Hard-Core Solo players risk vs reward.

There are hard-core players who just play solo, they team up to fight World Bosses from time to time. What are the risks vs rewards for hardcore players? Flight mount I recall that only Guild can earn flying mount. IT will be nice for those hard-working hardcore solo players to get flying mounts by completing activities and breathing animals. IF solo players can get flight mount they should work hard to earn it. I'm a Hardcore solo PVPer, so they need to find a way to reward us and make us earn and work hard to get rare items, gears, and more. Guild way they will make it easy and Solo hardcore players have to work extra hard to earn things.

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Myosotys

I potentially asked a similar question several months ago and it was actually my first topic in that forum. But by "Hard-core player", what do you mean ? PvP harcore ? or Try hard geek playing 10 hours/day ?

https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/54028/is-ashes-of-creation-a-game-for-me#latest

Kilion

First place to check for information about this: Wiki on Solo Players

You might want to also check out the article about guild size which indicates that there will be more skill options for small (30-50) guilds available than for larger guilds.

This means to me: Even when you prefer solo gaming it would be worthwhile to find other solo players, start a guild in name, which basically is only a hub platform for occasional joint ventures. Whether you actually function as a happy, active community is secondary in that case but the perks you might get from forming a guild will probably be worth it.

You can use the Guild Recruitment channel of this forum to put the message for this type of guild out there already and lay the ground work for a swift establishment process so that you don't have to bother too much about it ingame.

With all that being said everything I have heard about this game clearly indicates to me that Ashes will be primarily group oriented, even though parts of it will surely be feasible to do alone. You will have not so small disadvantages when preferring doing things solo in this game, I am 100% certain that social bonds in this game will become highly important in all matters economics/trade/craftsmanship as well as group finding when it becomes necessary.

So like @Myosotys said: Check out the various sources yourself and closely think about whether or not this game is for you. Because one of the "virtues" of the older MMORPGs was that it was an absolute advantage to have a close net of companions to make it "to the top".

George_Black

No guild will share anything with selfcentered solo players.
Guilds got all their needs covered and 0 interests in sharing with randoms.

Where in life have you ever seen a situation in which you can tag along only for the good stuff and leave straight after?

Dont confuse solo mmos (optional content) with real mmos.

Kilion

George_Black wrote: »

No guild will share anything with selfcentered solo players.
Guilds got all their needs covered and 0 interests in sharing with randoms.

Where in life have you ever seen a situation in which you can tag along only for the good stuff and leave straight after?

Dont confuse solo mmos (optional content) with real mmos

I think these kind of games are often being referred to as "lobby games" now, where you see other people standing around all the time but basically them being their is of almost no importance whatsoever as they are largely insignificant in regards to access to the content and one would regularly disappear into instanced or solo-focused content anyways.

In those cases the "MM" in MMORPG becomes an euphemistic, empty shell barely worth the term "multiplayer". And this lobby style gameplay is definitely something Ashes is well adviced to avoid providing.

IlII

George_Black wrote: »

No guild will share anything with selfcentered solo players.
Guilds got all their needs covered and 0 interests in sharing with randoms.

Where in life have you ever seen a situation in which you can tag along only for the good stuff and leave straight after?

Dont confuse solo mmos (optional content) with real mmos.

I didn't say Guilds have to pick a random player to go along with them to farm things or earn rewards. What I meant to say is, Hardcore solo players, should be rewarded in a type of way or reward them with rare items for completing certain types of dungeons, missions, quests, and Worlds bosses. IF solo players can get flight mount they should work hard to earn it. I'm a Hardcore solo PVPer, so they need to find a way to reward us and make us earn and work hard to get rare items, gears, and more. Guild way they will make it easy and Solo hardcore players have to work extra hard to earn things. Elder scrolls online, WOW, and other MMOs. I'm sure they can balance between hardcore solo players and guilds' rewards. The freedom.

IlII

Myosotys wrote: »

I potentially asked a similar question several months ago and it was actually my first topic in that forum. But by "Hard-core player", what do you mean ? PvP harcore ? or Try hard geek playing 10 hours/day ?

https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/54028/is-ashes-of-creation-a-game-for-me#latest

Thanks for the heads up, I was searching for the specific topic title but I didn't see anything that's why I made another one.

daveywavey

Asgorath wrote: »

There are hard-core players who just play solo, they team up to fight World Bosses from time to time. What are the risks vs rewards for hardcore players? Flight mount I recall that only Guild can earn flying mount or ships. IT will be nice for those hard-working hardcore solo players to get this playing city lol.

Try a Divine Node metropolis, maybe, and spam your Divine Quests. If you can become the mayor of that metropolis, you'll get access to the flying mount.

George_Black

Asgorath wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

No guild will share anything with selfcentered solo players.
Guilds got all their needs covered and 0 interests in sharing with randoms.

Where in life have you ever seen a situation in which you can tag along only for the good stuff and leave straight after?

Dont confuse solo mmos (optional content) with real mmos.

I didn't say Guilds have to pick a random player to go along with them to farm things or earn rewards. What I meant to say is, Hardcore solo players, should be rewarded in a type of way or reward them with rare items for completing certain types of dungeons, missions, quests, and Worlds bosses. IF solo players can get flight mount they should work hard to earn it. I'm a Hardcore solo PVPer, so they need to find a way to reward us and make us earn and work hard to get rare items, gears, and more. Guild way they will make it easy and Solo hardcore players have to work extra hard to earn things. Elder scrolls online, WOW, and other MMOs. I'm sure they can balance between hardcore solo players and guilds' rewards. The freedom.

If mmos provide rewards for solo content, why bother joining others?

If solo players can achieve goals, what goals are left for groups?

Anyway... if you cant see why solo should not be rewarded for being solo in an mmo, why do I even bother. Go play eso and solo your life away.

Myosotys

daveywavey wrote: »

Asgorath wrote: »

There are hard-core players who just play solo, they team up to fight World Bosses from time to time. What are the risks vs rewards for hardcore players? Flight mount I recall that only Guild can earn flying mount or ships. IT will be nice for those hard-working hardcore solo players to get this playing city lol.

Try a Divine Node metropolis, maybe, and spam your Divine Quests. If you can become the mayor of that metropolis, you'll get access to the flying mount.

Welcome ! And don't listen those who will tell you "the game is not for you", "go play a solo game" and blablabla. This is bullshit and the game is for every one who will buy it and play it.

IlII

George_Black wrote: »

Asgorath wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

No guild will share anything with selfcentered solo players.
Guilds got all their needs covered and 0 interests in sharing with randoms.

Where in life have you ever seen a situation in which you can tag along only for the good stuff and leave straight after?

Dont confuse solo mmos (optional content) with real mmos.

I didn't say Guilds have to pick a random player to go along with them to farm things or earn rewards. What I meant to say is, Hardcore solo players, should be rewarded in a type of way or reward them with rare items for completing certain types of dungeons, missions, quests, and Worlds bosses. IF solo players can get flight mount they should work hard to earn it. I'm a Hardcore solo PVPer, so they need to find a way to reward us and make us earn and work hard to get rare items, gears, and more. Guild way they will make it easy and Solo hardcore players have to work extra hard to earn things. Elder scrolls online, WOW, and other MMOs. I'm sure they can balance between hardcore solo players and guilds' rewards. The freedom.

If mmos provide rewards for solo content, why bother joining others?

If solo players can achieve goals, what goals are left for groups?

Anyway... if you cant see why solo should not be rewarded for being solo in an mmo, why do I even bother. Go play eso and solo your life away.

Lol, it's okay if you're not a solo player. Don't come hard on us saying we don't deserve rewards, i believe they should be rewards for Solo players in general, rare rewards. I have vast knowledge of MMOs and ESO is one of them.

Kilion

Myosotys wrote: »

daveywavey wrote: »

Asgorath wrote: »

There are hard-core players who just play solo, they team up to fight World Bosses from time to time. What are the risks vs rewards for hardcore players? Flight mount I recall that only Guild can earn flying mount or ships. IT will be nice for those hard-working hardcore solo players to get this playing city lol.

Try a Divine Node metropolis, maybe, and spam your Divine Quests. If you can become the mayor of that metropolis, you'll get access to the flying mount.

Welcome ! And don't listen those who will tell you "the game is not for you", "go play a solo game" and blablabla. This is bullshit and the game is for every one who will buy it and play it.

The point people who say "This game is not for you" are trying to make is that the game is optimized for a certain general game style. Diverting too far from that will result in a limited - and as such less enjoyable - experience of the game.

We had these debates over and over again with the PvP and PvE purists, while it has been clearly stated that the game is not intended to be played in such a fashion and trying to do so will lead to missing out on crucial parts of the game as well as running into problems with progression.

Same goes for Solo playing. A player that refuses 90% of the time to play Ashes socially will run with absolute certainty have disadvantages and limitations in regards to progression and mandatory interaction (primarily economics).

And if someone is insisting of having the full access to Ashes' content while playing solo, PvE only or PvP only that is the point at which other people - and Steven - came up with the conclusion "This game might not be for you".

Dezemi

... I am sorry but why is this even a discussion? There are tons of advantages to being solo, and tons of disadvantages.

A few I can think of right away:
1. Move freely. AoC is a geographically huge game. If you are tied to a community, then you might not be able to go where-ever you please in order to be available for certain group activities.
2. Your time is your own. You dont have to wait for your pals to be online to progress.
3. Want to move? You can do so without discussing it with anyone.
4. Lend services to guilds/groups/communities needing more bodies. Pugging is a thing.

I am positive there will be plenty of solo players doing just fine in AoC.

Besides... Flying mounts? Can also drop from world Bosses or be extremely rare and difficult breedings from animal husbandry (if I remember things right from one of the streams).

Myosotys

Kilion wrote: »

Myosotys wrote: »

daveywavey wrote: »

Asgorath wrote: »

There are hard-core players who just play solo, they team up to fight World Bosses from time to time. What are the risks vs rewards for hardcore players? Flight mount I recall that only Guild can earn flying mount or ships. IT will be nice for those hard-working hardcore solo players to get this playing city lol.

Try a Divine Node metropolis, maybe, and spam your Divine Quests. If you can become the mayor of that metropolis, you'll get access to the flying mount.

Welcome ! And don't listen those who will tell you "the game is not for you", "go play a solo game" and blablabla. This is bullshit and the game is for every one who will buy it and play it.

The point people who say "This game is not for you" are trying to make is that the game is optimized for a certain general game style. Diverting too far from that will result in a limited - and as such less enjoyable - experience of the game.

We had these debates over and over again with the PvP and PvE purists, while it has been clearly stated that the game is not intended to be played in such a fashion and trying to do so will lead to missing out on crucial parts of the game as well as running into problems with progression.

Same goes for Solo playing. A player that refuses 90% of the time to play Ashes socially will run with absolute certainty have disadvantages and limitations in regards to progression and mandatory interaction (primarily economics).

And if someone is insisting of having the full access to Ashes' content while playing solo, PvE only or PvP only that is the point at which other people - and Steven - came up with the conclusion "This game might not be for you".

If Steven said it, he had the intelligence to use the conditional mood instead of the imperative mood. And coming from Steven, the imperative, (not very diplomatic), could have worked because it's his game and only he (or his team) can decide who he addresses.

But when a player (who isn't even one yet because the game isn't released) allows himself to say "This game is not for you", It's total bullshit.

Kilion

Myosotys wrote: »

Kilion wrote: »

Myosotys wrote: »

daveywavey wrote: »

Asgorath wrote: »

There are hard-core players who just play solo, they team up to fight World Bosses from time to time. What are the risks vs rewards for hardcore players? Flight mount I recall that only Guild can earn flying mount or ships. IT will be nice for those hard-working hardcore solo players to get this playing city lol.

Try a Divine Node metropolis, maybe, and spam your Divine Quests. If you can become the mayor of that metropolis, you'll get access to the flying mount.

Welcome ! And don't listen those who will tell you "the game is not for you", "go play a solo game" and blablabla. This is bullshit and the game is for every one who will buy it and play it.

The point people who say "This game is not for you" are trying to make is that the game is optimized for a certain general game style. Diverting too far from that will result in a limited - and as such less enjoyable - experience of the game.

We had these debates over and over again with the PvP and PvE purists, while it has been clearly stated that the game is not intended to be played in such a fashion and trying to do so will lead to missing out on crucial parts of the game as well as running into problems with progression.

Same goes for Solo playing. A player that refuses 90% of the time to play Ashes socially will run with absolute certainty have disadvantages and limitations in regards to progression and mandatory interaction (primarily economics).

And if someone is insisting of having the full access to Ashes' content while playing solo, PvE only or PvP only that is the point at which other people - and Steven - came up with the conclusion "This game might not be for you".

If Steven said it, he had the intelligence to use the conditional mood instead of the imperative mood. And coming from Steven, the imperative, (not very diplomatic), could have worked because it's his game and only he (or his team) can decide who he addresses.

But when a player (who isn't even one yet because the game isn't released) allows himself to say "This game is not for you", It's total bullshit.

I don't think that's how that works. A player or backer or member is giving the same explanation as Steven did it doesn't lose one bit of accuracy. Reality doesn't change because someone else informed us about it. You could ask for verification of the sources that led to the conclusion for example to the stuff I said, but saying "nah, that's BS" without doing so even though Steven might have said so himself is just... missing the mark completly. I can't explain it any other way.

I think I made my case quite clear and linked all the sources why there is a big chance that a solo playser will find themselves to be highly disappointed in the game given their preferred play style, simply because that hasn't been the primary focus during the game design.

Depraved

Asgorath wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

No guild will share anything with selfcentered solo players.
Guilds got all their needs covered and 0 interests in sharing with randoms.

Where in life have you ever seen a situation in which you can tag along only for the good stuff and leave straight after?

Dont confuse solo mmos (optional content) with real mmos.

I didn't say Guilds have to pick a random player to go along with them to farm things or earn rewards. What I meant to say is, Hardcore solo players, should be rewarded in a type of way or reward them with rare items for completing certain types of dungeons, missions, quests, and Worlds bosses. IF solo players can get flight mount they should work hard to earn it. I'm a Hardcore solo PVPer, so they need to find a way to reward us and make us earn and work hard to get rare items, gears, and more. Guild way they will make it easy and Solo hardcore players have to work extra hard to earn things. Elder scrolls online, WOW, and other MMOs. I'm sure they can balance between hardcore solo players and guilds' rewards. The freedom.

they don't have to reward you and you don't deserve anything. no one does. with that being said, its a good idea to offer progression paths for solo players in a mmorpg, since no one plays with a group 100% of the time.

your reward is defending successfully your solo farming spot from other solo players and being able to farm, get gear, etc

you can still join people and do raid bosses..if you don't join a party, don't expect to get loot since you wont win on dps/loot priority (unless the bosses drop something for everybody who hit it).

flying mounts are for guild leaders who own a castle and for those who breed them using the animal tamer profession (or people who buy from them). they are extremely rare and they arent permanent. expect to see 10-20 in a server at any given month (according to steven). so yeah go farm that gold and buy it or become and animal tamer yourself.

SirChancelot

Dezmerizing wrote: »

... I am sorry but why is this even a discussion? There are tons of advantages to being solo, and tons of disadvantages.

A few I can think of right away:
1. Move freely. AoC is a geographically huge game. If you are tied to a community, then you might not be able to go where-ever you please in order to be available for certain group activities.
2. Your time is your own. You dont have to wait for your pals to be online to progress.
3. Want to move? You can do so without discussing it with anyone.
4. Lend services to guilds/groups/communities needing more bodies. Pugging is a thing.

I am positive there will be plenty of solo players doing just fine in AoC.

Besides... Flying mounts? Can also drop from world Bosses or be extremely rare and difficult breedings from animal husbandry (if I remember things right from one of the streams).

I said stuff like this a while ago on a thread where someone was talking about a mercenary/adventurer's guild. I'd like the idea of not having to be locked into an area but still being able to progress a social ranking. After doing so many quests, dungeons, etc. you can level up within the guild.

While I can see where people are coming from when they say it's a social game that's what an MMO is... Personally I think that is lame reasoning, and isn't a very realistic view of people. Not everyone is an extrovert and wants to do big group things, some people play these games because they love immersive worlds and want to go explore.

Ludullu

SirChancelot wrote: »

While I can see where people are coming from when they say it's a social game that's what an MMO is... Personally I think that is lame reasoning, and isn't a very realistic view of people. Not everyone is an extrovert and wants to do big group things, some people play these games because they love immersive worlds and want to go explore.

The difference there is "explore =/= get cool rewards". You're always free to explore all you want, but don't expect handouts from the game for participating in content meant for big groups as a solo player.

Just as it's silly to expect a soloable experience in smth like LoL or Dota2, it's silly to expect the same lvl of rewards for soloing an mmo as a party/raid would get.

Percimes

Anyone playing a mmorpg 100% of the time solo is playing the game wrong.

Let me get controversial now...

Anyone playing a mmorpg 100% of the time in group is also playing the game wrong.

I have spoken.

Myosotys

Percimes wrote: »

Anyone playing a mmorpg 100% of the time solo is playing the game wrong.

Let me get controversial now...

Anyone playing a mmorpg 100% of the time in group is also playing the game wrong.

I have spoken.

A video game is a moment of recreation. As long as the player enjoys it, there is no wrong way to play a video game (within the limits of respect for others).

The only wrong way to play a video game is to play too much or to disrepect other players.

Myosotys

Double post sorry

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