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Casual Throttled XP Servers

This has been mentioned some in a few forums, but as a working adult with a family I find it hard to keep up with games that people never stop playing. I know AoC will be that game because its going to be the best thing since the unspeakable MMO. It looks amazing and we all anticipate its release with the greatest of patience. I for one will take off two weeks of work when this drops just to enjoy it. So before you scroll to reply and just mad type please read this...

The issue becomes feeling left behind or getting destroyed by high level well geared characters early on because while you may have 20 hours played in a week your opponent has 60 hours. Of course rewards for playing the game are absolutely necessary and I don't think anyone should be penalized for this but making me play with players who have a massive amount of more time then me can be daunting. The term casual is thrown around but really it means limited in time and skill. Like any sport or activity the more you play and practice the better you become.

Just like classic servers or legendary servers other games have it would be nice to see a casual player server where maybe there can be a cap on experienced per character weekly or something to that nature. This would also allow slower players to roll alts and find a character they really like. It can be frustrating dumping in several hours or weeks into a character then realizing you like another one more but having to restart sometimes without your leveling buddies as they move on.

With that said I know it would not be everyone's desire to play on a server like that because they want to get to end game fast and become "elite" which there is nothing wrong with. Competition is the center of a PvP based MMO but a fair fight is needed. This could also be good for RP players since the progression would feel more realistic as you would progressive over a longer period of time seeing your character age with the game.

Just an idea... Don't throw heavy stones at me. :)
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Comments

  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    The first point to make is that Intrepid have already said no to any alternate ruleset servers.

    That said the way the game is set up, there will be soft limits on leveling at release based on the content that lower level nodes allow for. This will stop players rushing to the level cap,but wont have any impact on those that are straggling behind.
    Ridiric wrote: »
    The issue becomes feeling left behind or getting destroyed by high level well geared characters early on because while you may have 20 hours played in a week your opponent has 60 hours.

    To this point, corruption is your friend. A higher level character killing a lower level character will gain more corruption (much more) than if they killed an equal level player.

    Higher level players are not likely to want to have anything to do with you at all.
  • DepravedDepraved Member
    edited June 2023
    Ridiric wrote: »
    This has been mentioned some in a few forums, but as a working adult with a family I find it hard to keep up with games that people never stop playing. I know AoC will be that game because its going to be the best thing since the unspeakable MMO. It looks amazing and we all anticipate its release with the greatest of patience. I for one will take off two weeks of work when this drops just to enjoy it. So before you scroll to reply and just mad type please read this...

    The issue becomes feeling left behind or getting destroyed by high level well geared characters early on because while you may have 20 hours played in a week your opponent has 60 hours. Of course rewards for playing the game are absolutely necessary and I don't think anyone should be penalized for this but making me play with players who have a massive amount of more time then me can be daunting. The term casual is thrown around but really it means limited in time and skill. Like any sport or activity the more you play and practice the better you become.

    Just like classic servers or legendary servers other games have it would be nice to see a casual player server where maybe there can be a cap on experienced per character weekly or something to that nature. This would also allow slower players to roll alts and find a character they really like. It can be frustrating dumping in several hours or weeks into a character then realizing you like another one more but having to restart sometimes without your leveling buddies as they move on.

    With that said I know it would not be everyone's desire to play on a server like that because they want to get to end game fast and become "elite" which there is nothing wrong with. Competition is the center of a PvP based MMO but a fair fight is needed. This could also be good for RP players since the progression would feel more realistic as you would progressive over a longer period of time seeing your character age with the game.

    Just an idea... Don't throw heavy stones at me. :)

    This has been mentioned some in a few forums, but as an unemployed adult without a family I find it easy to get ahead of games that people play casually. I know AoC will be that game because its going to be the best thing since the unspeakable MMO. It looks amazing and we all anticipate its release with the greatest of patience. I for one won't apply for a job when this drops just to enjoy it. So before you scroll to reply and just mad type please read this...

    The issue becomes feeling far ahead or destroying low level badly geared characters early on because while you may have 60 hours played in a week your opponent has 20 hours. Of course rewards for playing the game are absolutely necessary and I don't think anyone should be penalized for this but making me play with players who have less time than me can be boring. The term hardcore is thrown around but really it means unlimited in time and skill. Like any sport or activity the more you play and practice the better you become.

    Just like classic servers or legendary servers other games have it would be nice to see a hardcore player server where maybe there can be accelerated experienced per character weekly or something to that nature. This would also allow fast players to roll alts and find a character they really like. It can be frustrating dumping in several hours or weeks into a character then realizing you like another one more but having to restart sometimes without your leveling buddies as they move on.

    With that said I know it would not be everyone's desire to play on a server like that because they want to get to end game slow and become "pve heroes" which there is nothing wrong with. Competition is the center of a PvP based MMO but a fair fight is needed. This could also be good for RP players since the progression would feel more realistic as you would progress over a longer period of time seeing your character age with the game.

    Just an idea... Don't throw heavy stones at me. :)

  • One problem most MMORPGs have and I don't think Ashes will be completely safe from is how lower level/under geared characters (i.e. new players) are, like you mentioned, not very useful once a good portion of the server population reaches cap and is farming for BiS gear.

    However, adding a daily/weekly EXP cap on specific servers like you suggested is not a solution to this problem, as that only solves the issue for the first month(s) after launch. What about one year after launch? How will any new player, casual or hardcore, feel motivated to play the game in this age of instant gratification?

    Many in this forum believe Ashes doesn't need carebears to succeed, and while that may be true, hopefully everybody agrees that any game needs new players to survive, at least if you wanna play it for a long time (which I do). So, really, what Intrepid needs to worry about is how to make the game enticing for new players once most of the server has hit cap.

    So even though I have nothing against different servers with different rulesets, I don't care because I won't play them, I don't think it's the solution to the real problem at hand.
    🎶Galo é Galo o resto é bosta🎶
  • KilionKilion Member
    edited June 2023
    Ridiric wrote: »
    The issue becomes feeling left behind or getting destroyed by high level well geared characters early on because while you may have 20 hours played in a week your opponent has 60 hours.

    Getting destroyed doing what? The only aspect of the game where this could apply is PvP content and even there it has been mentioned that the design team has been doing work to enable us to to participate as a lower level character, e.g. operating siege weapons which do damage based on the siege weapons stats rather than the character stats.

    Just like classic servers or legendary servers other games have it would be nice to see a casual player server where maybe there can be a cap on experienced per character weekly or something to that nature.

    That might be technically possible but wouldn't exactly "fix" the "problem" you were describing, as gear is making up about half the power progression of a character, not mentioning reputation with factions, artisan skills, horizontal progression options unlocked through prolonged gameplay and the personal skills we have as humans operating out character understanding other classes and mechanics. All these things remained uncapped in your approach. And trying to dial these down is WAY too complex.

    This would also allow slower players to roll alts and find a character they really like. It can be frustrating dumping in several hours or weeks into a character then realizing you like another one more but having to restart sometimes without your leveling buddies as they move on.

    That sounds like you would be better advised to buy a Beta key to try out which archetype you want to play after launch, which would be the more appropriate measure considering that making up a "slow pace server" is much more expensive and time intense than you simply figuring out what you want before launch.
    Additionally by playing the Beta you will find out whether you actually fall as far behind as you think you would.

    With that said I know it would not be everyone's desire to play on a server like that because they want to get to end game fast

    *to play at their own pace as intended by the developer. It'S not about "ending the game fast". Intrepid wouldn't design the games content to be

    Competition is the center of a PvP based MMO but a fair fight is needed.

    This game is not going to be centered around PvP. A fight where someone better prepared has the upper hand is not "unfair". I'll elaborate on this in my final conclusion.

    This could also be good for RP players since the progression would feel more realistic as you would progressive over a longer period of time seeing your character age with the game

    I don't think there is real merit to the idea that reducing the potential progression of the game would help an RP server. One could argue that differences in progression are what could make up the basis for a "hero of the realm" RP narrative. "Look at the speed with which Tjarven has honed his skills and outgrown the other empires. With him amongst our ranks, nothing can stop us!"


    Conclusion

    I think the actual "problem" here is that you want to keep pace with the leading figures in content discovery and PvP, while having important duties in real life that prevent you from participating as much as someone without these responsibilities could. Last time I checked many people would probably envy you for having a family that rely on you, having a job that can do more than finance a small apartment and a computer on which to run a simulation of a better life in a world that values you more. Exchanging family life for screen time is a privilege, what does it matter if you aren't at the pinnacle of virtual world no. 1947302173?

    As a matter of fact, even if someone plays 100 hours a week they will not be able to participate in everything Ashes has to offer as content is regionalized. Additionally the idea of the game being PvP centered is off, this game is PvX, meaning trying to do only one or the other will lead to you missing out on what Intrepid wants to offer players.

    If you want to hear my "advice" after all of that: Stop worrying about keeping up with the hardcore gamers, get a Beta key to figure out what you want to play if thats so important to you, go to the guild recruitment tab of the forum to find people who play as much as you do so you can align with future ingame peers and enjoy the game at the pace you are able to play it in. Expecting the developer to slow it down so you can be at the top to is not the way to go here.
    The answer is probably >>> HERE <<<
  • tautautautau Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Recall that AoC will not have a traditional 'end game.' For example, if a metropolis falls, all the vassal nodes revert to level 1 Crossroads and we again have a race to level them up to determine which becomes the dominant node, so the content around these low level nodes reverts to new player levels. This includes not only the mobs but also the dungeons.

    In the last livestream, they mentioned that players could fight the Boss if they were +/- nine levels to the Boss' level, so if a Crossroads gets a level 20 boss, it must be fought by level 11 to 29 players. Killing boss content will contribute to levelling up the node, high level players won't be able to do this and the high levels likely will see hunting low mobs to level a node as a waste of valuable time to exp. While alts could be used, new players will be useful and can party with the alts.

    This is just one example of how new players will have content even if they join years after release. In addition, low level content will always be spread throughout the map, unlike in many games (such as L2) where map design essentially segregated new players into newbie areas of the map where they rarely interacted with higher level players.
  • KorelaKorela Member
    tautau wrote: »
    Recall that AoC will not have a traditional 'end game.' For example, if a metropolis falls, all the vassal nodes revert to level 1 Crossroads and we again have a race to level them up to determine which becomes the dominant node, so the content around these low level nodes reverts to new player levels. This includes not only the mobs but also the dungeons.

    In the last livestream, they mentioned that players could fight the Boss if they were +/- nine levels to the Boss' level, so if a Crossroads gets a level 20 boss, it must be fought by level 11 to 29 players. Killing boss content will contribute to levelling up the node, high level players won't be able to do this and the high levels likely will see hunting low mobs to level a node as a waste of valuable time to exp. While alts could be used, new players will be useful and can party with the alts.

    This is just one example of how new players will have content even if they join years after release. In addition, low level content will always be spread throughout the map, unlike in many games (such as L2) where map design essentially segregated new players into newbie areas of the map where they rarely interacted with higher level players.

    "High level players" can create low lvl alts to farm every boss on the map >:)
  • tautautautau Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    ....which is why I mentioned using alts in my post, thanks!
  • BaSkA_9x2 wrote: »
    One problem most MMORPGs have and I don't think Ashes will be completely safe from is how lower level/under geared characters (i.e. new players) are, like you mentioned, not very useful once a good portion of the server population reaches cap and is farming for BiS gear.

    However, adding a daily/weekly EXP cap on specific servers like you suggested is not a solution to this problem, as that only solves the issue for the first month(s) after launch. What about one year after launch? How will any new player, casual or hardcore, feel motivated to play the game in this age of instant gratification?

    Many in this forum believe Ashes doesn't need carebears to succeed, and while that may be true, hopefully everybody agrees that any game needs new players to survive, at least if you wanna play it for a long time (which I do). So, really, what Intrepid needs to worry about is how to make the game enticing for new players once most of the server has hit cap.

    So even though I have nothing against different servers with different rulesets, I don't care because I won't play them, I don't think it's the solution to the real problem at hand.

    it doesn't even solve it during the first month. if you and your friends are level 30 and you reroll, you will never, never catch up because you have a limit on how much exp you can get per week or day and if you miss a day that can never be recovered (example, forsaken world).

    the only way you could catch up (before max level of course) is if the system prevents players from leveling for a while, like revelations online. you had different level caps and people couldn't progress for weeks until a server event had been completed which required tons of players. then repeat it for the next level cap.

    anyways @Ridiric someone progressing faster doesnt mean you cant progress or enjoy the game at your own pace. it will just take you a lil while to get there..also most people wont play 10 hours a day..most people a good 3~ hours a day.
  • MarcetMarcet Member
    What about people who start playing months after release? They will have a -500 hours disadvantage with everyone, they are gonna die and be a lot behind.

    Most people don't want to become the "elite", that's not the reason why people want to play on a normal server without restrictions.
    If someone wants to play 12 hours a day good for him, if somebody works and plays only 2 hours a day, good for him. That's variety on the living, role-playing world of an MMO.

    Of course I don't want new players to be abused too much. But there's something beautiful when seeing an
    elitist guild of ultra dedicated mega-nerds that are the first to beat the challenges of the game and everybody knows them. Gives a lot of depth to the server's social aspect.
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    So just to be clear @Ridiric, you only care about high character levels?

    Basically, if you make a 'Casual' Throttled Server and tell me to play on it, and I still had 8-12h a day to play, then Artisan Professions, Exploring, Build Testing, Alts, Node Management, and Caravans all become more important.

    I'm asking because this might be entirely fine with you, that the paths to power shift to 'things other than being high level', and I can even see it working in Ashes, but because of this, the 'problem' of hardcore players becoming considerably more powerful doesn't really go away, they just change their path to power, and 'casual' players actually don't often end up able to compete, still.

    There are a lot of systems in Ashes that interlink 'power sources' such that 'throttling' would only really matter if you throttled all of them, some of them are borderline impossible to throttle without making the game unfun.

    And we know that there will be no 'Energy' system or similar which is the way certain games do it. So, is your concern only 'level 20 vs level 33', or the entirety of 'Reward for 10 hour gaming days vs Reward for 2 hour gaming days'?
    Sorry, my native language is Erlang.
    
  • Unfortunately, that's the nature of what it means to be a true MMO. How good you are relates strongly with how much time you invest into the game. It's a world that rewards you for spending time in it. And just like anything, in order for people to be at the top there must be those at the bottom. If you allow everyone at the bottom to simply remove themselves from the world at large and instead play on their own "Casual Server", then you lessen the reward of everyone else who made it to the top. MMOs rely on an ecosystem of players across the spectrum to make the world feel alive. It's not the same as a competitive match based game, which more or less being "the best" just means you've made it to the top X% on a chart of nameless datapoints.

    So, sorry to say it, but you're at the point in your life where you have become the fodder for the new generation. With your limited time, you likely will never compete among any top players in Ashes. You will be relegated to enjoy your simple life, playing at a casual pace, enjoying the story and scenery, hanging out with other casual friends in your guild created for casuals. You'll look to the top players walking around in town in their glorious ultra rare armor and think "Man, that guy is cool" and he'll randomly trade you a bunch of free stuff because he feels bad for you and he's so rich he doesn't need it. He's 14 and you're 37, but neither of you knows that. And such is life.
    f51pcwlbgn8a.png
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    Plenty of casual paced mmos out there. Dont know why this is even a discussion when the Devs said that there will be many servers to cover the globe, but none for special rules.
  • CawwCaww Member
    No thank you to this idea in its entirety.

    Many players have limited play windows in which to crank out some XP and should not be blocked with "cool-downs". I'm referring to people who plan to use vacation time, long weekends or even seasonal players (players whose work schedules have no available time for months at a time).
  • tautautautau Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    @superhero6785

    May I respectfully point out one minor flaw in your above post, where you referred to the 'next generation'? While young school age kids do have more time (but perhaps less money) than those with significant jobs and perhaps family responsibilities...who has even more free time and financial resources?

    What if someone is retired, at 50, 60 or 70 and has both a great deal of free time and plenty of financial resources, plus 20+ years of game experience? They may also have other relevant experience, such as leadership, economics or manufacturing which a 'kid' cannot imitate.

    These old farts are the ones who may rule this game.
  • tautau wrote: »
    @superhero6785

    May I respectfully point out one minor flaw in your above post, where you referred to the 'next generation'? While young school age kids do have more time (but perhaps less money) than those with significant jobs and perhaps family responsibilities...who has even more free time and financial resources?

    What if someone is retired, at 50, 60 or 70 and has both a great deal of free time and plenty of financial resources, plus 20+ years of game experience? They may also have other relevant experience, such as leadership, economics or manufacturing which a 'kid' cannot imitate.

    These old farts are the ones who may rule this game.

    Well that is very true. There are gamers of all ages these days, and 'retired gamers' will only continue to be a growing section.
    f51pcwlbgn8a.png
  • I would rather see a server with significantly slower exp gains across the board. That way a casual could potentially play for a year and still not be max level. Leveling is typically the best casual content in mmos
  • I'm also a casual player, not by choice but because I work long hours. I've never been a very hardcore mmo gamer either, but I LOVE them. I'm comfortable without being the baddest in town, as long as I do still have peers around my level to interact with meaningfully.

    Guild wars 2 is an interesting example of how to handle large amounts of high level characters and low amounts of low level characters.

    But honestly it's more about mindset, you have to come to terms with your situation instead of letting the FOMO take over. Like right now I'm working in another city and don't have access to my gaming pc, just my okay laptop. I can't play Diablo 4 right now. My fiance is getting a few dozen levels head start on me right now and I wish I could play, but I'm not asking her to stop enjoying the game how she wants to just because I can't do the same.
  • superhero6785superhero6785 Member
    edited June 2023
    Austrinaut wrote: »
    I'm also a casual player, not by choice but because I work long hours. I've never been a very hardcore mmo gamer either, but I LOVE them. I'm comfortable without being the baddest in town, as long as I do still have peers around my level to interact with meaningfully.

    Guild wars 2 is an interesting example of how to handle large amounts of high level characters and low amounts of low level characters.

    But honestly it's more about mindset, you have to come to terms with your situation instead of letting the FOMO take over. Like right now I'm working in another city and don't have access to my gaming pc, just my okay laptop. I can't play Diablo 4 right now. My fiance is getting a few dozen levels head start on me right now and I wish I could play, but I'm not asking her to stop enjoying the game how she wants to just because I can't do the same.

    Absolutely it's 100% a mindset. You have to come to terms with the type of player you can be, by choice or not. It's up to Ashes to ensure there is fun and engaging content for ALL levels to enjoy, regardless if it's 1 week, 1 month, or 1 year after launch. Too often the "goal" of an MMO is to get to max level, THEN enjoy the game.
    f51pcwlbgn8a.png
  • When I mentioned limit XP per week/month I imagined it going up each week/month to a level cap server wide. Not capping each character a certain amount of levels since birth. It just prevents players from maxing at a fast pace day and night. While Nodes do this for the area I don't see how this is going to effect players.

    Comments saying you have to come to limits with the type of player or time I have is a lazy statement. If developers would have different servers people would play on them to avoid certain players. In the begainning we did that PvP, PvE, RP and I know this has its own style but for Example I wish I could play on servers with people at certain age brackets, or skill levels or time restraints. The idea of a player with 2000 hours vs a player with 200 hours attacking each other is crazy. Its like having a High School Football team play a NFL team. They don't have the talent or experience yet. Sure it can be done but is it a fair playing field.

    The statement can be made to just enjoy the game but as you have seen with all the other MMO released recently each had their own issue. If one could truly play the game how they wanted to example casual, then I believe people would stick longer and enjoy it more in general. Hardcore players will like the game regardless because that is what they do. Play games all day. Casual players want to play the game a couple hours in the evening about 50% of the week and just enjoy a journey with some friends.

    Hopefully this will be the case but it wouldn't surprise me if another MMO gets ruined by a fan base of Egamers generation hooked on META and Speed runs.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    You pay for the casual server. Fan..
  • As soon as you separate player bases, you diminish the game. Same goes for trying to make separate PvE and PvP servers. Just play at your own pace and don't worry about others. If it doesn't turn out to be for you, find a game better suited for you.
    GJjUGHx.gif
  • Send this necro thread back to where it came from.
    The answer is probably >>> HERE <<<
  • The solution is finding people who have a similar play style to yours and the game itself having progression paths both you and your friends enjoy partaking in. Ashes needs to facilitate you (and players like you) finding each other in a positive manner.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Korela wrote: »
    "High level players" can create low lvl alts to farm every boss on the map >:)
    Players with high level characters?? Is that what you mean?
    Can't any player create low level alts to farm every boss on the map?
    Why is this a concern?
  • CawwCaww Member
    But what if you lose your job, get divorced and develop cancer: you are no longer a casual player but the toon is still restricted to the slow server.
  • Dygz wrote: »
    Korela wrote: »
    "High level players" can create low lvl alts to farm every boss on the map >:)
    Players with high level characters?? Is that what you mean?
    Can't any player create low level alts to farm every boss on the map?
    Why is this a concern?

    Yes. And yes. No concerns. I just see no bosses for "new players" if bosses are important for player with high level characters and low level alts. But if bosses are just big mobs with mid loot and no important quests or consequences, then it doesn't matter.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Ashes is dynamic, rather than static.
    It's not the kind of game where you reach max level Adventurer and then just farm the exact same bosses repeatedly because there is nothing else to do until the next expansion.
  • Dygz wrote: »
    Ashes is dynamic, rather than static.

    I think you are overestimating the "dynamic"ness. Or I am underestimating it. Because I see it more as marketing tool. The MMORPG is hard to be "dynamic" enough to change dramatically with every action. I think this will happen in very rare cases, for example when changing the level of a node once a ~month, which will open or close several locations and that's all. Happy to be wrong.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    I mean... we will have to see if the IS devs can successfully implement the design. Yes.
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