Dead on arrival when...

... this game tries to sell us, daylie quests is content and fun. Or login rewards.

What else?

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I ran so many thousands of failies in Guild Wars 2 and EVE Online through the years, did some in WoW too... I can't even think about dailies anymore.

In EVE Online I have roughly 130 characters... I did the daily logon challenge a few times...oh boy...

bloodprophet

This is from a while back.
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/48009/dev-discussion-26-login-rewards/p1

The community was then and most likely still is very strongly against such things as login, daily and weekly stuff.
There are several threads over the years crapping on the ideas.

At one point even Steven himself stated he was against the idea.
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/33123/i-agree-with-steven-daily-quests-log-in-rewards-often-become-chores

Noaani

So, obviously the OP is asking us what it would take for us to each consider Ashes to be dead on arrival. The OP's opinion is that if the game is heavy on daily quests and such.

To me, there is no single soundbite type statement that would signify the game being dead on arrival, as I would assess the game on the total sum of it's parts. It can have pieces that I don't like, as long as it has enough pieces that I do like.

Well, I guess that does lead to a soundbite type response...

Ashes would be dead on arrival if - when released - I decide it isn't good enough to bother with.

Mag7spy

If i lose to @NiKr in a 1v1 pvp fight.

Nerror

If they fail to aggressively combat cheating in all its forms. I don't expect them to catch 100%, but I expect them to have a dedicated anti-cheat team working on it while the game is live. Not just act reactively.

Spif

If the bots and gold sellers can get a solid foothold?

They're going to be working on stuff quietly during alpha 2, so it'll take full release to really see what happens

Terrifying_Truth

worst case scenario is cheating, there's literally people flying in New World right now

Gospell1

Nerror wrote: »

If they fail to aggressively combat cheating in all its forms. I don't expect them to catch 100%, but I expect them to have a dedicated anti-cheat team working on it while the game is live. Not just act reactively.

that's how I stopped playing new world. I improved my skills for a long time, and then I mined resources for a very long time, there was just terrible competition in ore mining. As a result, I was able to craft cool armor for myself and after a couple of days the server was duped, and then again and again, the market was just full of cheap resources.
But it didn't stop there, literally every day there were new ways to cheat in the game. In the end, I just left the game, it's not very nice to play a game with a crowd of cheaters

Leonerdo

The game will live and die by it's "PvX" balance. If there's no reason for a PvE player to run caravans, or if PvP is so rampant that you can't farm anything without a squad to back you up, the game will fall flat. Doesn't matter which direction it tips. The entire premise of the game doesn't work unless both sides exist in harmony.

It doesn't have to be a perfect balance, but as soon as one side takes over, the game becomes just another generic open-world RPG or battle royale.

It would also suck if the PvE is mostly filler tasks, that just serve as a mandatory time-sink between PvP fights.

Something about the context of good PvE/worldbuilding that gives meaning to the PvP, and large-scale PvP adding hype and payoff to the PvE. Trying not to rant, so I'll leave it at that.

Arya_Yeshe

Biggest worry:

cheating

Minor worry:

not enough player drive content

Xnate13X

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

Biggest worry:
cheating

Minor worry:
not enough player drive content

My only worry: Joining a high pop server day 1 to then find out 3 weeks later that it's become a low pop server. Thus making me need to pay more money to server xfer and get into a high pop again. =.= Everyone should get x1 free server xfer accessible at any point in time if the first server joined on their account population drops by 1 pop tier for a full 7 days.

Ludullu

Xnate13X wrote: »

My only worry: Joining a high pop server day 1 to then find out 3 weeks later that it's become a low pop server. Thus making me need to pay more money to server xfer and get into a high pop again. =.= Everyone should get x1 free server xfer accessible at any point in time if the first server joined on their account population drops by 1 pop tier for a full 7 days.

There are no server transfers
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Server_transfers

Vaknar

bloodprophet wrote: »

This is from a while back.
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/48009/dev-discussion-26-login-rewards/p1

Nice drop on that Dev Discussion! That was also my first thought when I read the OP

Spif

NiKr wrote: »

Xnate13X wrote: »

My only worry: Joining a high pop server day 1 to then find out 3 weeks later that it's become a low pop server. Thus making me need to pay more money to server xfer and get into a high pop again. =.= Everyone should get x1 free server xfer accessible at any point in time if the first server joined on their account population drops by 1 pop tier for a full 7 days.

There are no server transfers
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Server_transfers

It says:
Server transfers, outside of server merges, will not be possible initially.[1][2]

Initially is nicely vague. But IMO any transfer policy is going to be shredded by anything other than a stellar launch. I could write a lot about launches I've seen in the past couple decades, and strategies that could help, but that's for a different thread

Server transfers where you are only allowed to take equipped items with you might not be that disruptive.

Ludullu

Spif wrote: »

Server transfers where you are only allowed to take equipped items with you might not be that disruptive.

Top gear is supposed to be rare and limited in availability because of how nodes will work, so what your server had might not exist on other servers, but there might be a chance that it counters whatever gear they do have. And now you've pretty much paid your way to more power.

I'm sure they'll implement transfers sooner or later because I'm more than sure that people will whine and complain about it the whole time, but I do hope they don't implement it.

Azherae

I think for me it'll be dead on arrival for a picky reason.

If most of what we're moving around and using to make gold are 'Hunting Certificates' and not actual crafting materials.

It just doesn't work for me, I think. I tolerate it, but I never like the games that work like this. Even today I was just blown away by rethinking just how many items BDO contains that are part of their trading system and bartering systems and are put into the game files and yet not a single one of them drops from any mob anywhere even randomly.

Not their style, I guess. I'm just sick of 'trash loot' and artificial systems, and I keep expecting MMOs to just not do this, but it seems to keep going.

Ludullu

Azherae wrote: »

If most of what we're moving around and using to make gold are 'Hunting Certificates' and not actual crafting materials.

I think SWG was good about this and L2 was too, so I definitely hope they combine those two and make a good system. Definitely hate trash drops. Especially cause they usually ruin owpvp for spots, because those spots become kinda useless due to "gold" being farmable anywhere you want.

Azherae

NiKr wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

If most of what we're moving around and using to make gold are 'Hunting Certificates' and not actual crafting materials.

I think SWG was good about this and L2 was too, so I definitely hope they combine those two and make a good system. Definitely hate trash drops. Especially cause they usually ruin owpvp for spots, because those spots become kinda useless due to "gold" being farmable anywhere you want.

Yeah I had a rage moment today when I thought about it. Why don't I ever end up getting proper PvP in BDO? Because the only place anyone wants to be is the top earning areas, and it isn't in the best interest of even players who are at the same 'rotation' in the lower areas to fight each other.

But that's why that game has Season Servers, so whatever, I guess.

I guess their jank economy would collapse if something in the world other than a boss were to drop an Emerald or something.

Ludullu

Azherae wrote: »

I guess their jank economy would collapse if something in the world other than a boss were to drop an Emerald or something.

Yeah, to me, the beauty of L2's loot tables came from mobs dropping the same stuff as bosses (except for epic jewelry), but at lower rates. And with the game being centered around a ton of grind, you'd get your crafting mats sooner or later (and super rare full drops, which were just pure dopamine straight into the brain). And bosses would just speed up the process a bit.

But later on it all devolved into instanced content with unique drops as well

I still blame WoW for its insane success, which made pretty much every damn exec out there tell their devs "do the same thing or you're not getting any money".

akabear

NiKr wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

I guess their jank economy would collapse if something in the world other than a boss were to drop an Emerald or something.

Yeah, to me, the beauty of L2's loot tables came from mobs dropping the same stuff as bosses (except for epic jewelry), but at lower rates. And with the game being centered around a ton of grind, you'd get your crafting mats sooner or later (and super rare full drops, which were just pure dopamine straight into the brain). And bosses would just speed up the process a bit.

But later on it all devolved into instanced content with unique drops as well I still blame WoW for its insane success, which made pretty much every damn exec out there tell their devs "do the same thing or you're not getting any money".

I never forget the day I received a recipe of a weapon that was not currently known anywhere on any loot tables across all servers.. and then to be useful, a crafter needed a second copy to make it craftable!
Made me a lot of coin!

Those rare drops by grinding were great!

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