Will the lore of Ashes of Creation be Grimdark?

I found myself enjoying stories far more when fantasy universes have a more Grimdark feel to it.
• Will some main/side quests have a more darker tone to it?
• Is Ashes of Creation going to explore and show us, how depressing it can be living in an fantasy world, where the possibility of getting killed by a group of goblins, humans or even undead which resurrect on your long lost family's grave after you dropped of some flowers?
• Possibility of an expansions where the Villains of the story get the upperhand and sets the world of Verra into hell?

I am not expecting the entire story to be dark.

Thanks for answering in advance.

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Solvryn

I wish

Nerror

I hope we get that side of it too. So far I don't really get that feeling, but the potential is there.

daveywavey

The story is about evil gods wreaking carnage on all of life. It's not going to be about fluffy puppies. I have hope for a chunky and engaging storyline.

JamesSunderland

I do hope so.

Nerror

daveywavey wrote: »

The story is about evil gods wreaking carnage on all of life. It's not going to be about fluffy puppies. I have hope for a chunky and engaging storyline.

My worry is they'll focus too much on the players being the heroes in a good vs. evil story. I would like to see more shades of grey for sure. Maybe even fifty of them.

Dark and morally ambiguous quest lines, if not outright siding with the Others, should be present too.

Gizban

If I want dark and depressing I'll watch the news.

Arya_Yeshe

AoC is rainbow farts, lolipops and unicorns, if something darker comes up it could bring a cool contrast

Nerror

pyreal wrote: »

If I want dark and depressing I'll watch the news.

True, there is that. Sometimes a simple good vs. evil setting is nice to escape in.

Tyranthraxus

The Tower of Carphin reveal should be enough proof that there will certainly be "darker" quests.

This is a world of tragedy that had been struck by a literal armageddon and is still plagued by the Ancients' residual Corruption. In addition, any attempt to re-settle Verra would be an affront to the Ancients; We've already seen an Ancient-boss, and they are NOT peaceful, flowery people/entities.

Marcet

You can't just do part of the game "grimdark" and the rest fluffy high fantasy. It requires very strong world building and coherence to pull off decent grimdark. But I guess its trendy now....

Nerror

Tyranthraxus wrote: »

The Tower of Carphin reveal should be enough proof that there will certainly be "darker" quests.

This is a world of tragedy that had been struck by a literal armageddon and is still plagued by the Ancients' residual Corruption. In addition, any attempt to re-settle Verra would be an affront to the Ancients; We've already seen an Ancient-boss, and they are NOT peaceful, flowery people/entities.

Dark in setting, yes, absolutely, but grimdark means dystopian, amoral, and violent. If the quest is just about good vanquishing evil, then that's not really a very dark quest no matter how dark the setting is. Certainly not grimdark. If the players have the option to help the evil for personal gain, now we're starting to talk more grimdarky. Especially if that affects the server history going forward, where more blood-magic is let loose on the world.

I would love to see the main questline in the Tower of Carphin have the players chose between 2 outcomes. The "evil" outcome rewards the players with unlocking the blood school augments and the "good" outcome rewards the players with whatever augment school opposes that in the lore. Whatever the majority of players choose the first time the event is run is what affects the server in all eternity.

Kilion

I don't think there is a lot of evidence that this will be a grimdark fantasy world.
From all I have read and heard so far the world is surely been the place of unimaginable slaughter and violence during the Harbinger Apocalypse and the Others have a brutal and lovecraftian touch that would make the content around them lean in that direction but from a perspective of lore there is a "problem" (for the grimdark expectation): The Others have lost.

The game takes place exactly because The Others and the corruption have lost out against the seven gods and we are stepping into a world that has just recently healed from the wounds of the force that could have made this game primarily "dystopian, amoral, and violent". Furthermore, having lost the war it leaves the faction of The Others in a weakened state in a place that is not scope of the game (The Void).

This leads me to the conclusion that while we will be seeing grimdark-themed pockets (corrupted landscapes & questlines around The Others), the majority of the game will be adventure and war event high fantasy.

Edit: Maybe at some point we will have access to the Void for some reason, but I would expect that to be only a consideration after several expansions have been already released.

JustVine

Nerror wrote: »

Tyranthraxus wrote: »

The Tower of Carphin reveal should be enough proof that there will certainly be "darker" quests.

This is a world of tragedy that had been struck by a literal armageddon and is still plagued by the Ancients' residual Corruption. In addition, any attempt to re-settle Verra would be an affront to the Ancients; We've already seen an Ancient-boss, and they are NOT peaceful, flowery people/entities.

Dark in setting, yes, absolutely, but grimdark means dystopian, amoral, and violent. If the quest is just about good vanquishing evil, then that's not really a very dark quest no matter how dark the setting is. Certainly not grimdark. If the players have the option to help the evil for personal gain, now we're starting to talk more grimdarky. Especially if that affects the server history going forward, where more blood-magic is let loose on the world.

I would love to see the main questline in the Tower of Carphin have the players chose between 2 outcomes. The "evil" outcome rewards the players with unlocking the blood school augments and the "good" outcome rewards the players with whatever augment school opposes that in the lore. Whatever the majority of players choose the first time the event is run is what affects the server in all eternity.

That will be a thing though. If not a main quest certainly a religious one. Remember they plan on having 'dark' (presumably evil given what Steven says in the quote) options in their religion system. https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Religions

The system you are describing of players, interacting with the world for selfish and corrupt reasons isn't just fluff. It has always been a core design principle for Steven.

You have a world with racism, genocide, and slavery in their lore and rp. They even have a mechanic there you can have goblins enslave/capture players. You can almost certainly find ways to get players captured by goblins for fun.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/The_Ancients (dont read if you avoid lore spoilers)
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Goblin_Slaver

You are somewhat encouraged to k.o.s. people of other races than you in your node to prevent your racial architecture changing and help unlock racial quests.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Races#Racial_influence_on_node_layout_and_style

You can help hinder players from purifying corrupting poi's to weaken or overwhelm your rivals.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Corrupted_areas
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Corrupted_Essence

And of course, you can go on quests to help your evil deity as previously mentioned.

The game is already grimdark both in lore, rp, and mechanics.

Solvryn

I think this thread needs to be further entertained.

Kilion

Solvryn wrote: »

I think this thread needs to be further entertained.

I would wonder to what end. Let me quickly find the quote.

From the recent Q&A: " [Question:] How far are you willing to go in response to player feedback on core systems? For example there is a huge outcry at launch to have more instanced dungeons and raids, is that something you would address or would you stand firm on the more open world aspect?[Answer:][...] Player feedback is important, however the identity and the vision of the game is not up for discussion. And so when we talk about the core systems, tenets, and philosophies behind what the game that we're trying to make is, we believe that the game we are trying to make resonates with a large enough section of the MMORPG player base that it is a sustainable and profitable venture for us to create that core game. [...]"

I think this includes the art style and story telling. There are grimdark elements but I think there are a lot of elements in the showcase that indicate to me that this will not be a "full" grimdark game - and as Steven said in the interview, that design decision is in all likelihood not part of what the community can influence.

Solvryn

Kilion wrote: »

Solvryn wrote: »

I think this thread needs to be further entertained.

I would wonder to what end. Let me quickly find the quote.

From the recent Q&A: " [Question:] How far are you willing to go in response to player feedback on core systems? For example there is a huge outcry at launch to have more instanced dungeons and raids, is that something you would address or would you stand firm on the more open world aspect?[Answer:][...] Player feedback is important, however the identity and the vision of the game is not up for discussion. And so when we talk about the core systems, tenets, and philosophies behind what the game that we're trying to make is, we believe that the game we are trying to make resonates with a large enough section of the MMORPG player base that it is a sustainable and profitable venture for us to create that core game. [...]"

I think this includes the art style and story telling. There are grimdark elements but I think there are a lot of elements in the showcase that indicate to me that this will not be a "full" grimdark game - and as Steven said in the interview, that design decision is in all likelihood not part of what the community can influence.

Exploring ideas was never going to influence the game. The things the Sandal Lord makes up his mind are a sealed deal, it would take the Seven Seals of Hell, an Angelic Intervention, and a reordering of the Universe to change his mind.

But Grimdark is always an entertaining topic, so let it be entertained.

JustVine

Solvryn wrote: »

Kilion wrote: »

Solvryn wrote: »

I think this thread needs to be further entertained.

I would wonder to what end. Let me quickly find the quote.

From the recent Q&A: " [Question:] How far are you willing to go in response to player feedback on core systems? For example there is a huge outcry at launch to have more instanced dungeons and raids, is that something you would address or would you stand firm on the more open world aspect?[Answer:][...] Player feedback is important, however the identity and the vision of the game is not up for discussion. And so when we talk about the core systems, tenets, and philosophies behind what the game that we're trying to make is, we believe that the game we are trying to make resonates with a large enough section of the MMORPG player base that it is a sustainable and profitable venture for us to create that core game. [...]"

I think this includes the art style and story telling. There are grimdark elements but I think there are a lot of elements in the showcase that indicate to me that this will not be a "full" grimdark game - and as Steven said in the interview, that design decision is in all likelihood not part of what the community can influence.

Exploring ideas was never going to influence the game. The things the Sandal Lord makes up his mind are a sealed deal, it would take the Seven Seals of Hell, an Angelic Intervention, and a reordering of the Universe to change his mind.

But Grimdark is always an entertaining topic, so let it be entertained.

The sandal lord is pretty grimdark though. This is the same guy that wants to string up people into the gallows.

nanfoodle

I hope they dont get too dark. Every story needs grit and villains but I hope this game stays family friendly. Life is dark enough and we need stories that will encourage and build up.

Solvryn

JustVine wrote: »

Solvryn wrote: »

Kilion wrote: »

Solvryn wrote: »

I think this thread needs to be further entertained.

I would wonder to what end. Let me quickly find the quote.

From the recent Q&A: " [Question:] How far are you willing to go in response to player feedback on core systems? For example there is a huge outcry at launch to have more instanced dungeons and raids, is that something you would address or would you stand firm on the more open world aspect?[Answer:][...] Player feedback is important, however the identity and the vision of the game is not up for discussion. And so when we talk about the core systems, tenets, and philosophies behind what the game that we're trying to make is, we believe that the game we are trying to make resonates with a large enough section of the MMORPG player base that it is a sustainable and profitable venture for us to create that core game. [...]"

I think this includes the art style and story telling. There are grimdark elements but I think there are a lot of elements in the showcase that indicate to me that this will not be a "full" grimdark game - and as Steven said in the interview, that design decision is in all likelihood not part of what the community can influence.

Exploring ideas was never going to influence the game. The things the Sandal Lord makes up his mind are a sealed deal, it would take the Seven Seals of Hell, an Angelic Intervention, and a reordering of the Universe to change his mind.

But Grimdark is always an entertaining topic, so let it be entertained.

The sandal lord is pretty grimdark though. This is the same guy that wants to string up people into the gallows.

I mean, he did make his favorite race and class blow the damn place up, so you're right.

Kilion

Like a good cocktail, it will probably end up being a mix of both. Taking into account the things I have seen in the livestreams I'd expect a light one with a dark undertone.

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