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Thoughts on a Loot System idea
superhero6785
Member
Ok so I'm thinking of some other guild loot systems. This is not an in-game suggestion. I'd use Master Loot & manage it with 3rd party system.
1) add items to roll for
2) everyone in party is awarded 1 roll every time an item is added.
3) players can choose to spend rolls on items they want. They can spend additional rolls to re-rolls, or save their rolls altogether.
4) items nobody rolls on at the end of the raid go into the guild bank & will be rolled for during guild meetings using people's saved rolls.
Benefits:
1) Award players extra rolls for participating in guild meetings & events.
2) Higher players are rewarded for helping lower players with raids by simply saving all of their rolls since loot is likely not needed. Spend it on re-rolls during regular raids.
3) Maintain some "luck" in looting, rather than going to a "purchasing/bidding" model of DKP which loses some of the excitement.
Do you like it? Hate it? Suggestions?
1) add items to roll for
2) everyone in party is awarded 1 roll every time an item is added.
3) players can choose to spend rolls on items they want. They can spend additional rolls to re-rolls, or save their rolls altogether.
4) items nobody rolls on at the end of the raid go into the guild bank & will be rolled for during guild meetings using people's saved rolls.
Benefits:
1) Award players extra rolls for participating in guild meetings & events.
2) Higher players are rewarded for helping lower players with raids by simply saving all of their rolls since loot is likely not needed. Spend it on re-rolls during regular raids.
3) Maintain some "luck" in looting, rather than going to a "purchasing/bidding" model of DKP which loses some of the excitement.
Do you like it? Hate it? Suggestions?
1
Comments
A really serious guild would probably not use it, but I think it might be particularly good for a tight-knit node-guild if the rules on 'how you get extra rolls' were clear enough to not start drama.
For all those people who really like RNG, it's probably great.
Me personally being part of it, I'd hate it, because I know I'd reroll like 10 times on the only item I actually want, use all my rolls, and then spend my next roll randomly on something I don't care about much just for money and 'win big'.
RNG-gated achievement is my enemy.
I think that might be a system that could also be associated with religion (e.g. The God of Fate) to bind it into the lore of Verra.
I wonder if it would be an interesting idea to make this a caravan quest back to a Node since items are supposed to not move around "magically" in Ashes as far as I can tell.
A question though:
Could a guild member help anyone to acquire rolls or does it have to be support for a certain number of guild members within the party/raid the high level player is assisting?
Also: If a level 50 player were to assist a level 25 raid, do they always get a "full" roll? Because they could "farm" those rolls, participate in a high level raid once and take a lot of loot that other members would argue had worked harder for by participating in the high level raid more often.
So maybe there has to be a tiered system.
Suggestion:
By participating in a raid that is aimed at level 10-29 you get a bronze dice
By participating in a raid that is aimed at level 30-49 you get a silver dice
By participating in a raid that is aimed at level 50 you get a golden dice
5 bronze dice can be used to get a silver dice
5 silver dice can be used to get a golden dice
That would give players participating in the higher tier raids a "higher yield" in form of golden dice compared to someone who "just" assists lower level guild members, but without taking the rewards from those who train lower level guild members. It should definitely be rewarded to help others and that aspect of your idea is brilliant.
How do you ensure that the bonus rolls given for helping others are fairly distributed?
It seems to me a difficult system to implement.
And then you have to track all Bonus rolls for not rolling a long time ? i think this system would need a lot of tracking there were addons for tracking stuff like this in WoW but without addons allowed in Ashes it would be really hard to keep this System up.
I do think this kind of system has good potential overall, but I'm not completely sure how it would work out in Ashes (depending on the kind of drop design Intrepid land on).
[Could a guild member help anyone to acquire rolls or does it have to be support for a certain number of guild members within the party/raid the high level player is assisting?
- I'm thinking of using this for scheduled raid nights with guild members (and perhaps the occasional "guest"). I think this would not completely replace all looting for the guild, so for example if you wanted to run some impromptu dungeons with a mix of guildies and randoms, you would just use the in-game need/greed system and nobody would acquire any "rolls" within our guild loot system. So at that point if a higher level wanted to assist, it would probably be out of their own good will, or some other payment by the party directly.
If a level 50 player were to assist a level 25 raid, do they always get a "full" roll? Because they could "farm" those rolls
- This is something that would have to be monitored. Perhaps on a discretion basis by raid leaders, offering only partial rolls, or no rolls at all for menial tasks.
How will you keep track of it? Saved rolls, total rolls, etc...It seems to me a difficult system to implement.
- Just like DKP or other Loot systems, it will have to be tracked and monitored by people within the guild who have been given permission to do so. Sometimes this is as rudimentary as a spreadsheet. Personally, I'm working on building something directly into a guild website/app that will manage it all.
But what if not a single Item drops at this Run ? do you get to keep all your rolls ? because you wouldnt roll anyway if nothing dropped cause of bad luck.
- Exactly! This system retains more of the luck factor and doesn't just turn farming dungeons into a pure numbers game like DKP. I'm thinking you'd set the in-game loot settings to round robin for normal-rare items, and Loot Master only Legendary items. This is going to depend on how much in-game control we have for loot. But basically, you'd earn 1 roll for each item that dropped which met that threshold. If a party of 8 gets 3 Legendary drops during a dungeon, each player will earn 3 rolls which they can spend 1 roll on each item, or all 3 on just 1 item, or roll once and save the other 2 for later, etc.
i think this system would need a lot of tracking there were addons for tracking stuff like this in WoW but without addons allowed in Ashes it would be really hard to keep this System up.
- Yes it is requiring a lot of thought, but I'm working on building an app to help manage it all.
I expect bosses to drop mats as well, so how would that work with this system?
- Great point! I guess this will depend how mats are treated in the loot table. A legendary mat may be just as valuable as a legendary item that drops, and worthy of rolling all the same. Or, maybe mats just get lumped into the round robin with other normal-rare items, or split equally? I think that could go many different ways depending on how it shakes out.
All for different kinds of loot systems. But your suggestion loses value right there in your OP. Intrepid has been pretty clear over the years that there won't be 3rd party tools implemented for Ashes. If they think something is needed, they will add it, and it would be managed on their end. They have plans for robust guild management options, so some sort of "DKP" system might actually make it in. And as always, consult the wiki. The multiple loot systems they have on offer already listed there.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Looting
I'm not saying an integrated addon for Ashes. I know they've already said they won't support any 3rd party addons. I'm saying a 3rd party tool, as in like - an app on your phone and a website - where you can manage everyone's rolls and guild loot (also Integrated with Discord). I'm less concerned with how it will be managed, or how easy it will be, because I'm building that myself so I can make it do exactly what I need. I'm more concerned with the actual practice of how this loot system would work, and if people like the idea of "saving up rolls" rather than stockpiling DKP for bidding, and what things I may be missing or overlooking with a system like that, or if it could be abused in some way as other's have already raised concerns.
- FFA
- Master Looter
- DKP
More bureaucratic? Oh boy, not was I was shooting for
I mean, DKP is awarded to members for various participation, either in raids or guild events or for other reasons...All the same reason someone could be awarded "rolls" under this system.
In my mind, it's perhaps not less bureaucratic, but why do you think it's more? I'd love to address it to make it better.
Which is fine, just take a basic DKP system and add a spreadsheet. Coke, Sprite, and Root Beer are good options, I don’t think the game needs to offer cherry Vanilla Coke.
what about GKP, i know in wow classic it was pretty much the go-to system after first couple phases and i don't think anyone ever did any pug raids with /roll or anything else but GKP. I thought it was a neat idea but obviously it's plagued now because of all the RMT, if this game can regulate RMT correctly, it'll be a pretty nice system right? the geared players can carry low geared characters for earlier raid loot and earn gold
I know there was even guilds that were created that exclusively ran with GKP as their loot system, mostly filled with people's alts though. Seeing as this game doesn't look quite alt-friendly do you think it won't be as viable?
Yeah I'm thinking of the best way to allow "guests" to use it as well, without becoming a hassle. I'm using Discord federated login, so people would at least be verified, and if someone does some shady stuff we could flag them so future parties are aware. I suppose the system would be available to use in PUGs, but you wouldn't acquire rolls to save, you'd just spend them all during that raid and then they're gone. I suppose it wouldn't be much more effort to allow everyone to place their gold bids for each item listed as well and then distribute at the end. I'll add that...