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Mage Class Feedback - Good, Bad & the Ugly
Vlhadus
Member
This might be a long post but I’m asking Intrepid to be more specific to what and how we should leave feedback for class design. I am someone who has only beta tested expansions in WoW, so I know certain things shouldn’t be taken into account i.e. damage numbers but what about the level of the character? It says level 15 but will a level 15 have access to that many abilities or are you just showing us everything you guys have at the moment for the mage? I have a feeling that I am not alone in looking at alpha footage for a game and wondering what feedback are they looking at and what if I say something they already know?
I want to mention the mob pathing before I get into Mage feedback. The mobs in the area we were at were stacking on top of each other. I remember back in the melee showcase; they said mobs wouldn’t do that and would go in a circle. Did that change now or was the mob pathing broken? If we want Ashes of Creation to be a hard MMO as Steven has said then mob pathing needs to be done correctly and efficiently. Then we will run into a classic WoW situation where you go up one step in elevation and the mobs path all the way around as you keep dpsing them. Just wanted to mention this since the mob Ai looked funky and broken. I’m sure this will be fixed before alpha 2.
On to the mage feedback I have. The first thing I want to talk about is mana management. I heard Steven say during the livestream that mana should matter. I am just wondering in what way? Does he want us to run out of mana after killing a single mob? I do believe mana should matter for a healer but when it comes to a DPS rotation, mana shouldn’t be the main emphasis of why you beat a mob or a person. It should be skill that does that. Also, we didn’t see any mana being used during the livestream and I assume that was to showcase the abilities to us. Personally, on mana management, I just don’t want classic wow style of mana management for DPS casters. AGAIN, mana should matter just not for a DPS class. Now, if you use spells incorrectly or repeatedly then you should run out of mana. I know people will try and take what I say and think I want something brain dead like being able to multi-spam the highest DPS ability over and over and that’s what I want. Not at all. I don’t think we have gotten an accurate depiction of what rotation really looks like with proper mana costs, proper cool downs, etc. Which is why it is hard to leave feedback on something that feels like Intrepid doesn’t know either. Personally, I just don’t want to drink after a mob or two after doing a proper rotation of spells.
The second thing I want to talk about is the spell interactions with other spells. I’m talking about FROZEN, STUN, SHATTER, etc. We know Ashes of Creation is a group-based MMORPG. How will multiple mages in a group get interaction with their spells? Can they stack from other mages, or will they be independent from one another? If they are independent from one another, can you chain stun mobs with Frozen? I didn’t hear anything on this in the livestream. For me personally, the spell interactions didn’t do anything for me. They felt very plain and simple. Again, I know this is level 15 but if Ashes of Creation is going to take over 3 months for the average person to level to max then the beginning levels need to feel exciting from a spell interaction point of view. Would the mage benefit from a secondary resource of some kind? Taking the fire mage from WoW, the model is based off critical strikes of your spells. After two crits back-to-back, you get a free pyroblast to cast. It’s an exciting moment. As a frost mage, you get fingers of frost stacks which give you powerful ice lance casts. Did anyone get an exciting moment from watching the mage engage in the spell toolkit? I know people are saying that the spells are copied from WoW but the exciting parts of those spells were missing.
The third thing I want to discuss is Player Agency. I don’t want to be a Debbie downer the entire time, so this is a huge positive for me! The fact you have slow walk while casting abilities is a HUGE WIN! Man, I can’t believe this can happen in Ashes. From a caster player like myself, thank you so much for doing this. I know you said this is just a Mage Class thing, but I would really reconsider that position. I think if any class should be able to cast on the move, it’s the Cleric but why stop there? Add this convenience to the Bard, Summoner, Cleric, and the Mage class. Do you know how much of a draw that is to an MMO player? The thing that separates Ashes of Creation from other MMOs is that you can cast on the move as a caster?! That would be exciting to say the least. I do want to mention charge spells and those I feel should be rooted in place. Just wanted to mention that.
The next thing I want to discuss is crowd control and utility. I know the AoE sleep spell cause a bit of a tizzy. I’m personally cool with a spell like that however the CD needs to be like 3 minutes long for an AoE sleep. Maybe an augment can make it single target with a way shorter CD but I know CD times are all placeholder. Just my 2 cents. Because this MMO is so heavily in PvP, I don’t want the non-support class to have a lot of utility. A spell or two is the most I would do because utility became a HUGE issue in PvP in WoW around cata and it hasn’t gotten better since. Then the player base gets used to having all that utility so if you take away later then the base is not be happy. I am very excited that we are going to have a Bard class and Summoner be support classes so let them have the bulk of CC and utility. Let the DPS classes focus on DPS.
The transition of spells from the toolkit. I think it’s fine personally. I don’t have much to say on this topic of feedback other than it looks fine. Keep going.
Just to finish off that I am so excited for this game, and I only want to help the team the best way I can as a player and tester. After seeing these classes and toolkits, I feel like we are still not there in terms of fun combat and that worries me a little. We are 6 years into this development, and this feels like 1st or 2nd passes of these classes. I don’t want to be negative towards the developers because I know they have been working hard on this and I don’t want to be dismissive in a statement like that. Combat is so important for an MMO, and we really need to get the base foundation of this combat in a fun and rotational state. Hoping this feedback contributes to that. Thank you Intrepid team and Steven!
-Vlhadus
I want to mention the mob pathing before I get into Mage feedback. The mobs in the area we were at were stacking on top of each other. I remember back in the melee showcase; they said mobs wouldn’t do that and would go in a circle. Did that change now or was the mob pathing broken? If we want Ashes of Creation to be a hard MMO as Steven has said then mob pathing needs to be done correctly and efficiently. Then we will run into a classic WoW situation where you go up one step in elevation and the mobs path all the way around as you keep dpsing them. Just wanted to mention this since the mob Ai looked funky and broken. I’m sure this will be fixed before alpha 2.
On to the mage feedback I have. The first thing I want to talk about is mana management. I heard Steven say during the livestream that mana should matter. I am just wondering in what way? Does he want us to run out of mana after killing a single mob? I do believe mana should matter for a healer but when it comes to a DPS rotation, mana shouldn’t be the main emphasis of why you beat a mob or a person. It should be skill that does that. Also, we didn’t see any mana being used during the livestream and I assume that was to showcase the abilities to us. Personally, on mana management, I just don’t want classic wow style of mana management for DPS casters. AGAIN, mana should matter just not for a DPS class. Now, if you use spells incorrectly or repeatedly then you should run out of mana. I know people will try and take what I say and think I want something brain dead like being able to multi-spam the highest DPS ability over and over and that’s what I want. Not at all. I don’t think we have gotten an accurate depiction of what rotation really looks like with proper mana costs, proper cool downs, etc. Which is why it is hard to leave feedback on something that feels like Intrepid doesn’t know either. Personally, I just don’t want to drink after a mob or two after doing a proper rotation of spells.
The second thing I want to talk about is the spell interactions with other spells. I’m talking about FROZEN, STUN, SHATTER, etc. We know Ashes of Creation is a group-based MMORPG. How will multiple mages in a group get interaction with their spells? Can they stack from other mages, or will they be independent from one another? If they are independent from one another, can you chain stun mobs with Frozen? I didn’t hear anything on this in the livestream. For me personally, the spell interactions didn’t do anything for me. They felt very plain and simple. Again, I know this is level 15 but if Ashes of Creation is going to take over 3 months for the average person to level to max then the beginning levels need to feel exciting from a spell interaction point of view. Would the mage benefit from a secondary resource of some kind? Taking the fire mage from WoW, the model is based off critical strikes of your spells. After two crits back-to-back, you get a free pyroblast to cast. It’s an exciting moment. As a frost mage, you get fingers of frost stacks which give you powerful ice lance casts. Did anyone get an exciting moment from watching the mage engage in the spell toolkit? I know people are saying that the spells are copied from WoW but the exciting parts of those spells were missing.
The third thing I want to discuss is Player Agency. I don’t want to be a Debbie downer the entire time, so this is a huge positive for me! The fact you have slow walk while casting abilities is a HUGE WIN! Man, I can’t believe this can happen in Ashes. From a caster player like myself, thank you so much for doing this. I know you said this is just a Mage Class thing, but I would really reconsider that position. I think if any class should be able to cast on the move, it’s the Cleric but why stop there? Add this convenience to the Bard, Summoner, Cleric, and the Mage class. Do you know how much of a draw that is to an MMO player? The thing that separates Ashes of Creation from other MMOs is that you can cast on the move as a caster?! That would be exciting to say the least. I do want to mention charge spells and those I feel should be rooted in place. Just wanted to mention that.
The next thing I want to discuss is crowd control and utility. I know the AoE sleep spell cause a bit of a tizzy. I’m personally cool with a spell like that however the CD needs to be like 3 minutes long for an AoE sleep. Maybe an augment can make it single target with a way shorter CD but I know CD times are all placeholder. Just my 2 cents. Because this MMO is so heavily in PvP, I don’t want the non-support class to have a lot of utility. A spell or two is the most I would do because utility became a HUGE issue in PvP in WoW around cata and it hasn’t gotten better since. Then the player base gets used to having all that utility so if you take away later then the base is not be happy. I am very excited that we are going to have a Bard class and Summoner be support classes so let them have the bulk of CC and utility. Let the DPS classes focus on DPS.
The transition of spells from the toolkit. I think it’s fine personally. I don’t have much to say on this topic of feedback other than it looks fine. Keep going.
Just to finish off that I am so excited for this game, and I only want to help the team the best way I can as a player and tester. After seeing these classes and toolkits, I feel like we are still not there in terms of fun combat and that worries me a little. We are 6 years into this development, and this feels like 1st or 2nd passes of these classes. I don’t want to be negative towards the developers because I know they have been working hard on this and I don’t want to be dismissive in a statement like that. Combat is so important for an MMO, and we really need to get the base foundation of this combat in a fun and rotational state. Hoping this feedback contributes to that. Thank you Intrepid team and Steven!
-Vlhadus
www.youtube.com/vlhadusgaming
6
Comments
I would say no. There is no discrimination in the world of Vera. =D
Of course it does. That's the whole point, and credit to Intrepid for making the effort. Someone had to.