Glorious Alpha Two Testers!

Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.

Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.

Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.

The keybinding predicament of AoC

RockettRockett Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
edited November 2023 in General Discussion
AoC has a hybrid combat system, a combination of tab and action combat. From the most recent streams, it is evident they are giving the use of up to 16 combat abilities to be used at any time, along with weapon swapping. A good healthy amount of abilities to use.

I have noticed a trend in the majority of MMORPG's has been slapping combat abilities on R4 of the keyboard, the most popular keybindings being 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0,-,= which ashes seems to have also adopted in the recent stream shown for mage. You might think thats fine every other MMORPG does it but from a usablity stand point this is terrible.

It's too difficult to reach keys: Many of the keys in this control scheme, such as the 6, 7, 8, 9, 0, - and = keys, are located far away from WASD on the keyboard. This can make it challenging to quickly and accurately hit these keys during fast-paced gameplay. Especially with the choice to use a hybrid combat system, movement is very important.

Lack of ergonomic design: This control scheme is not designed with ergonomics in mind. Reaching for keys outside the movement area in a hybrid combat MMORPG can cause strain on the hands and wrists, leading to discomfort or even injury over time.

The current default control scheme plays a part in making the game feel clunky to play. Most players don't have the muscle memory to hit these keys whilst playing the game, making it feel very frustrating to play as you miss press the ability you meant to use. Having a designed default control scheme for the game is one of the key areas to improving combat, having a good default control scheme. I clearly have to namedrop BDO here, a game known for its action based combat which is widely praised. The devs spent time mapping out combinations of keys that can be pressed and flow together in order to attack and perform skills. I am NOT stating AoC should go down this route, I am simply stating a well thought out control scheme based around the total amount of abilities you will have access to greatly impacts the way the game plays, it can make it feel more impactful and enhance the gameplay. I can also bring up GW2 a hybrid combat system that doesnt require you to go into the keybindings to play the game on a normal mouse and keyboard which is also said to have good combat.

MMORPG games require a control scheme that is optimized for its gameplay, where being able to dodge/move out of attacks and red zones whilst also having access to all of your abilities easily is incredibly important and plays a huge role in them having smooth well thought out and refined combat. Intrepid needs to create a default control scheme to work with being able to use WASD at the same time as using all 16 abilities comfortably.

You can just rebind the keys though, whats the issue?
Having a limited number of keys means that players might need to use multiple modifiers, such as Shift or Alt, in combination with the numbered keys to access all of their skills and abilities. This can make gameplay more cumbersome and require more mental effort to execute actions quickly and accurately making it not feel great to play.
Some MMORPG games might use certain keys for specific actions, such as opening a menu or bringing up a map. If third-party software also uses those same keys for different actions, conflicts can still occur even with key rebinding making the process tiring and cumbersome.
The default control scheme we will all experience needs to be designed to not make the majority of players go into the keybinds menu and change them all.

Just buy an MMORPG mouse, whats the issue?
Not all players may be able to afford one or want to spend that much money on a peripheral. The current build has 16 combat abilities to use which is 4 more than the 12 button MMORPG mouse has so not even that has been thought about. This a minority of MMORPG players, these systems should be built for the majority to improve usabliity.

Lastly I want to say I am not suggesting the removal of how many skills you can use at a time, just that something needs to be done about the default control scheme. You can make having many skills work if you create properly thought-out keybindings for everything.

TLDR:
Intrepid needs to strive to create a default control scheme that works well for the majority of players. A normal Mouse + standard keyboard.

Lastly I want to add the vast majority of MMORPG players don't browse this forum, don't use reddit, the most they would consider dipping their toes in is a click baity youtube video about the game they play. I don't expect to garner much support from people here we're all the "elite" players who probably use MMO mice and/or customise all their keybinds to their liking. This suggestion is for having an option of a control scheme that would be for the majority player group that just plays the game with their simple keyboard and 3-5 button mouse.

Comments

  • NerrorNerror Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Is it really the control scheme you are against, or is it the amount of skills you want reduced? Because the first part is easily solved with rebinding keys, as you also point out.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    I am fine as long as i can rebind duo keys like (Shift+A() (Shift+F) (Shift+ left mouse button) ETC. So allowing me to use single letting and shift clicks i feel is pretty important now a days pretty much akin to BDO. Allow players to customize ho they want and not be limited.

    Some mmorpgs in the case if you did do shit+ A wouldn't work or would be broken-ish.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Rockett wrote: »
    I clearly have to namedrop BDO here, a game known for its action based combat which is widely praised.

    BDO combat is shit.

    That said, what you are talking about here is actually an aspect of player skill - and you are asking Intrepid to lower or remove it.

    It can indeed be difficult to easily access 16+ ability shortcut keys and key combinations, and those players that are able to do it well are simply better players than those unable to do it well.

    Those unable to reach said keys and key combinations easily always have the option of creating a build with fewer abilities, in order to compensate for their shortcomings as a player.
  • RockettRockett Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited April 2023
    Nerror wrote: »
    Is it really the control scheme you are against, or is it the amount of skills you want reduced? Because the first part is easily solved with rebinding keys, as you also point out.

    No, the problem should not exist to begin with. The keybinds beyond 5 on the keyboard are out of reach for the majority of players, the default control scheme is not viable to play the game with. They need to make use of the keys closer to WASD eg: q, e, r, f, c, tab etc...
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    I am fine as long as i can rebind duo keys like (Shift+A() (Shift+F) (Shift+ left mouse button) ETC. So allowing me to use single letting and shift clicks i feel is pretty important now a days pretty much akin to BDO. Allow players to customize ho they want and not be limited.

    You might be fine with it, but the problem should not exist to begin with. I'm not suggesting copying BDO, Just stating BDO and GW2 have default keycaps that are viable to play the game with without having to remap any keybinds. With AoC the current default keybinds are too far away for the majority of players to reach making it impractical for most players.

    I am not advocating for removal of skills or removing the keybind system, I simply suggest the default control scheme be viable for the majority of players. You should not need to edit keybinds, they should already be appropriate.



  • NerrorNerror Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited April 2023
    I see. Well, ok, I mean, I am not against improvements to make the initial experience better for people. So if they can do that, that's fine with me.

    Personally I don't even use the keyboard, just a MMO mouse and a Belkin n52te keypad that I setup depending on the game, so none of it really affects me :wink:
  • RockettRockett Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited April 2023
    Noaani wrote: »

    That said, what you are talking about here is actually an aspect of player skill - and you are asking Intrepid to lower or remove it.

    It can indeed be difficult to easily access 16+ ability shortcut keys and key combinations, and those players that are able to do it well are simply better players than those unable to do it well.

    Those unable to reach said keys and key combinations easily always have the option of creating a build with fewer abilities, in order to compensate for their shortcomings as a player.

    The default keymap should be designed for the majority and not be a hinderance to playing the game. I do not agree with your point on a non ergonomic keymap being skill based, I would say it is badly designed. Macros though are in that territory as most players will not use them, but the more efficient players will.

    I do agree with you on players who arent comfortable with using all 16 abilities wont use them but those that are will. I am only advocating the default keymap be changed to benefit the majority.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Rockett wrote: »
    I am only advocating the default keymap be changed to benefit the majority.
    And who exactly are the majority in this case and what exactly are their preferences? Cause afaik wow didn't put their whole bar of abilities on letters instead of numbers (maybe I'm wrong here?). So "the majority" would've been accustomed to using those numbers or immediately rebinding to their own preferences.

    There's no majority when you're suggesting to move away from one of the bigger standards of the genre. Yes, other games had their own control schemes because they saw them as more convenient, but BDO has a whole damn different combat design and after going through ability bars of several "newbie guide" videos I don't think I saw a single exact same keybinding setup. Which to me means that even if it has a good default, people still just change it to their preferences.

    The casual players who don't even have their own preferences will just remain casual and probably won't even use the majority of their abilities to their full extent.
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    There is no predicament if you simply offer more than one default keybind layout.

    Layout 1 is as it is because of that 'minority' who does use the MMORPG mouse, which would be 'looking for' or 'autobinding to' the number keys.

    Layout 2 could be as suggested, using ERFCV as the second half and similar things. Doesn't even matter much which is the default.

    I know there are people who are 'so casual that they don't even rebind their keys', but you can never manage to make every one of those people happy or effective. Maybe I'm being too harsh with people too, but I feel that once you've reached the point of playing a game seriously enough to care that hitting 6-0 is difficult, you are at the level where opening the Keybind menu is not outside your scope.
    ♪ One Gummy Fish, two Gummy Fish, Red Gummy Fish, Blue Gummy Fish
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Rockett wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »

    That said, what you are talking about here is actually an aspect of player skill - and you are asking Intrepid to lower or remove it.

    It can indeed be difficult to easily access 16+ ability shortcut keys and key combinations, and those players that are able to do it well are simply better players than those unable to do it well.

    Those unable to reach said keys and key combinations easily always have the option of creating a build with fewer abilities, in order to compensate for their shortcomings as a player.

    The default keymap should be designed for the majority and not be a hinderance to playing the game. I do not agree with your point on a non ergonomic keymap being skill based, I would say it is badly designed. Macros though are in that territory as most players will not use them, but the more efficient players will.

    I do agree with you on players who arent comfortable with using all 16 abilities wont use them but those that are will. I am only advocating the default keymap be changed to benefit the majority.

    The default keymap should be 1 through to 0 for the first 10 abilities, then shift 1 through 0 for the next 10, and if a player wants to change it they should then do so.

    The problem with a game like Ashes trying to have a default keymap to suit the majority is that there will jot be a build that the majority has.

    Many people will run a build with 6 abilities or less, the game is specifically being designed for this. The default keybinds players of such builds would want are vastly different to the default keyboards a player with 16 abilities would want.

    As such, Intrepid setting up the default as a some 1 - 0 is really the only option, and then leave it up to players to set things to suit their build and dexterity.
  • RockettRockett Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited April 2023
    Clearly this suggestion doesnt have much if any community support so I will quit arguing for it.

    If intrepid does read this though:
    -A 3 button mouse + qwerty layout keyboard are the peripherals most of us will use

    -6, 7 and 8 can't be reached without letting go of the movement keys WASD which with a hybrid combat system will make the default keybinds not very easy to use

    Players will remap them to their desired keybindings, one of which will be very commonly used which Is what would be better suited (IMO) to being the default keybindings for the game.
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    edited April 2023
    1234 / zxcv / qertfg
    ctrl 1234 / zxcv / qertfg
    alt 1234 / zxcv / qertfg
    shift 1234 / zxcv / qertfg
    ctrl shift 1234 / zxcv / qertfg
    alt shift 1234 / zxcv / qertfg
    ctrl alt 1234 /zxcv / qertfg
    and for those with alien fingers ctrl alt shift

    you can also get a nostromo and have something like 500 keys under your fingertips. you don't even have to move your hand or arm. also mice with side buttons.
  • CawwCaww Member, Alpha Two
    this is all so unfair to left-handed people who have special needs...
  • AphisiaAphisia Member, Alpha Two
    I'm a lefty and default keybinds are a pain in the butt. They don't make affordable mmo mice for lefties either. Its puts me at a pretty big disadvantage. I would love to see and alternate layout option for lefties that can be chosen in the game options. I've adapted over the years to some layout issues but having alt/shift skills is still too hard for me to do. I keep my mouse to the left because its much more comfortable for me accuracy wise.
  • NemesesNemeses Member
    edited April 2023
    Rockett wrote: »
    **Wall of text*

    Except most people use MMO mouse, so keys 1 to = is just under the thumb!
    The Immortals
    • We Lived a Thousand Lives, United we Stand.
    • Recruitment
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    Caww wrote: »
    this is all so unfair to left-handed people who have special needs...

    you got:

    numpad
    left alt, ctrl and shift
    7890-=
    nm,./
    set was to okl; or pl;'
    etc etc
  • prymortalprymortal Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited May 2023
    Just use a controller if pressing keys is to hard, It's literally as simple as Intrepid ticking a box to cover all controller types.
    vni04urluxpl.jpg
Sign In or Register to comment.