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Dunzenkell invented the crossbows according to the lore. Now what?

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Comments

  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited April 2023
    Zeitlos wrote: »
    Solvryn wrote: »
    No one escapes disaster and magically has amnesia. Whether it been the Dwarves that made it to Sanctus or the Dwarves who would genetically contribute to who would later become the Tulnar.

    Someone has a crossbow, the knowledge to create schematics to create a crossbow. People are going to try to preserve their culture.

    There is nothing magical about societal collapse and millenia long dark ages. Knowledge and technology is lost because the people/resources/records required to produce and pass along the technology have been lost.

    And where are you getting this "genetic transference" bit?

    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Tulnar

    You'll take note that all of my points came from the lore and Steven himself.

    Tulnar are a culmination of all of the four major races plus the minor ones, with a functioning class system and religion when they preserved from their ancestors. It's indicative that the four major races were able to save a lot of their culture.

    They have highly intelligent children (see The Alchemists Apprentice), so they didn't magically gain that from being down underground for a long time. That stayed with them because their ancestors preserved it.

    There's zero reason to believe that the Dwarves nor the Tulnar cannot make crossbows.

    Also theres another question to pose.

    How the hell are either dwarf ethnicities supposed to use a longbow? They're both too damn short and don't have long enough arms for the draw.
  • ZeitlosZeitlos Member, Alpha Two
    Solvryn wrote: »
    Zeitlos wrote: »
    Solvryn wrote: »
    No one escapes disaster and magically has amnesia. Whether it been the Dwarves that made it to Sanctus or the Dwarves who would genetically contribute to who would later become the Tulnar.

    Someone has a crossbow, the knowledge to create schematics to create a crossbow. People are going to try to preserve their culture.

    There is nothing magical about societal collapse and millenia long dark ages. Knowledge and technology is lost because the people/resources/records required to produce and pass along the technology have been lost.

    And where are you getting this "genetic transference" bit?

    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Tulnar

    You'll take note that all of my points came from the lore and Steven himself.

    Tulnar are a culmination of all of the four major races plus the minor ones, with a functioning class system and religion when they preserved from their ancestors. It's indicative that the four major races were able to save a lot of their culture.

    They have highly intelligent children (see The Alchemists Apprentice), so they didn't magically gain that from being down underground for a long time. That stayed with them because their ancestors preserved it.

    There's zero reason to believe that the Dwarves nor the Tulnar cannot make crossbows.

    The lore references one person and their family having the ability to readily ingest what most consider inedible or deadly, that is a far shot from being a ubiquitous Tulnar trait. I also see nothing indicating the artiface skill you referred to.

    And again, there is nothing "magical" about thousands of years of evolution allowing for some members of the species to have predilection for alchemy based on the genetic capabilities associated with the subspecies their ancestors melded with.

    There is absolutely reason to believe crossbow technology was unavailable to both sides, as referenced in the previous posts.
    Also theres another question to pose.

    How the hell are either dwarf ethnicities supposed to use a longbow? They're both too damn short and don't have long enough arms for the draw.

    That's just you own biases showing through. A "longbow" and "shortbow" are going to vary depending on species it is designed for. Longbow are traditionally made based on the height of the user. So Dunir longbow will be shorter than Kaelar longbow, which will be shorter than Ren'kai longbows.
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Zeitlos wrote: »
    Solvryn wrote: »
    Zeitlos wrote: »
    Solvryn wrote: »
    No one escapes disaster and magically has amnesia. Whether it been the Dwarves that made it to Sanctus or the Dwarves who would genetically contribute to who would later become the Tulnar.

    Someone has a crossbow, the knowledge to create schematics to create a crossbow. People are going to try to preserve their culture.

    There is nothing magical about societal collapse and millenia long dark ages. Knowledge and technology is lost because the people/resources/records required to produce and pass along the technology have been lost.

    And where are you getting this "genetic transference" bit?

    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Tulnar

    You'll take note that all of my points came from the lore and Steven himself.

    Tulnar are a culmination of all of the four major races plus the minor ones, with a functioning class system and religion when they preserved from their ancestors. It's indicative that the four major races were able to save a lot of their culture.

    They have highly intelligent children (see The Alchemists Apprentice), so they didn't magically gain that from being down underground for a long time. That stayed with them because their ancestors preserved it.

    There's zero reason to believe that the Dwarves nor the Tulnar cannot make crossbows.

    The lore references one person and their family having the ability to readily ingest what most consider inedible or deadly, that is a far shot from being a ubiquitous Tulnar trait. I also see nothing indicating the artiface skill you referred to.

    And again, there is nothing "magical" about thousands of years of evolution allowing for some members of the species to have predilection for alchemy based on the genetic capabilities associated with the subspecies their ancestors melded with.

    There is absolutely reason to believe crossbow technology was unavailable to both sides, as referenced in the previous posts.
    Also theres another question to pose.

    How the hell are either dwarf ethnicities supposed to use a longbow? They're both too damn short and don't have long enough arms for the draw.

    That's just you own biases showing through. A "longbow" and "shortbow" are going to vary depending on species it is designed for. Longbow are traditionally made based on the height of the user. So Dunir longbow will be shorter than Kaelar longbow, which will be shorter than Ren'kai longbows.

    The lore references a post return to Sanctus of a Tulnar child being an apprentice of a Vek Alchemist. She's 5 and brilliant, meaning she has a high capacity to learn. Making her intelligent, which suggest something about Tulnar.

    Crossbow technology would be lost, but Thogli has demonstrated that Dwarves had it already, I highly doubt that just crossbows would be lost.

    It's also clear by the lore that the races were able to hold onto their culture to a degree. Or else Tulnar would not have a religion based off of the four major races and the minor races, it's more probable that those traditions were written down.

    I highly doubt that Dwarves weren't able to bring a single crossbow or schematic down into the Underrrealm or into Sanctus, in respect to what little lore we have.

    The reason crossbows got nixed because they were an internal "stretch goal", but people actually like crossbows, so they're going to be vocal about it as a way to persuade Steven to just put the things in the game.

    I'm not sure what the "biases" comment is for, as it's irrelevant to the conversation a piece of gear will be able to be traded across any character and will scale to size. But from a lore perspective a Ren'Kai longbow would never scale down to a Dwarf size-not-longbow.

    Because a longbow has to be long in order to achieve the shape and energy needed to project an arrow. Dwarves "longbows" would be shorter than taller races short-bows.

    It's not a longbow if it Dwarf sized.

  • AustrinautAustrinaut Member, Alpha Two
    "Somehow, Palpatine forgot."
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    fx2yi5v2kdsf.png

    Tulnar would have most def preserved the knowledge of the Crossbow.
  • Thoghli RamheartThoghli Ramheart Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    That is an interesting and unique find. I wonder what the response is going to be to this comment? :)
    fljhvwgjy3ny.png
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Thoghli Ramheart wrote: »
    That is an interesting and unique find. I wonder what the response is going to be to this comment? :)

    Probably the part where crossbows are gud, tying abilities to weapons is going to create some real lame metas.
  • Core4891Core4891 Member
    If I was the developer I would add a lore text that says that crossbows were banned at a Convention after a Great War.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Or just retcon the lore - it's not like its canon until there is a released product anyway.
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Core4891 wrote: »
    If I was the developer I would add a lore text that says that crossbows were banned at a Convention after a Great War.

    Or just rethink tying weapons to combat abilities and add more freedom to the system.

  • VeeshanVeeshan Member, Alpha Two
    but they still can! as an ingame quest event were one path leads to unlocking crossbows on ur servers or a different weapon depending on the path you go down :P just after release :P
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Veeshan wrote: »
    but they still can! as an ingame quest event were one path leads to unlocking crossbows on ur servers or a different weapon depending on the path you go down :P just after release :P

    I think people should really take a break if they feel that starved for an MMO.

    That is not healthy.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    edited April 2023
    Am I actually seeing a argument that its in lore so developers need to add it in game day one and playable?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZfqaW5klpg
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Am I actually seeing a argument that its in lore so developers need to add it in game day one and playable?

    Makes for another combat argument on a separate thread too.

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