, then you zone in, only to see 20 mobs lingering and utterly destroy you in a blink of an eye.

But this also created soo much camaraderie with players. People would work together to deal with the lingers or wait few minutes before they slowly, and I MEAN SLOWLY walk back to their initial spot. Now the dungeon got reset, and people have to clear everything all over again to get to their camp spot. This is where pvp can come in or contesting camps, as hey - my group wants to take over the king's room, since you messed up and caused a big ol train. We dont give a shit you were there, you lost that room rights when you left the area due to your bad pulls and caused a train. Now we race to the room.

Sengarden

Long leashes are the best solution in my opinion. I want to see enemies willing to defend their entire "designated area", I want to see higher-ranking NPCs being able to call out to NPCs a bit beyond the player's aggro range for assistance unless they're interrupted, etc. If someone thinks they can sneak into a high level area with an established presence of organized and intelligent creatures, aggro one too many without any allies, run back fifty feet and be safe again, they should have another thing coming.

I don't think mounted players should be immediately struck off their mounts, I think that sort of thing should depend on what type of mount you're riding. The mount should have some sort of "fear" meter like Roach in The Witcher 3. Get hit once, generate a bit of slowly degenerating "fear". Depending on how hardy they are, they can take a different amount of walloping before kicking you off and letting you deal with the baddies yourself.

Veeshan

Atleast the leash line seems further than most game out currently but i do miss the old EQ days where mobs would chase you to the guards or to zone line which makes sense since they would want u out of there home and so on.

I think it would be nice to have an area where mobs of x type reset at so for tank showcase there a big invisable box drawn around the keep and mobs associated with defending the keep so the elite mobs in tank showcase will chase you all the way to the edge of this box before resetting so effectivly chasing you out of there objectives there defending or there home and so on.
i know leash line were originaly added due to mob trains cause god forbit there a minor inconvience but i dont see the issue with mob training like it added an living world feel to the game and more realism in the world. Not to mention it was fun agroing all the low level mobs outside north qeynos in everquest and train them onto a guard to see if the lowbie mobs could zerg a higher lvl guard to death (got nothing out of it but was fun to pass time).

As a possible pvp perspective though if somojne tries to train mobs onto your group you could simply Root or stun him and let mobs kill him since u can flag to hit people so there is a counter to mobtraining although this wasnt realy an issue in EQ anyway due to social/group aspect of the game and you couldnt name change so if people knew u were a jerk everyone on the server knew u were a jerk like just alone meant ninja looting was fairly non exsistant in a world where it was so easily done since no need/greed system.

funny thing is Everquest no leash system has probaly created so many lasting memories for the players in that game some good some bad i know it has for me