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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Tanking and Threat mechanics (a creative exercise)
Lash
Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
I am mainly writing this as a creative exercise. Feel free to ignore it.
There is a few key issues I think any threat system intrepid uses needs to address. I am going to be outlining some of the issues I have seen in other games and then propose a solution I would try to solve them. I am making the assumption that threat is going to be a real mechanic with proper design and implementation.
Key Issues I have observed in threat and tanking systems
- People do not want to wait for a tank to get threat.
- UI often lacks proper support for threat creating a lack of clarity.
- Threat is often nebulous in design with hidden numbers and vague descriptions.
- A tank player that is not currently tanking a boss stops being a tank and becomes a low damage dps.
- Tanks often lack the ability to be preemptive in their threat management and it creates purely reactive gameplay via a taunt skill.
Regardless of the rest of my post I think these issues need to be addressed in the threat system being used by intrepid. There is a reason a lot of games just devolve into threat being a non-issue that you do not even think about. The core design has to be something that can be built on and developed. With clarity in mind so players know what is going on.
How I would solve the issues outlined (Very long creative exercise section you can ignore)
Establishing a core to the threat system that I am going to be basing all mechanics around
-Threat is a simple 0-100 system. This would make the UI elements for threat very simple and easy to read. The tank starts encounters with 100 threat via a passive. Everyone else starts with 0. If there is no tank in the party a mob will start the encounter with 100 threat to the first target that hit it with threat rapidly depleting if the target does not continue to take action beyond the first hit. A damage dealer and healer slowly gain threat on each target. Displayed on the target's nameplate. If a healer or damage dealer reaches 100 threat they pull threat off the target (Only relevant in a small party situation). If a tank reaches 0 the target switches to the ally with the highest threat level. Threat is transferred not created so the total is always 100 across everyone in combat with a mob. Threat transfer is determined by normal means. Damage and healing will transfer threat from whoever is the target (typically the tank). A tank can also transfer threat from an ally back to themselves via skills and dealing damage or healing. Though most threat a tank recovers should be from their skills so they are not forced to use high damage builds to keep threat. It is easier to lose threat than it is to gain threat. So a non-tank that is targeted will have an easier time dumping that threat than they did gaining it. A tank bleeds threat at a reduced rate via the (Daunting Presence) passive while they are the target.
-A tank has skills that either stops or reverses threat transfer for their allies or specific party members. The tank can see everyone's threat level on their unit frames for whatever they have targeted. This means a tank can preemptively reduce threat from someone who is getting close to max.
If a party member is rapidly gaining threat due to a large cooldown use, the tank would be able to use a skill on that party member that stops their threat gen or transfers it to the tank in some way. Threat transfer can either be round robin, random, or based on threat totals depending on how you want to design a skill an determine its usage.
-Off tanks would be able to manage and reduce threat levels even without actually having threat themselves just by monitoring threat levels of the party using the unit frames. Or even transfer threat to the main tank so they can focus on staying alive. If an off tank has the highest threat level they will automatically be the target of a mob when the main tank's threat is reduced to 0.
-For non-tank players they would simply have to keep track of their own threat levels vs the tank. They would know exactly when they need to modify their gameplay to prevent pulling off the tank. With proper communication and well timed skill usage a damage dealer would never pull threat off the tank while maintaining optimal damage output.
-For large raid bosses where expected number of players fighting is greater than or close to 100 the threat total increases to 1000 for those bosses. While all threat generation remains the same being rooted by the normal amounts. This would create situations where a main tank would need multiple off tanks funneling them threat and reducing it on party members for them to remain the target. For this type of boss threat would be generated and not only transferred up to the cap of 1000.
Expanding on the core idea with details
-Examples of some skills a tank might have and their usage:
[Active - General] - (Inciting Strikes) Slashes twice in a forward cone. Redirects additional 1 threat to the tank per hit. (This is an existing skill. As you can see it is no longer nebulous in design. You know exactly what it will do. With it being per strike you can now make skill points give it an additional strike so it would naturally give more threat)
[Passive] - (Knocking Shock) When the tank knocks down a target, transfer 1 threat from every ally that has at least 10 threat.
[Active -General] (Aegis) Instantly dispels all negative effects on the caster, then creates a protective dome behind the tank for 15 seconds, transferring 50% of all damage received by targets within the area to the tank instead. All targets within the cone also receive increased status effect resistance and reduced threat transfer for the duration. (Would now let allies position themselves to reduce their own threat if they choose)
[Passive] - (Daunting Presence) The first blow against a target by the tank transfers up to 100 threat to the tank. Threat transfer is slowed by 75% when the tank is being targeted (resets if the target leaves combat)
(This passive is what fixes the issue where people do not want to wait to deal damage. A tank would always have threat on a newly pulled mob. For a raid boss they would only have 100/1000 threat so they still need to be careful on them.)
[Active - General Use] - (Distracting Strike) Hits the target with a distracting blow that redirects their wavering attention back to the tank. 1 threat is transferred from the ally with the highest threat to the tank. This effect is tripled if the ally has more threat than the tank.
[Active - Preemptive Use] - (Blinding Sand) Blinds the target and prevents all threat transfer for the duration except to the tank. Target has a high chance to miss (Because the mob cannot see they do not know who is hitting them. Thus they keep attacking the tank in front of them. No ally gains threat for the duration so this could be used during a damage dealer's large cooldown to prevent all threat they would have normally gained)
[Active - Preemptive Use] - (Mirage Cloak) Creates an illusion on the target ally that makes them look like the Tank. All threat from the targeted Ally is transferred to the tank instead. (This also has some PvP useage. Can use it on an off-tank to create a huge burst of threat if they save their big threat skills for the duration of this skill)
[Active - Reactive Use] - (Enraging Shout) Shouts at enemies around the tank. Affected targets ignore threat and target the tank for 7 seconds. (With skill points you could give it additional effects like threat can only be transferred to the tank for the duration and the Tank transfers 5 threat from the ally with the highest threat after the effect ends) This would serve as an emergency button and with skill points cause a tank to regain control of a mob they lost threat on.
Active blocking idea
Putting this in its own section. I thing it would be interesting if they keep the active block mechanic to have it naturally interact with threat. The core idea would be that to a mob, A target just standing there blocking is not very threatening. They could give tanks a passive that increases the damage blocked but causes a threat loss while holding in the block button. (This means a damage dealer could not just hold block to reduce their threat). The idea would be that as a tank holds up their shield threat is transferred to party members in a round robin fashion. This would prevent tanks from just standing in place holding up their shield while mobs beat on them for a significant amount of time. It would also incentivize well timed blocks to prevent threat loss or a "Perfect Block" A perfect block would not even need any special bonus outside of no threat loss.
Mob passives and behavior
Mobs could have affinities and aversions.
For an affinity it could be an element they do not care much about. Like a fire elemental being hit by fire. This would greatly reduce threat transfer to a target that is dealing that type of damage. So a tank could safely ignore using their skills on that ally.
For an aversion a mob could have an element or thing they do not like. Like a humanoid mob that does not like poison so poison damage would have an increased threat transfer rate. This means a tank would have to be aware of that aversion (displayed via an icon with a tooltip or something similar) and focus on that party member with their threat reduction and transfer skills.
The tank could also make use of these aversions to greatly increase their threat retention. Like if a mob that hates healers, the tank could employ forms of self healing to maintain threat levels. If a mob hates fire damage a tank could use a fire damage enchant or spec to have an easier time tanking those mobs. This would also encourage a variety of tank builds depending on the location you are fighting mobs.
Could have positional based aversions. Like an aversion to getting hit in the back so you have to position as a damage dealer to hit that type of mob in the front. Or you could have a troll that is too stupid to target anything it cannot see.
How an encounter would play out
-A tank would pull a mob and gain 100 threat. As the fight goes on the damage dealers and healers would slowly gain threat while the tank loses it. The tank uses skills to either prevent that threat loss or transfer it back. If a tank reaches 0 threat the ally with the highest threat is now the target of the mob. Threat is now being transferred from the new target until they reach 0 threat. Realistically a normal mob encounter the tank would not lose threat if they are using their abilities. In a mult-target pull this might be more complicated. For longer boss type mob encounters a tank would need to preemptively use skills on party members that are high on threat. Assuming proper play and a bit of communication it would result in a clean encounter with a tank juggling between 20-50 threat total while the rest is distributed to other people attacking the target. With larger party size a healthy number for a tank to have could be closer to 15-30. Keep the numbers small and simple to display in the UI.
-What happens when a tank does lose threat on a mob. When the tank reaches 0 threat the mob will target an ally with the highest threat level. In an ideal situation this would be a small number to deal with like 10-20 threat. The tank would need to use emergency skills to either force the target to hit them instead or transfer that threat back to them. If a target has a high amount of threat this would probably be more difficult. Keeping in mind that the new target would need to hit 0 threat to drop being a target but the Daunting Presence of a tank means this transfer rate is greatly increased for a non-tank. I would not have a skill that transfers all threat to the tank because it would trivialize the system. The idea would be skills that are more effective when an ally has extreme levels of threat and less effective when they have a small amount like 10-20. Like giving a skill an effect that transfers 20 threat to the tank if the ally has above 60 threat.
Do my ideas solve any or all of the issues I outlined
- People do not want to wait for a tank to get threat.
(This is solved with the Daunting Presence passive that opens all encounters and ensures the tank has threat and can maintain it)
- UI often lacks proper support for threat creating a lack of clarity.
(This is solved with a simple bar UI element on mob nameplates that shows the mob's target threat level with the player's current threat level displayed as a normal UI element. While tanks can see the threat of all party members on Unit frames or nameplates as they choose.)
- Threat is often nebulous in design with hidden numbers and vague descriptions.
(Instead of "increased threat generation" skills would use real numbers like 1 additional threat. Threat reductions are displayed as percentages. Threat uses a simple 0-100 system. There is still some hidden numbers in terms of the damage and healing values increasing transfer rates so this issue could still use some work that is not fully solved by my system)
- A tank player that is not currently tanking a boss stops being a tank and becomes a low damage dps.
(This would be solved by giving tanks skills that transfer or prevent threat on party members even if they are not actually the one tanking a boss. Affinities and Aversions would encourage a variety of builds for tanks so they will not all be the same. An off-tank can still see the threat levels of the entire party and manage it as they see fit)
- Tanks often lack the ability to be preemptive in their threat management and it creates purely reactive gameplay via a taunt skill.
(With a combination of preemptive skills and passives with proper play a tank should not lose threat. While the reactive skills can remain it would not be an automatic win button. Losing threat should be fairly dangerous but always be the result of poor communication or poor play unless the encounter is deigned around losing threat.)
My solutions are not perfect and would need a lot more design work than what I outlined. There is still an issue of some nebulous math for threat transfer rates that my solutions do not solve. However I do believe there is a better way to do tanking even if my ideas are terrible and would never work. I am not going to pretend these ideas are amazing or even good. This was mostly just to get some stuff off my mind that I have been thinking about for a while. I might add more later If I feel up to it and fix any contradictions if I missed them.
There is a few key issues I think any threat system intrepid uses needs to address. I am going to be outlining some of the issues I have seen in other games and then propose a solution I would try to solve them. I am making the assumption that threat is going to be a real mechanic with proper design and implementation.
Key Issues I have observed in threat and tanking systems
- People do not want to wait for a tank to get threat.
- UI often lacks proper support for threat creating a lack of clarity.
- Threat is often nebulous in design with hidden numbers and vague descriptions.
- A tank player that is not currently tanking a boss stops being a tank and becomes a low damage dps.
- Tanks often lack the ability to be preemptive in their threat management and it creates purely reactive gameplay via a taunt skill.
Regardless of the rest of my post I think these issues need to be addressed in the threat system being used by intrepid. There is a reason a lot of games just devolve into threat being a non-issue that you do not even think about. The core design has to be something that can be built on and developed. With clarity in mind so players know what is going on.
How I would solve the issues outlined (Very long creative exercise section you can ignore)
Establishing a core to the threat system that I am going to be basing all mechanics around
-Threat is a simple 0-100 system. This would make the UI elements for threat very simple and easy to read. The tank starts encounters with 100 threat via a passive. Everyone else starts with 0. If there is no tank in the party a mob will start the encounter with 100 threat to the first target that hit it with threat rapidly depleting if the target does not continue to take action beyond the first hit. A damage dealer and healer slowly gain threat on each target. Displayed on the target's nameplate. If a healer or damage dealer reaches 100 threat they pull threat off the target (Only relevant in a small party situation). If a tank reaches 0 the target switches to the ally with the highest threat level. Threat is transferred not created so the total is always 100 across everyone in combat with a mob. Threat transfer is determined by normal means. Damage and healing will transfer threat from whoever is the target (typically the tank). A tank can also transfer threat from an ally back to themselves via skills and dealing damage or healing. Though most threat a tank recovers should be from their skills so they are not forced to use high damage builds to keep threat. It is easier to lose threat than it is to gain threat. So a non-tank that is targeted will have an easier time dumping that threat than they did gaining it. A tank bleeds threat at a reduced rate via the (Daunting Presence) passive while they are the target.
-A tank has skills that either stops or reverses threat transfer for their allies or specific party members. The tank can see everyone's threat level on their unit frames for whatever they have targeted. This means a tank can preemptively reduce threat from someone who is getting close to max.
If a party member is rapidly gaining threat due to a large cooldown use, the tank would be able to use a skill on that party member that stops their threat gen or transfers it to the tank in some way. Threat transfer can either be round robin, random, or based on threat totals depending on how you want to design a skill an determine its usage.
-Off tanks would be able to manage and reduce threat levels even without actually having threat themselves just by monitoring threat levels of the party using the unit frames. Or even transfer threat to the main tank so they can focus on staying alive. If an off tank has the highest threat level they will automatically be the target of a mob when the main tank's threat is reduced to 0.
-For non-tank players they would simply have to keep track of their own threat levels vs the tank. They would know exactly when they need to modify their gameplay to prevent pulling off the tank. With proper communication and well timed skill usage a damage dealer would never pull threat off the tank while maintaining optimal damage output.
-For large raid bosses where expected number of players fighting is greater than or close to 100 the threat total increases to 1000 for those bosses. While all threat generation remains the same being rooted by the normal amounts. This would create situations where a main tank would need multiple off tanks funneling them threat and reducing it on party members for them to remain the target. For this type of boss threat would be generated and not only transferred up to the cap of 1000.
Expanding on the core idea with details
-Examples of some skills a tank might have and their usage:
[Active - General] - (Inciting Strikes) Slashes twice in a forward cone. Redirects additional 1 threat to the tank per hit. (This is an existing skill. As you can see it is no longer nebulous in design. You know exactly what it will do. With it being per strike you can now make skill points give it an additional strike so it would naturally give more threat)
[Passive] - (Knocking Shock) When the tank knocks down a target, transfer 1 threat from every ally that has at least 10 threat.
[Active -General] (Aegis) Instantly dispels all negative effects on the caster, then creates a protective dome behind the tank for 15 seconds, transferring 50% of all damage received by targets within the area to the tank instead. All targets within the cone also receive increased status effect resistance and reduced threat transfer for the duration. (Would now let allies position themselves to reduce their own threat if they choose)
[Passive] - (Daunting Presence) The first blow against a target by the tank transfers up to 100 threat to the tank. Threat transfer is slowed by 75% when the tank is being targeted (resets if the target leaves combat)
(This passive is what fixes the issue where people do not want to wait to deal damage. A tank would always have threat on a newly pulled mob. For a raid boss they would only have 100/1000 threat so they still need to be careful on them.)
[Active - General Use] - (Distracting Strike) Hits the target with a distracting blow that redirects their wavering attention back to the tank. 1 threat is transferred from the ally with the highest threat to the tank. This effect is tripled if the ally has more threat than the tank.
[Active - Preemptive Use] - (Blinding Sand) Blinds the target and prevents all threat transfer for the duration except to the tank. Target has a high chance to miss (Because the mob cannot see they do not know who is hitting them. Thus they keep attacking the tank in front of them. No ally gains threat for the duration so this could be used during a damage dealer's large cooldown to prevent all threat they would have normally gained)
[Active - Preemptive Use] - (Mirage Cloak) Creates an illusion on the target ally that makes them look like the Tank. All threat from the targeted Ally is transferred to the tank instead. (This also has some PvP useage. Can use it on an off-tank to create a huge burst of threat if they save their big threat skills for the duration of this skill)
[Active - Reactive Use] - (Enraging Shout) Shouts at enemies around the tank. Affected targets ignore threat and target the tank for 7 seconds. (With skill points you could give it additional effects like threat can only be transferred to the tank for the duration and the Tank transfers 5 threat from the ally with the highest threat after the effect ends) This would serve as an emergency button and with skill points cause a tank to regain control of a mob they lost threat on.
Active blocking idea
Putting this in its own section. I thing it would be interesting if they keep the active block mechanic to have it naturally interact with threat. The core idea would be that to a mob, A target just standing there blocking is not very threatening. They could give tanks a passive that increases the damage blocked but causes a threat loss while holding in the block button. (This means a damage dealer could not just hold block to reduce their threat). The idea would be that as a tank holds up their shield threat is transferred to party members in a round robin fashion. This would prevent tanks from just standing in place holding up their shield while mobs beat on them for a significant amount of time. It would also incentivize well timed blocks to prevent threat loss or a "Perfect Block" A perfect block would not even need any special bonus outside of no threat loss.
Mob passives and behavior
Mobs could have affinities and aversions.
For an affinity it could be an element they do not care much about. Like a fire elemental being hit by fire. This would greatly reduce threat transfer to a target that is dealing that type of damage. So a tank could safely ignore using their skills on that ally.
For an aversion a mob could have an element or thing they do not like. Like a humanoid mob that does not like poison so poison damage would have an increased threat transfer rate. This means a tank would have to be aware of that aversion (displayed via an icon with a tooltip or something similar) and focus on that party member with their threat reduction and transfer skills.
The tank could also make use of these aversions to greatly increase their threat retention. Like if a mob that hates healers, the tank could employ forms of self healing to maintain threat levels. If a mob hates fire damage a tank could use a fire damage enchant or spec to have an easier time tanking those mobs. This would also encourage a variety of tank builds depending on the location you are fighting mobs.
Could have positional based aversions. Like an aversion to getting hit in the back so you have to position as a damage dealer to hit that type of mob in the front. Or you could have a troll that is too stupid to target anything it cannot see.
How an encounter would play out
-A tank would pull a mob and gain 100 threat. As the fight goes on the damage dealers and healers would slowly gain threat while the tank loses it. The tank uses skills to either prevent that threat loss or transfer it back. If a tank reaches 0 threat the ally with the highest threat is now the target of the mob. Threat is now being transferred from the new target until they reach 0 threat. Realistically a normal mob encounter the tank would not lose threat if they are using their abilities. In a mult-target pull this might be more complicated. For longer boss type mob encounters a tank would need to preemptively use skills on party members that are high on threat. Assuming proper play and a bit of communication it would result in a clean encounter with a tank juggling between 20-50 threat total while the rest is distributed to other people attacking the target. With larger party size a healthy number for a tank to have could be closer to 15-30. Keep the numbers small and simple to display in the UI.
-What happens when a tank does lose threat on a mob. When the tank reaches 0 threat the mob will target an ally with the highest threat level. In an ideal situation this would be a small number to deal with like 10-20 threat. The tank would need to use emergency skills to either force the target to hit them instead or transfer that threat back to them. If a target has a high amount of threat this would probably be more difficult. Keeping in mind that the new target would need to hit 0 threat to drop being a target but the Daunting Presence of a tank means this transfer rate is greatly increased for a non-tank. I would not have a skill that transfers all threat to the tank because it would trivialize the system. The idea would be skills that are more effective when an ally has extreme levels of threat and less effective when they have a small amount like 10-20. Like giving a skill an effect that transfers 20 threat to the tank if the ally has above 60 threat.
Do my ideas solve any or all of the issues I outlined
- People do not want to wait for a tank to get threat.
(This is solved with the Daunting Presence passive that opens all encounters and ensures the tank has threat and can maintain it)
- UI often lacks proper support for threat creating a lack of clarity.
(This is solved with a simple bar UI element on mob nameplates that shows the mob's target threat level with the player's current threat level displayed as a normal UI element. While tanks can see the threat of all party members on Unit frames or nameplates as they choose.)
- Threat is often nebulous in design with hidden numbers and vague descriptions.
(Instead of "increased threat generation" skills would use real numbers like 1 additional threat. Threat reductions are displayed as percentages. Threat uses a simple 0-100 system. There is still some hidden numbers in terms of the damage and healing values increasing transfer rates so this issue could still use some work that is not fully solved by my system)
- A tank player that is not currently tanking a boss stops being a tank and becomes a low damage dps.
(This would be solved by giving tanks skills that transfer or prevent threat on party members even if they are not actually the one tanking a boss. Affinities and Aversions would encourage a variety of builds for tanks so they will not all be the same. An off-tank can still see the threat levels of the entire party and manage it as they see fit)
- Tanks often lack the ability to be preemptive in their threat management and it creates purely reactive gameplay via a taunt skill.
(With a combination of preemptive skills and passives with proper play a tank should not lose threat. While the reactive skills can remain it would not be an automatic win button. Losing threat should be fairly dangerous but always be the result of poor communication or poor play unless the encounter is deigned around losing threat.)
My solutions are not perfect and would need a lot more design work than what I outlined. There is still an issue of some nebulous math for threat transfer rates that my solutions do not solve. However I do believe there is a better way to do tanking even if my ideas are terrible and would never work. I am not going to pretend these ideas are amazing or even good. This was mostly just to get some stuff off my mind that I have been thinking about for a while. I might add more later If I feel up to it and fix any contradictions if I missed them.
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