Intrepid Studio's preference and restrictions. (ToS Discussion)

itsKace

I read through the Terms & Conditions and the other information regarding the End User License Agreement but I couldn't find information regarding Intrepid Studio's ideal community activity about third party activities. I asked in the discord about third party PvP tournaments and was given the okay as far as that goes but I plan on creating a mercenary guild that provides all forms of services on Verra as well. Which is where my overall question lays, what would Intrepid be okay with and not okay with. We all know real world transactions are notorious within MMORPGs and other games but I'm not trying to sell gold for real $$$ or anything. I am wondering if other types of services such as teaching people dungeons or how to PvP (more knowledge based services), is Intrepid okay with people offering services for real currency. This would include stuff like coaching people through PvE and PvP. Does Intrepid want things like that to only be handled with transactions of in-game currency or are these things okay for player to player to decide however they want to pay for the service?

One big reason I ask this is to know what Intrepid's standpoint is on things like this so me and my guild mates do not risk any trouble and I can maintain my own community to standards okay for Ashes of Creation. If it is allowed, I would want to use those types of funds for the Tournaments mentioned before or having a guild savings that could help a member who is struggling pay for another month of Ashes. If not then I know I would need to find other means to fund such ideas.

Kilion

Relevant context from the Wiki: Security systems against Real Money Transactions.

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I think that the general goal of games in general, especially of MMORPGs, and the motivation behind banning P2W is, that the devs want to create a world in which reality does not dictate success. I think that selling "coaching" for real money would be something that you could do but it undermines the social aspect of an MMORPG. You should help each other by finding reasons and motivations to do so WITHIN the game, not by making transactional contracts IRL and relying again on real world resources to progress.

If I had to guess and since I haven't found any more evidence regarding this than you did, there is a good chance that such operations will not be tolerated. And I can absolutely see why. It is grey P2W.

daveywavey

No, no. I just happened to give him the top-level gear for free while we were doing the dungeon. He only paid me to be the dungeon guide. The gear was totally separate...

Roxi

It looks the same as if a robber came into the store and asks: "Can I take some of your goods to sell on the black market?"

Voxtrium

I would expect that nearly any form of real world currency transfer between players for AOC is going to be frowned upon my IS. However paying for straight up coaching is neither something IS can determine happened nor something they could prove.

They are actually settings up systems for players to use specifically in mercenary settings. War Hogs is a guild based on mercenary gameplay with our focus being on providing PVP and PVE support to other guilds for in game earnable items, like gear and gold. They are trying hard to promote player to player interaction by doing things like including success rate for caravan deliveries and raids, and a payment system for the caravans.

All around there will be many easy ways for you as a mercenary to help people for in game achievable items in return for gear/gold. Do not expect IS to encourage any sort of real currency transaction for any in game actions though.

tautau

I remember people in L2 selling such coaching services. The players who were 'coached' tended to be awful players since they didn't learn the lessons the hard way. We avoided them since they tended to do stupid things that ended up in party wipes...far better to learn how to be a good player by playing the game!

Also, the 'coaches' tended to be far less competent than they thought they were.

A fool and his money are soon parted.

Depraved

i dont see why paying for coaching would be a bad thing, but I can see how can that be abused under the excuse of "I was just coaching him"

you could sell dungeon runs for real money under the excuse of "you are just coaching and teaching that guy how to clear the dungeon" for example.

you could always set up your coaching website, then make videos explaining how to clear content, and then you just sell access to the videos.

or you could sell the coaching, but your character can't be in the same party with the buyer or even in the same area doing the same content. you are just watching him stream on discord and telling him what to do.

WeGbored

I think this is a very good topic to discuss, as the current trend in gaming of selling "coaching services" is really getting out of hand. If you guys are really doing it just for in-game stuff, bravo to you guys, 👏 🙌 👍

I'm gonna use Rocket League as a real world example.

RL has bronze/silver/gold/plat/diamond/champ/GC(Grand Champ) and SSL as their ranking system.

Ive been hovering in champ 1 for the last year or so, and I routinely watch "pro" RL streams and content. I'm not gonna namedrop the guy specifically, but there's a guy who runs a coaching service that GUARANTEES to get any player in the diamond-champ range up to GC in 6 weeks or less... for $1,400.

He's got some of the best RL players in the world involved in the program, but the whole point of sharing this is what it all basically boils down to (even though it's not said out loud) is that all you're really paying for is to duo-queue with people who are gonna carry you to GC. $1,400 worth apparently. And I'm not knocking his hustle. Guys in college and made over a million dollars in a year playing rocket league. But that's where the problem lies, I think. Everybody wants to turn everything into a business.

I'm a soloqueue masochist- always have been. I would rather take the hard road and earn it myself, (Champ 2 division 3 right now 😉)...

But there are tons of people out there who will drop that $ in a heartbeat.

League of Legends suffers extremely similar "coaching" issues as well that mostly just boil down to "stop solo queueing".

I think the question is, do we wanna encourage this type of behavior?

Ludullu

WeGbored wrote: »

I think the question is, do we wanna encourage this type of behavior?

No

WeGbored

I agree whole-heartedly.

Xnate13X

No RWT should be allowed at all. Too many ways to abuse it. I have spent thousands of hours of my life making new characters with people, teaching people, writing up Word guides with pictures and links, etc etc.. for new players and/or people I meet and become friends with. I have NEVER charged anyone anything. If you can't do it because you enjoy helping, taking people under your wing, making a new character and teaching along the way, set up times to play together, chat or what not... Then you just shouldn't be helping anyone out anyways. It's a game, have fun. When people make games into a business, it ruins the fun. Now you're taking away a player that could be learning with a different new player, or that could run into someone that would help them for free. Hell, if you want to charge people, charge in game currency ONLY. That is perfectly fine because they have EARNED that currency themselves(hopefully). Therefore, they can choose how to spend the product of their gaming efforts. Either on gear, or for someone they don't know to teach them. Of course, it should NOT be supported by the studio because you will have scammers no matter how safe you try to be.. This way it'll force people to PLAY the GAME they purchased that was designed for PLAYING and not paying people to play for you. If you don't want to play the game for fun, don't play. If you can't afford $15 to pay for a struggling guild member in a tough time to have membership, then maybe you should be working and not playing video games. Please don't try to fake empathy to take advantage of the game. If you care that much about these things, use your own money. We all know this money that you make from RWT services would not ALL be put back into the game. Just like when thr government says they're going to tax more for something to help out with a specific thing but then really only 20% of the money goes towards what they said and the rest gets used elsewhere. Get your RWT sneaky butt out of here. If you truly care about people, do it because you like to help, not because you want to profit. You have real life to go profit, don't corrupt another game.

Depraved

WeGbored wrote: »

I think this is a very good topic to discuss, as the current trend in gaming of selling "coaching services" is really getting out of hand. If you guys are really doing it just for in-game stuff, bravo to you guys, 👏 🙌 👍

I'm gonna use Rocket League as a real world example.

RL has bronze/silver/gold/plat/diamond/champ/GC(Grand Champ) and SSL as their ranking system.

Ive been hovering in champ 1 for the last year or so, and I routinely watch "pro" RL streams and content. I'm not gonna namedrop the guy specifically, but there's a guy who runs a coaching service that GUARANTEES to get any player in the diamond-champ range up to GC in 6 weeks or less... for $1,400.

He's got some of the best RL players in the world involved in the program, but the whole point of sharing this is what it all basically boils down to (even though it's not said out loud) is that all you're really paying for is to duo-queue with people who are gonna carry you to GC. $1,400 worth apparently. And I'm not knocking his hustle. Guys in college and made over a million dollars in a year playing rocket league. But that's where the problem lies, I think. Everybody wants to turn everything into a business.

I'm a soloqueue masochist- always have been. I would rather take the hard road and earn it myself, (Champ 2 division 3 right now 😉)...

But there are tons of people out there who will drop that $ in a heartbeat.

League of Legends suffers extremely similar "coaching" issues as well that mostly just boil down to "stop solo queueing".

I think the question is, do we wanna encourage this type of behavior?

those players gonna lose games after they stop duo queuing and ruin it for everybody else T_T

itsKace

Xnate13X wrote: »

No RWT should be allowed at all. Too many ways to abuse it. I have spent thousands of hours of my life making new characters with people, teaching people, writing up Word guides with pictures and links, etc etc.. for new players and/or people I meet and become friends with. I have NEVER charged anyone anything. If you can't do it because you enjoy helping, taking people under your wing, making a new character and teaching along the way, set up times to play together, chat or what not... Then you just shouldn't be helping anyone out anyways. It's a game, have fun. When people make games into a business, it ruins the fun. Now you're taking away a player that could be learning with a different new player, or that could run into someone that would help them for free. Hell, if you want to charge people, charge in game currency ONLY. That is perfectly fine because they have EARNED that currency themselves(hopefully). Therefore, they can choose how to spend the product of their gaming efforts. Either on gear, or for someone they don't know to teach them. Of course, it should NOT be supported by the studio because you will have scammers no matter how safe you try to be.. This way it'll force people to PLAY the GAME they purchased that was designed for PLAYING and not paying people to play for you. If you don't want to play the game for fun, don't play. If you can't afford $15 to pay for a struggling guild member in a tough time to have membership, then maybe you should be working and not playing video games. Please don't try to fake empathy to take advantage of the game. If you care that much about these things, use your own money. We all know this money that you make from RWT services would not ALL be put back into the game. Just like when thr government says they're going to tax more for something to help out with a specific thing but then really only 20% of the money goes towards what they said and the rest gets used elsewhere. Get your RWT sneaky butt out of here. If you truly care about people, do it because you like to help, not because you want to profit. You have real life to go profit, don't corrupt another game.

You guys are being hostile for no reason when my reasoning fr asking is better clarification and to bring attention to these matters. I asked so I know not to turn a blind eye if someone in my guild is doing things the studio does not support. And it’s not faking empathy when I would happily support guild members in times of need. I am very much looking forward to the game and am asking a question everyone is glazing over so people from here on need to approached the subject critically and constructively rather than aggressively when no one else wants to ask about the elephant in the room.