Did I understand the point of killing the players?

Heljy

Greetings to all!

Just a small question, in many MMORPG, the interest of the pvp (besides the pleasure) is to win various currencies to exchange for rewards, or titles.

I have no knowledge of similar mechanics in AoC. So, since the best equipment can be manufactured, I imagine that the PvP reward is the acquisition of the player’s resources eliminated, in order to manufacture the said equipment?

Korela

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/PvP

Ludullu

Imo item drops is not the main goal of pvp. I think that mainly because flagging up decreases the amount of the stuff you'll drop on death. If Steven wanted everyone to just farm each other for mats, I doubt he'd go with that kind of design.

As I see it, pvp is there to just compete for the sources of those mats, be it mobs, bosses, quests or gatherables. If you get some mats from the dead player - great, that's a bonus, but I don't see it being the main goal.

Voxtrium

PVP might be alittle more broad than that. Perhaps I want 2 economic nodes at level 6 so I can immediately sell my goods quickly and easily. Or perhaps the opposite I want to remove a 2nd economic node because Guild A is incessantly price gouging goods on the market and making a killing off it giving them too much overall power.
Just that scenario alone would have PVP around it for weeks to setup the actual PVP of the siege itself.

Ludullu

Voxtrium wrote: »

PVP might be alittle more broad than that. Perhaps I want 2 economic nodes at level 6 so I can immediately sell my goods quickly and easily. Or perhaps the opposite I want to remove a 2nd economic node because Guild A is incessantly price gouging goods on the market and making a killing off it giving them too much overall power.
Just that scenario alone would have PVP around it for weeks to setup the actual PVP of the siege itself.

And the goal would still not be the "I want that person's items/mats".

Diamaht

Its for enjoyment but also to defend territory. People will use sieges to take whats yours so it adds higher stakes than other mmo's, except maybe Eve.

George_Black

It's sad how accustomed people are in reaching high character levels when playing mmos without any difficulty.

Pvp in real mmos is about who gets to eat and who gets to starve. Not about PvP currencies and pvp vendors.

But then again, there are no real mmos. Just optional, instanced content. PvE zones and PvP battlegrounds (large or small). And so, people look for a "meaning to pvp".


You PvP to claim mobs, you pvp to claim resources, you pvp to claim control, you pvp to hinder (not "gRiEf") rivals.

Yuyukoyay

I think people are forgetting that guilds will not be the dominant communities in this game. If you PvP for small battles that aren't worth fighting for the surrounding community might just kill you. I'd imagine most at the start will want to just play the game with minimal pvp to get used to the game. So I wouldn't be surprised if people form hit squads immediately to deal with rogue guilds getting annoying in the beginning.

Even the PvPers probably aren't going to effectively pvp right away. They will need setup time and by the time they use that setup time, entire town communities will already be setup.

There is a strength to having a bard class in the game for instance. DPS classes have minimal buffs. They just have to focus on doing damage. So noobs won't really have much holding them back from being useful in the beginning since they just have to learn damage rotations for the damage classes. Having new players have any inch of usefulness in the early game even when they suck is big in pvp.

George_Black

Yuyukoyay wrote: »

I think people are forgetting that guilds will not be the dominant communities in this game. If you PvP for small battles that aren't worth fighting for the surrounding community might just kill you. I'd imagine most at the start will want to just play the game with minimal pvp to get used to the game. So I wouldn't be surprised if people form hit squads immediately to deal with rogue guilds getting annoying in the beginning.

Even the PvPers probably aren't going to effectively pvp right away. They will need setup time and by the time they use that setup time, entire town communities will already be setup.

There is a strength to having a bard class in the game for instance. DPS classes have minimal buffs. They just have to focus on doing damage. So noobs won't really have much holding them back from being useful in the beginning since they just have to learn damage rotations for the damage classes. Having new players have any inch of usefulness in the early game even when they suck is big in pvp.

Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth.
-Mike Tyson

1) Guilds will be the dominant communities, not nodes.
2) Skilled mmo players will turn purple/red from Lv1. I dont think you have seen a real mmo launch.
3) While a bunch of node lovers try to form hit squads, the guild that went purple, has claimed the mobs, leveled up and moved on to the next goal
4) PvPers arent going to be effective? You mean to say that a node of hundreds of people will become more organized, faster than a close knit group of 5-10 friends? Wakanda logic is this? It's easier to organize a small group of ppl than a large.
It's easier to organize a group of ppl with clear communication (friends/guild), than random node citizens.
5) nobody has buffs at starting levels. There are no dps, buffs, or any other roles. You got a wooden club and you hit whatever is in front of you. If people dislike owpvp they will get left behind, still trying to figure out a "formation" or whatever.

Whoever has the willingness to fight back will level up in AoC.
Whoever things that owpvp needs parameters will judge the game poorly.

Depraved

Yuyukoyay wrote: »

I think people are forgetting that guilds will not be the dominant communities in this game. If you PvP for small battles that aren't worth fighting for the surrounding community might just kill you. I'd imagine most at the start will want to just play the game with minimal pvp to get used to the game. So I wouldn't be surprised if people form hit squads immediately to deal with rogue guilds getting annoying in the beginning.

Even the PvPers probably aren't going to effectively pvp right away. They will need setup time and by the time they use that setup time, entire town communities will already be setup.

There is a strength to having a bard class in the game for instance. DPS classes have minimal buffs. They just have to focus on doing damage. So noobs won't really have much holding them back from being useful in the beginning since they just have to learn damage rotations for the damage classes. Having new players have any inch of usefulness in the early game even when they suck is big in pvp.

the bloodlust, you underestimate

BaSkA_9x2

You'll PK people in AoC for the following reasons:

• 25%/50% of the resources the victim has;
• territory control;
• you dislike that person/guild/race/skins/etc;
• have fun.

Again, I'm talking specifically about PKing/open world PvP/corruption PvP. Caravans will, hopefully, be a common source of PvP without corruption.

akabear

Just a few spring to mind

One might kill a player for:

• the resources they might drop
• to take over a high return XP / drop location
• to persuade a player not to XP over a location that you or your group are already playing in
• because they stole from your guild
• because they smack talk in private chat
• to persuade that player`s guild to cease taking down a particular raid boss, so your guild can
• to persuade that player`s guild to cease farming particular materials in a given area, so your guild can
• to persuade that player`s guild to break their alliance with another guild that is warring yours. attacking the weaker guild of an alliance takes away the pressure
• to persuade that player`s guild to not attend a castle siege so it is easier for your guild and alliance to take down
• for spying and/or providing intel about your guild to another or an enemy guild

Pvp / Pk`ing is often down for a larger guild / community agenda

Korela

I see some misleading posts. Forget about solo PvP and PK. It is only for groups. Reasons (from wiki):
1. "A corrupt player’s location is revealed to bounty hunters on their world map" + "The more skill and stat dampening applies (lower health and mana, lower gear proficiency), until the corrupt player ultimately becomes ineffective at combat.This dampening only affects PvP combat" + "There is a 60 second timer to logout while corrupt. Force-disconnecting the client during the cooldown will leave the character in-game" = PK will die eventually.
2. [1] + "The higher chance of dropping of carried raw materials and gear (Weapons and Armor) when the corrupted player dies" + "Corrupt players suffer death penalties at four times the rate of a non-combatant" = PK will lose more than they gained.

Ludullu

Korela wrote: »

I see some misleading posts. Forget about solo PvP and PK. It is only for groups.

Yes, the game does in fact have group-based design. But even groups won't save their PKer from the BH, because they'd have to go red to do so, at which point it would just become an endless downward spiral of PKers, who will all die sooner or later. The people will still PK or at the very least flag up against others, both in a party situation and solo.

George_Black

NiKr wrote: »

Korela wrote: »

I see some misleading posts. Forget about solo PvP and PK. It is only for groups.

Yes, the game does in fact have group-based design. But even groups won't save their PKer from the BH, because they'd have to go red to do so, at which point it would just become an endless downward spiral of PKers, who will all die sooner or later. The people will still PK or at the very least flag up against others, both in a party situation and solo.

They can heal and buff their PKer, (thus turning purple).
Let those that dare flag.

Ludullu

George_Black wrote: »

They can heal and buff their PKer, (thus turning purple).
Let those that dare flag.

Yeah, that's true, but I'd imagine that this kind of behavior would quickly turn into a good ol' guild war or just an all-out brawl with several BHs or passerby groups. And the BHs themselves might have a healer for these exact situations.

Either way, I really hope that Intrepid stick with the BH idea and, ideally, even expand it.

akabear

NiKr wrote: »

Korela wrote: »

I see some misleading posts. Forget about solo PvP and PK. It is only for groups.

Yes, the game does in fact have group-based design. But even groups won't save their PKer from the BH, because they'd have to go red to do so, at which point it would just become an endless downward spiral of PKers, who will all die sooner or later. The people will still PK or at the very least flag up against others, both in a party situation and solo.

That is what happened in L2.

Say one member of a group was decided to be the one to pk (go red) and then several other members in the group had to pk to protect that member from other players.. sometimes the threat of pk was intimidating enough that there was no fight back.. sometimes not.. was a quick judgement call.. much easier in an established server with known players / guilds.. sometimes though the first red kept killing but then again, sometimes their pk count was already border high (after wearing off the karma but not cleansing the pk) so others had to step in.. and then it was a true risky situation..

akabear

NiKr wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

They can heal and buff their PKer, (thus turning purple).
Let those that dare flag.

Yeah, that's true, but I'd imagine that this kind of behavior would quickly turn into a good ol' guild war or just an all-out brawl with several BHs or passerby groups. And the BHs themselves might have a healer for these exact situations.

Either way, I really hope that Intrepid stick with the BH idea and, ideally, even expand it.

They have shown that cleric can do curved ball attacks.. which means they can attack out of sight.. wonder if single or chain healing can be done without line of sight.. that will make things interesting!

Noaani

akabear wrote: »

NiKr wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

They can heal and buff their PKer, (thus turning purple).
Let those that dare flag.

Yeah, that's true, but I'd imagine that this kind of behavior would quickly turn into a good ol' guild war or just an all-out brawl with several BHs or passerby groups. And the BHs themselves might have a healer for these exact situations.

Either way, I really hope that Intrepid stick with the BH idea and, ideally, even expand it.

They have shown that cleric can do curved ball attacks.. which means they can attack out of sight.. wonder if single or chain healing can be done without line of sight.. that will make things interesting!

Yeah, that could be interesting.

Percimes

Rather surprised no one invoked the other player being Tulnar as a proper killing justification.

Noaani

Percimes wrote: »

Rather surprised no one invoked the other player being Tulnar as a proper killing justification.

Does that even need to be said?

Gurz

Has a old tibia player which is a heavy open world pvp with little to no protection zone.

PvP was mostly done out of disrespect from others.
And it escalates accordingly.
Ofc there was always those ones who went for the fun or for the loot.
But most cases were because of arguments between players or disrespect.

Thats why while i dont like the punishment the corruption system gives, but i understand it to avoid too much killing abuse.
I think the same reasons will happen in AoC... PvP will mostly be out of disrespect.
Ofc many guilds have a heavy agenda of being the top pvx guild and yada yada yada, but i think the corruption system quite denies it, so top guilds will be mostly top on the scheduled and instanced pvp modes.

But who knows... just awaiting the game to check things out xD

JamesSunderland

Percimes wrote: »

Rather surprised no one invoked the other player being Tulnar as a proper killing justification.

Unnecessary, it's already well established within our social dogma.