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phone number verification

can we have phone number verification? this would limit botters, possible cheaters, goldsellers and abusing alt accounts if thats gonna be a thing.

example, lets say my phone number is 010 123 123 12, if i get banned on that phone number i cant reuse it on any other account, you have to be verified once a month on that phone number to make sure you still are in possession of that phone number.

steam has done this to cs go, and it was a fantastic drop of hackers in games.
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    SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I agree and disagree at the same time. Many times I've lost track of what uses my number and what doesn't and then its a real pain getting 2fa access once the number has been relinquished.
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    Presumably there are ways to change the number associated with the account, likely through your email address?
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
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    SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Yes, but, I'm a mad hatter and the systems get more complex. I never remember my passwords, let alone pass codes, telephone numbers and other such stuff lol. Hence my agree and disagree. If i had a choice I would prefer an encrypted access key fobs to access the 2fa parameters like some other games I've had.
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    Xnate13XXnate13X Member
    edited March 2023
    I'm fine with phone number but it will not solve anything. It will just make the botters have to use an extra script for account creation for the apps that give you a personal phone number that you can use for calls and texting while connected to the internet. Absolutely pointless for bot control but will help for security. Just don't change your phone number because it'll be just another thing to add to the list of impossible things to remember that require your phone number these days. x:

    Therefore, with that being said since it wont help with bots/gold farmers... you mind as well just stick with a google authenticator. p:
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    DiamahtDiamaht Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One
    SWTOR uses an app for two factor and that seems to work well.
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    obtite wrote: »
    can we have phone number verification? this would limit botters, possible cheaters, goldsellers and abusing alt accounts if thats gonna be a thing.

    example, lets say my phone number is 010 123 123 12, if i get banned on that phone number i cant reuse it on any other account, you have to be verified once a month on that phone number to make sure you still are in possession of that phone number.

    steam has done this to cs go, and it was a fantastic drop of hackers in games.

    I don't want this to be mandatory. what if you lose ur phone or its get stolen?
    or u lose ur number?

    also, you can get services with fake or disposable phone numbers, botters can use those and bypass the ban T_T
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    LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Yes PLEASE
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    Neurath wrote: »
    Yes, but, I'm a mad hatter and the systems get more complex. I never remember my passwords, let alone pass codes, telephone numbers and other such stuff lol. Hence my agree and disagree. If i had a choice I would prefer an encrypted access key fobs to access the 2fa parameters like some other games I've had.

    Wow, you had to buy an encrypted access key fob just to play a game?! That's hardcore!
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
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    SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    No. I didn't go out of my way to get one. It came with some Collector's Editions. I've bought a lot of collector editions across the years.

    The problem comes when the access fob breaks lol.
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    I would like the option for sure.
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    it was all meant as an option, so like in cs go, people who verify get to play with others that verify, and those who dont get to play with the unverified.
    maybe specific servers require verification....
    there was a marked drop of cheaters in games that did this, however ofc there will be persistant cheaters out there that will get around it.
    the general population of cheaters out there is just braindead andys out there anyways, so it will deter a big population anyways. same goes with the botters. new world is a perfect example of what happens if botters are allowed to run wild. economy is so screwed, buying gold cap ammount of gold is like 70 dollars.
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    unknownsystemerrorunknownsystemerror Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    I don't own a smartphone, don't want a smartphone, and don't need a smartphone. I have no worries about my personal or bank information being hacked because I don't keep it online. If Intrepid wants to make an optional 2FA (as it is currently) I am all for it. But I won't be signing up for their program if they make it mandatory or lock features and play behind it. Anecdotally if they do put some sort of "if you lose it you're screwed" options in they will only increase the headache for themselves on the other side. Just look to the number of forum posts or comments in Discord of people saying "I signed up for this years ago, and now it wants my 2FA? How do I reset that?" and then being told to file a ticket with CS.
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    Let me clarify something for you, @obtite. Running multiple Ashes of Creation instances on a single operating system is not possible, so phone verification is unnecessary to address the concerns you raised. Your concerns are simply unfounded.

    Moreover, there are now applications that allow you to obtain phone numbers from multiple countries, making phone number verification a less effective solution.

    Implementing this would require both time and money from Intrepid, and the potential benefit would be minimal, while it could potentially cause some dissatisfaction among certain users.
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
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    LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited March 2023
    I don't own a smartphone, don't want a smartphone, and don't need a smartphone.

    I think you are confused, this thread is about Phone Number verification, and it Should be mandatory.

    You don't need a smartphone with internet access to have a phone number and get texts, now, if you gonna argue in favor of those people that don't have a phone number...

    that's the 0.1% of the playerbase, those with tinfoil hats that probably also don't use internet and think video games are evil.

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    novercalisnovercalis Member, Founder, Kickstarter
    obtite wrote: »
    can we have phone number verification? this would limit botters, possible cheaters, goldsellers and abusing alt accounts if thats gonna be a thing.

    example, lets say my phone number is 010 123 123 12, if i get banned on that phone number i cant reuse it on any other account, you have to be verified once a month on that phone number to make sure you still are in possession of that phone number.

    steam has done this to cs go, and it was a fantastic drop of hackers in games.

    NO.

    I havent paid a single phone bill over 10 years now because I use a VOIP.
    Stuff like ChatGPT I can't even sign up for it, because it requires phone verification and not all verification tools allows for VOIP numbers.

    {UPK} United Player Killer - All your loot belongs to us.
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    novercalisnovercalis Member, Founder, Kickstarter
    Liniker wrote: »
    I don't own a smartphone, don't want a smartphone, and don't need a smartphone.

    I think you are confused, this thread is about Phone Number verification, and it Should be mandatory.

    You don't need a smartphone with internet access to have a phone number and get texts, now, if you gonna argue in favor of those people that don't have a phone number...

    that's the 0.1% of the playerbase, those with tinfoil hats that probably also don't use internet and think video games are evil.

    nothing tinfoil for those who dont want a phone number. Technically I dont have a phone number. I am using an old land line phone number from an old job I had. I tied that to a google number and ever since then, I stopped paying a phone bill. Nothing tinfoil hat with avoiding a $100+ phone bill on some shitty carrier.

    Google Number + Wifi gets you access to almost anywhere in a city. I live in a major city. guess what, I saved ~$10,000 since switching over to ~progressive~ VOIP. But I've been equally screwed on some stuff / sign ups when they want to verify via phone. ("US Bank", ChatGPT to name something recent) and certain discords servers that requires phone verifications access. I think it's fucking stupid. I didn't pay $500+ on kickstarter to then get locked out of a game.
    {UPK} United Player Killer - All your loot belongs to us.
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    LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited March 2023
    novercalis wrote: »
    nothing tinfoil for those who dont want a phone number. Technically I dont have a phone number. I am using an old land line phone number from an old job I had. I tied that to a google number and ever since then, I stopped paying a phone bill.

    so... you do have a phone number.... from google....

    I have like 3 burner sim cards that I never, ever paid, ordered from free and just didn't pick a plan.... can still receive texts and calls...

    so what's the issue here why would you get locked out of a game? Phone Number verification means they will send you a Text with a code and you need an active number to receive it, that's literally it

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    NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Liniker wrote: »
    novercalis wrote: »
    nothing tinfoil for those who dont want a phone number. Technically I dont have a phone number. I am using an old land line phone number from an old job I had. I tied that to a google number and ever since then, I stopped paying a phone bill.

    so... you do have a phone number.... from google....

    I have like 3 burner sim cards that I never, ever paid, ordered from free and just didn't pick a plan.... can still receive texts and calls...

    so what's the issue here why would you get locked out of a game? Phone Number verification means they will send you a Text with a code and you need an active number to receive it, that's literally it

    Wait, so, what's the point of this then?

    And dont say account security.
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    LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited March 2023
    Noaani wrote: »

    Wait, so, what's the point of this then?

    And dont say account security.

    Anti-cheats in games don't stop cheaters either, IP bans don't stop cheaters, your front door lock only stops honest people from coming inside - still, better than nothing

    that's the point.... you make it harder, even if it's just inconvenient, that's enough to stop Some percentage of the problem

    having to get a phone number is enough to stop Some people from just making a bunch of alt accounts, that's better than nothing

    combine that with active GMs, the anti-cheat, a good flagging system for suspicious activities, and with everything combined you are reducing the amounts of gold sellers/hackers in the game
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    SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I loved the dev responses to the ddos attacks in a1. I have no issues or concerns.
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    NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Liniker wrote: »
    still, better than nothing
    Is it though?

    If the method to get around it costs a fraction of the resources it took to implement, I would argue that doing nothing would have been better. Doing nothing means you can then allocate those resources (time, money etc) somewhere better.

    You are right in that a front door lock only keeps honest people out -I haven't locked my front door for 20+ years, don't even know where the key is. I do, however, have some lockpicks.

    The thing with the argument of "this thing will only keep honest people out" is that it just doesn't make any sense at all. Honest people aren't walking up to your door, attempting to open it, realizing it's locked and walking away because they are honest. They aren't even getting to your door. Those that try to open your door are already the dishonest ones - and a lock isn't going to stop them.

    Same with this 2fa. It isn't going to stop anyone that actually would be dishonest in some manner. It also isn't going to stop people that be dishonest in some manner, because they obviously weren't going to in the first place.

    Having anti-cheat is essential. You need only look at Escape from Tarkov over the last week or so to understand that. However, having a 2fa system in place that takes actual seconds to circumvent simply isn't worth the resources.

    Having it as an option for people that find it comforting is fine - good even. That should be the limit.
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    LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited March 2023
    Noaani wrote: »
    Having anti-cheat is essential. You need only look at Escape from Tarkov over the last week or so to understand that. However, having a 2fa system in place that takes actual seconds to circumvent simply isn't worth the resources.

    There are plenty, plenty of games that have anti cheat, as a matter of fact the same anti cheat that we will have in AoC, EAC, games like Rust

    and they are full of cheaters, same as tarkov or any other FPS game, the only people that are surprised with this tarkov drama is people that were not informed on this subject

    anti cheats only prevent most of the ""honest"" players that get afraid to get caught

    yet, you agree they are essential, i make the same argument for phone numbers
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    CawwCaww Member
    No thank you... not gonna get into it, but just no thank you
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    novercalisnovercalis Member, Founder, Kickstarter
    Liniker wrote: »
    novercalis wrote: »
    nothing tinfoil for those who dont want a phone number. Technically I dont have a phone number. I am using an old land line phone number from an old job I had. I tied that to a google number and ever since then, I stopped paying a phone bill.

    so... you do have a phone number.... from google....

    I have like 3 burner sim cards that I never, ever paid, ordered from free and just didn't pick a plan.... can still receive texts and calls...

    so what's the issue here why would you get locked out of a game? Phone Number verification means they will send you a Text with a code and you need an active number to receive it, that's literally it

    I don't tho. A google phone number isnt recognized everywhere. They have assigned me a VOIP number. Many phone verifications do not accept VOIP numbers. They only recognize carrier numbers.
    {UPK} United Player Killer - All your loot belongs to us.
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    NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Liniker wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    Having anti-cheat is essential. You need only look at Escape from Tarkov over the last week or so to understand that. However, having a 2fa system in place that takes actual seconds to circumvent simply isn't worth the resources.

    There are plenty, plenty of games that have anti cheat, as a matter of fact the same anti cheat that we will have in AoC, EAC, games like Rust

    and they are full of cheaters, same as tarkov or any other FPS game, the only people that are surprised with this tarkov drama is people that were not informed on this subject

    anti cheats only prevent most of the ""honest"" players that get afraid to get caught

    yet, you agree they are essential, i make the same argument for phone numbers

    The difference is - anti-cheat software causes a statistically significant drop in the number of people cheating. Anti-cheat software isn't perfect, but it does create a moving target. A cheat that was able to get past yesterday may not be able to get past tomorrow.

    2fa does not. It is static, it does not and can not move. Since numbers can be obtained in bulk, those few seconds that it takes to get one can actually be used to get hundreds of numbers - essentially a perpetual cheater can circumvent 2fa in seconds, and that will last them as long as they want it to.
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    NerrorNerror Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited March 2023
    I don't really see 2FA as a way to stop cheaters. Making it mandatory doesn't really do much in that regard.

    However, it's an extra layer of security for my account that I wouldn't mind. I already use 2FA on this account, but being able to use a phone number as a sort of alternate or backup 2FA, or even in addition to it (3FA?) for some things like account management, would be cool. Keep it optional though.
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    NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Nerror wrote: »
    However, it's an extra layer of security for my account that I wouldn't mind.
    See, this is a reason I agree with.

    It isn't really about your account being more secure, it is about feeling that your account is more secure.

    Having opt in 2fa is great for that, and should be an option with every online subscription. However, it's the opt in part that is key.
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    2FA cant stop cheaters. 2FA is only good if someone "normal" knows your password. they wont be able to log in and steal your stuff.
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    NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Depraved wrote: »
    2FA cant stop cheaters. 2FA is only good if someone "normal" knows your password. they wont be able to log in and steal your stuff.

    Yeah, basically this.

    It also isnt great as account security from someone that knows what they are doing.

    Anyone that can "hack" your username and password can also bypass 2fa. However, someone less savvy - or normal, as you say - could well know that information but still not be able to bypass 2fa.

    As such, 2fa has a place, but that place is as an opt in thing, not a requirement.
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    FantmxFantmx Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    I like the idea for keeping bots away but I at times have more than one account for roleplay or sinister reasons. This would take that away.
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