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Do all armor sets have racial appearance and should they?
Kilion
Member
As always the primary source to look at for this discussion is the Wiki on Racial weapons and armor
Introduction
Quote from the source: "Let's say for example you have the Eagle set or something, right: The Eagle set has in art, it has a thematic design that's going to include certain attachments to the armor. It's going to include color palette and theme. It's going to have some aspects to it that define it as the Eagle set, right. When a Elf wears the Eagle set or when an Orc wears the Eagle set, you obviously have two different cultures there; and you don't want to stomp out that culture by assigning a de facto 'This is the Eagle set and this is how it looks on everybody.' What we want to have is cultural influences play a role in showing how that set looks." - Steven Sharif
So as written in the quote we have a fairly straight forward answer to what seems to be the current intent, which is to offer a racial appearance for all armor sets. This however raised a few questions on my end and I hope to get a discussion going regarding that or just simply finding the answers to them as they might be somewhere I haven't looked yet.
The main topic
There are factions (of which we can find/craft armor sets) clearly associated with a specific culture or race, let's take as an example the Oakenbane Keep which is the former academy of the Aelan Empire that we have seen during the tank showcase. This specific zone is associated with the Aelans Empire and the Aelans are split into the two races of Kaelan and Vaelune humans. As such it would make sense that even if a Dwarf were to join the ranks of the military academy and get an armor set the displayed alignment in my opinion would logically still remain that of human origin.
In light of the fact that crafted armor will tend to be better than quest reward gear and drops (in most cases): Should racial appearance be primarily associated with crafted armor as a visual sign of it being better (because it has been adjusted to the one wearing it)? Of course I am aware this is mainly a question for race associated armor sets.
And on a more general note: Would you want to be able to at some point be able to wear armor in another races style?
The answer is probably >>> HERE <<<
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Comments
I read on the Wiki - "Cosmetics can be used by all races but there may be slight variations to make them work with the body builds of each race." So even cosmetics will adjust to the race of the wearer, which I guess is an indicator how it will be with gear overall - not the producer decides the cultural style of the gear, the wearer does when they create their character in the beginning of the game.
And a quote from Steven on gear and cosmetics: "You can target a player. You're going to see what type of armor they have based on a buff they have available to them because obviously cosmetics can change appearance. You might have different silhouettes as a result of that.".
We might be able to find these symbols already in the UI livestream. But I would hope that - maybe a bit like in WoW - you cannot transmog any kind of skin on any kind of armor. Having a cloth character skin a plate armor onto their robe would definitely affect PvP a lot for the worse. With that being said, I found this on crafted gear:
- Crafters will be able to assign different skills/abilities and stats on gear.
- Master crafters will be able to influence several (but not all) stats on their crafted items.
So beyond the fact that heavy armor has primarily physical resistances, light armor offering magic resistance and medium offering a bit of both, you might not be able to tell too much based off the original armor anyways.
As for the icon that shows the gear - unless it's always visible, it's useless. Ain't nobody got time to click on 8 different people during a super fast party pvp encounter just to figure out who's wearing what.
Though again, if the first point turns out to have 0 limits - this feature will be kinda pointless as well
I think the limitations will be basically set by the armor type and the material characteristic. e.g. when crafting a heavy red dragon scale armor, even a master artisan won't be allowed to switch the characteristic fire resistance to water resistance or so. But he might be able to select whether that gear has a strength, endurance, intelligence or wisdom bonus. And secondary stats like armor penetration and critical hit chance might not be options one can choose on heavy armor, just like most elemental resistances (with the characteristic of the material used being the exception).
I hope they will be testing the effects of cosmetics on PvP in A2 or it could become quite messy indeed.
True, but knowing what is currently popular or easily available in the market could also provide that information which is definitely an argument people will make.
Don't get me wrong: I think that it still would be the best and most useful way to just see the original gear someone is wearing - it might make sense to turn off cosmetics during planned PvP situations (like a siege or during a guild war) for enemies.
With that being said: Racial gear adjustment doesn't change material texture or color pattern of a set, so the core characteristic of each set is said to be untouched by those adjustments.
The point of my post however was: Does it really make sense to have an Orc or Dwarf race appearance on a gear set that comes from a clearly Aelan factions?
This is a fanmade set afaik, but it demonstrates the point well and works how other sets worked. The base style is particular, but it looks different on different races and char types (L2 had inherent split into fighter and magic classes).
Or did you copy/paste that from a previous thread?
Sorry, I'm not sure what you are getting at in the context of what I was asking about
Would you mind wording it differently?
Technically we do not. They haven't addressed it directly, only indirectly, and ignore clarifying questions about it rather than referring to a wiki quote or page like they normally do when they 'think the answer has been answered/obvious'. Probably because if they answer that question but not the freehold cosmetic questions it'll just bring more negative attention.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yhr9WpjaDzw
I am unable how to interpret in any other way than confirmation that costumes (aka, store bought full body character cosmetics) do not need to adhere to armor types.
Edit to add; it may well be that in game cosmetics require specific armor types, but we know costumes do not and so that point is moot imo.
And again, whenever I and a few others have asked about if they /would/ require restrictions, they did not tend to point to that quote when it gets asked, they ignored them (in the Q&A.)
I encourage others to read https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Cosmetics for themselves as their cosmetic system is full of holes if you pay attention to their wording and phrasing.
Edit to respond to your edit: 'kinda'. But ultimately it's a (valid) assumption based on current data. I would rather they just give clear cut answers and therefore am in a position where I cannot assume.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yhr9WpjaDzw
While this is true (I did say we dont know how in game cosmetics will function), in this discussion it doesnt matter.
What we know is that costumes purchased from the store are able to be placed on your character regardless of what armor type you are using. Since the question was wether or not people will be able to have the appearance of a different armor type to what they are wearing, we know that this is a possible scenario.
While they may not have confirmed that recently, that doesnt mean we should assume that means it has changed. Rather, we should assume it means they dont want to get in to a habit of having to periodically confirm things they have talked about in the past.
The issue of this being a paid for advantage is yet to be addressed. I can think of ways to address it, so it isnt as if it is impossible. It is just a case of Intrepid needing to dedicate time to deciding what to do, and at this stage it is a low priority.
Side note - If you've thoroughly read through a wiki page, and you can't find the answer to a question, be sure it bring it to the monthly Q&A
Thanks a bunch! I'm glad my efforts to not ask stupid questions and provide sufficient context to them actually pays off
I'll see to it!
For example a dwarf could craft elven armors and weapons if the dwarf is living in an elven node but could learn different racial crafting styles when moving into another race's node (possible crafting quests to learn new styles?).
Maybe crafters could move around and collect different styles from different nodes. The catch could be that if you want new styles for higher tier items you should get them from crafting quests that are only available in higher level nodes and it could be sometimes hard or easy task depending on the political situations between nodes at that moment.
Of course the crafters from high level nodes could visit their vassal nodes and get new styles for some items depending on what is the level of the vassal node. So basically the higher the level of crafting quest, the higher tier styles can be unlocked.
The players should think when and where to settle down. We just have to let fate decide how everything is going to work out.
The main point that doesn't make sense to me that we suddenly find orc-style Oakenbane armor, when this group from a lore perspective seems to be exclusively human. Which is why I wonder whether dropped gear of such a faction should basically have the race adjustment "turned off".
It would make more sense from a lore perspective and also adds an interesting element to PvP because seeing an Orc in a Oakenbane armor "Aelan style" means the gear is not best in slot - hence an easy kill to reduce the numbers of opponents. Which in turn increases the incentives for PvE & crafting.
To me that also supports the cycle of "PvE activity creates incentives for PvP, while PvP activity creates incentives for PvE", which seems to be the driving engine for change and progress in Ashes.
I don't really see the connection between cosmetics and cultural gear right now. I realise the cosmetics have fragrant words associated with racial culture but I also feel you should not really tamper with these racial associations.
I was peaked by the idea that one can learn multiple racial styles and apply them to any crafted piece. Thus, negating the need fir transmog or cosmetic onesies.
I particularly love delving into dungeons for long nights to get cultural pieces and cultural recipes. Perhaps even rare cultural dyes too. I think the thread idea has potential but I also would love to delve deep in dungeons linked to specific nodes/cultures.