Splinter Topic: What can "Make MMOS Great ... Again"?

Ludullu

Kilion wrote: »

That again is under the assumption that everyone wants a citizenship.

Oh, of course, but we were talking about node citizen amounts, which is why I brought up that Intrepid could easily control that.

Solvryn

Combat and Class Design that has meaning and isn’t a secondary thought.

“Test your might” “Test your knowledge” “Test your mastery”

Ludullu

Solvryn wrote: »

Test your might

MORTAL KOMBAAAAT!

Solvryn

NiKr wrote: »

Solvryn wrote: »

Test your might

MORTAL KOMBAAAAT!

It was actually something that struck me again listening to Shi Heng Yi being interviewed. So then I had to make the reference :P

Strevi

novercalis wrote: »

numbers of players in a MMO Game shouldnt be the focus. That should have NO impact into an mmo, as long as the world feels alive and vibrant.

Unfortunately, I do worry about AoC in terms of #

1) I know they don't aim to be a WoW Killer or king of the mmo
2) They arent looking to be a game hosted for 12 mil, 5 mil let alone 1 mil.

HOWEVER I think this may be one of it's downfall in terms of server size and system.

This game is cornering itself by putting a number, cause a low number may not be great for AoC node system.

100 nodes, if we were to play 50 players per node, we would have 5,000 players.
100 nodes x 100 players per node is the current design AFIAK. We know the server caps at 10k. Also citizenship is cap to 1 per account, so Alts can't fix issues when server is below cap or below 50%.

These numbers dont really add up / or be the cause of "death". under 10k, there is no tension. Even 10k players may not be enough tension. Anything less and it's a static world.

If the playerbase divides themselves evenly, 10k players, 100 per node. IDK - I cant articulate but I fear this is the weakness AoC has and IDK if they even realize it.
I love the idea of 100 nodes but maybe its too much.
I think 5k server cap with an active 3k players per server to work around may be doable, but that will require reducing the amount of nodes. Nothing wrong having large nodes tho.

5 metropolis isnt gonna host only 100 players. It's gonna be more
tier 5 nodes isnt gonna host only 100 players. It's gonna be more

Tier 1 = 50 players sounds about right
Tier 2 = 50 players sounds about right
Tier 3 = 75 players sounds about right
Tier 4 = 100-150 players sounds about right
tier 5 = 200-300 sounds about right
Tier 6 = 500

while there is no cap in citizenship - this is still the progression or feel of nodes having active players on any given time. You start placing those numbers on the map - the numbers don't add up for this node system to function as intended.

@novercalis Indeed having server maps created for 10000 players I find to be a risk too.
A game with similar mechanics seems to be Mortal Online 2. It is PvP, has player driver economy, localized to cities, siege mechanic will be added soon... It has a huge map and only one server which is enough because only 1500 players play. They want to increase support to 10k but I cannot imagine the game becoming better when density increases.
Could be that AoC will end up having one server too and game to be balanced for a smaller player count.

pyreal

I would pose a question: What made MMOs Great in the first place?

My first MMO was Asheron's Call.
(A grew up on a farm in the ruruals, TVs weren't that common in our house, let alone PCs)

What made it great to me, beyond the nostalgia of a new world?

One you master the rotation, get your island t-shirt, make an Atlan, have a Holtburger, what keeps you there?

What makes MMOs Great (according to me and not in any particular order):

Excellently executed story, depth of game mechanics, and community.

Strevi

pyreal wrote: »

What made it great to me, beyond the nostalgia of a new world?

I don't understand how can your first mmo create a nostalgia, especially one of a new world.

pyreal wrote: »

I would pose a question: What made MMOs Great in the first place?

In my opinion with nostalgia, while it is a positive feeling, and reminds you the original feelings, you do not end up feeling as strongly as the first time. Being the first is the reason why it was special.
AoC could be great for those who will play it now as their first MMO in their life.

An MMO to be greater than previous MMOs we played,
- it should bring new features never seen before without removing existing traits of what define the game as an mmorpg
- and those new features should be more than 50% of the whole set of features. Then it could have the same impact as when we played our first mmo

Xenra

I believe that finding what would make the genre great is a very dual edged sword. As many want very strict progression paths and power goal oriented mindsets many seek a 'win' condition of sorts. How I see making an mmo great would be having such a vast journey that contacts and memories are formed with others. If I had to guess on how to achieve this it would be by having such a large horizontal progress with very modest power gain. Make it so the level window of your friends matters less so that when out in the world you find that mid or lower level dungeon but it becomes a great experience for the whole team. When you have friends that outpace you due to different work schedules or commitments you get into a mindset to chase them and compromise aspects of your journey. The world should be so vast yet not so tiered in progression that you can go exploring with friends climb that volcano and not have to worry about someone being to low a level to come along.

If I had to compare it to something else I would say such as the adventures in the Lord of the Rings. Many of the traveling companions were far more skilled than others lets say their levels were higher. But everyone still made the journey they all supported and build bonds and memories together.

The magic is thinking, "Whats over there?" Or, "Lets see what items and components we can discover here!" Discovery, and comradery is what will make it great. Make it more fun to experiment with mixing plants into new potions or breeding two animals from completely different regions. Rather than, I need this sword so I can farm these boars to X level then get the wyrm scales for this node quest so I can prepare to unlock this raid.

Solving the mysteries of the world and finding bits of lore hidden in the vastness of the realms. Make the game about the experience, one that is magical to share with others. Rather than incentivizing the end game carrot. The world needs feet upon it to form trails of memories and not just marching path down into a dungeon's depth.

I might be rambling a bit, but I want it to feel like after a day or so if you don't care if you got a level or a new sword, only that when you log off you are still thinking about the world and not statistics or shortcuts. Don't have it all catered the finish line, but so much more about the start and the journey.

Sjelden

How to make a MMO game great?

1. Passion
2. Resources
3. The guts to stick with a niche game, as mainstream crowds (tends to) kill off uniqueness
4. Ask the players where the problems are, but never ask the players what the solution is
5. Don't cater to the instant gratification crowd
6. Healthy monetization with no P2W

No mods, no FPS-meter, no LFG-feature, no battlegrounds, no queue system, no market, no bazaar and no gearscore. Reward knowledge and exploration.
Enable and reward player interaction, without disabling solo content.

Reward group play. Dont punish it.
Make character progression, quests, and gameplay content more rewarding when in a group.

Everquest 2 had a fantastic system where abilities between classes had synergies. You could play "off" the other members of the party to gain huge benefits in combat, for added buffs, damage bonus, debuffs etc when players got it right. It was a fun little minigame during combat that could have profound impact on the outcome of an encounter.

Basically, do make it an old peoples game.