The biggest impact would probably be the money inflow into the node. Outside of that - just more players will have "weaker" freeholds instead of guilds owning super optimized ones. So in a way that money inflow would probably balance out with the lower node decay points gain.
That means the players in guilds will be able to get both freeholds and the weaker ones in the guild halls?
I would think yes, the individuals could still get there own just like everyone else. I think the idea is that the min max crowd has an alternative route which will free up spots for others.
This way folks who actually want a freehold are competing against others who want freeholds which is fair. Massive groups have alternative methods if they are only interested in processing.
That means the players in guilds will be able to get both freeholds and the weaker ones in the guild halls?
In theory yes. If a guild is strong enough to outfarm everyone around several times over then yeah. They'll get their GH and then get a ton of FHs for their members. But this would be the case in the current system either way, except even more FHs would be bought up.
yes but freeholds are more limited in the amount of people that can access them, and probably also in the amount of things you can be processing at the same time and you cant have the entire guild there
yes but freeholds are more limited in the amount of people that can access them, and probably also in the amount of things you can be processing at the same time and you cant have the entire guild there
Which is why they are incentivized to buy them out.
Thats the whole issue. This is an economic discussion, not a philosophic one. Just follow the incentives.
yes but freeholds are more limited in the amount of people that can access them, and probably also in the amount of things you can be processing at the same time and you cant have the entire guild there
And there's a limited amount of GHs available and there'd be way more pvp around/for them so it'd be more dangerous to farm it.
yes but freeholds are more limited in the amount of people that can access them, and probably also in the amount of things you can be processing at the same time and you cant have the entire guild there
And there's a limited amount of GHs available and there'd be way more pvp around/for them so it'd be more dangerous to farm it.
pking someone on their fh or gh, away from mobs your level to drop corruption seems like a bad idea. people dont even have to fight back and just focus on gathering..also you run the risk of a million guildmates killing you instantly as soon as you flag. im nto against gh, just dont wanna c everything be done in them or that removes the purposes of other systems.
i mean dont get me wrong, if it was another game, then sure, but not for aoc
0
Options
HumblePuffinMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
yes but freeholds are more limited in the amount of people that can access them, and probably also in the amount of things you can be processing at the same time and you cant have the entire guild there
6 building slots available other than the home, 2 buildings required to max out a profession, 9 processing professions in total.
So if a guild wants to min max their processing ability with all processing professions they need would need a minimum of 3 freeholds. Some of those artisan buildings may be considered “large” and take up more space so let’s say 4 to be safe with maybe some space left over for the basic gathering professions or a business.
The node taxes-per permit seem like they could be a decent lever to help ensure that it’s more beneficial to build up instead of out. Maybe something like tax breaks for multiple artisan building on a plot? That way it’s more expensive to spread out the guilds operation across more than that minimum required amount.
pking someone on their fh or gh, away from mobs your level to drop corruption seems like a bad idea. people dont even have to fight back and just focus on gathering..also you run the risk of a million guildmates killing you instantly as soon as you flag. im nto against gh, just dont wanna c everything be done in them or that removes the purposes of other systems.
Removes them how and for who though? The guilds will just use FHs and require you to pk their processors instead of just declaring a war on the whole guild and pressuring their main process/craft hub.
This would bring pvp into the guild-based artisan activities and would make it harder for big guilds to control everything around them. They'd need to split their resources between protecting their artisans on their GH and trying to overtake dungeons and/or other activities.
In other words, it seems like you want to make guilds' lives easier, while casuals get fucked over, all while removing cool pvp and guild competition from the game.
0
Options
RavicusMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
pking someone on their fh or gh, away from mobs your level to drop corruption seems like a bad idea. people dont even have to fight back and just focus on gathering..also you run the risk of a million guildmates killing you instantly as soon as you flag. im nto against gh, just dont wanna c everything be done in them or that removes the purposes of other systems.
Removes them how and for who though? The guilds will just use FHs and require you to pk their processors instead of just declaring a war on the whole guild and pressuring their main process/craft hub.
This would bring pvp into the guild-based artisan activities and would make it harder for big guilds to control everything around them. They'd need to split their resources between protecting their artisans on their GH and trying to overtake dungeons and/or other activities.
In other words, it seems like you want to make guilds' lives easier, while casuals get fucked over, all while removing cool pvp and guild competition from the game.
there are always casuals in guilds also. Do you mean solo players?
there are always casuals in guilds also. Do you mean solo players?
Casual guilds would most likely not get the GHs. But the system I propose would increase their chances of getting a few freeholds of their own, so that they can do the processing they'd want. Mainly because the stronger guilds would compete for the GH with their money, instead of spending it on several FHs per guild (+any of the members who want to get their own).
1
Options
RavicusMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
there are always casuals in guilds also. Do you mean solo players?
Casual guilds would most likely not get the GHs. But the system I propose would increase their chances of getting a few freeholds of their own, so that they can do the processing they'd want. Mainly because the stronger guilds would compete for the GH with their money, instead of spending it on several FHs per guild (+any of the members who want to get their own).
ahh, so when you said this you meant casual guilds: "In other words, it seems like you want to make guilds' lives easier, while casuals get fucked over, all while removing cool pvp and guild competition from the game." When you said casuals I thought you meant unguilded people.
ahh, so when you said this you meant casual guilds: "In other words, it seems like you want to make guilds' lives easier, while casuals get fucked over, all while removing cool pvp and guild competition from the game." When you said casuals I thought you meant unguilded people.
It includes them as well. Tying up strong guilds' money into GHs would help small-mid guilds and solo/casual players, because more FHs would be available.
It would also sink even more of those strong guilds' resources, so it's not a single-time thing.
That means the players in guilds will be able to get both freeholds and the weaker ones in the guild halls?
In theory yes. If a guild is strong enough to outfarm everyone around several times over then yeah. They'll get their GH and then get a ton of FHs for their members. But this would be the case in the current system either way, except even more FHs would be bought up.
I think guilds should have better more efficient freeholds.
But not better looking.
Just like in real life, industrial & efficient way of growing animals is not like a medieval farm.
If the less efficient ones would look better then some players might be happy.
yes but freeholds are more limited in the amount of people that can access them, and probably also in the amount of things you can be processing at the same time and you cant have the entire guild there
And there's a limited amount of GHs available and there'd be way more pvp around/for them so it'd be more dangerous to farm it.
i dont think people relise how limited they are currently too by info we have :P
Currently there 45 guildhall total on a server with the info we currently have.
(https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Nodes)
5 T6 nodes total (15 GH)
10 T5 nodes total (20GH)
10 R4 nodes total (10 GH
20 T3 nodes total (0GH)
Every other node is 0-2 nodes
much competition for these it seems
major guilds will probaly focus there farming to acquire these before freeholds aswell which does allot smaller guilds or solo players possibvily to snap up more freehold while guild save/fight for a GH
yes but freeholds are more limited in the amount of people that can access them, and probably also in the amount of things you can be processing at the same time and you cant have the entire guild there
And there's a limited amount of GHs available and there'd be way more pvp around/for them so it'd be more dangerous to farm it.
i dont think people relise how limited they are currently too by info we have :P
Currently there 45 guildhall total on a server with the info we currently have.
(https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Nodes)
5 T6 nodes total (15 GH)
10 T5 nodes total (20GH)
10 R4 nodes total (10 GH
20 T3 nodes total (0GH)
Every other node is 0-2 nodes
much competition for these it seems
major guilds will probaly focus there farming to acquire these before freeholds aswell which does allot smaller guilds or solo players possibvily to snap up more freehold while guild save/fight for a GH
So 9 guild halls for one T6 nation
Maybe is ok. Too many will fragment the nation into small groups.
Kinda sucks, but I think the only way they can make it possible for casuals to win bids, and without making the system entirely intolerable, is to make it hidden information, one-time bidding. So you don't know who you're bidding against, or how much you need to beat them. You just bid however much you think the plot is worth. Some rich players will overspend, but at least it will go to the node. And some casuals might be able to win some under-valued plots with less competition.
It's better than making really fast auctions (that people might completely miss) or introducing any kind of randomness. And it's works better for casuals than making other requirements that require a ton of play time or friends.
I'm fine if it just stays as a guilds-and-rich-people-only thing. Just saying, if they wanted to make it more of a gamble that casuals might win, I think it should be done by making the bids hidden.
Guild Halls can be destroyed in Guild Wars. It would be a terrible idea to put everything a guild owns onto a single Guild freehold plot.
Nope, only through node siege Whereas the guild hall is a structure similar to freehold structure can only be taken through successful sieges against a node per-se are not taken but destroyed https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Guild_wars
Guild forts might be the "steal your girl" type of deal and would be way more competitive. Though I'd love if forts were pretty much the same as my idea for halls (with halls still being like I said), but just better defended. Smaller "castle sieges" on a more regular and frequent basis between strong (but not top) guilds would be great.
And the upgrades for that fort would stay, just as they do with blueprints after your FH (and I'd assume GH?) dies. So there'd be constant battles for them, cause they'd be super valuable.
Now I've hyped myself up for a shitton of cool pvp which will never happen
How can we be certain when the references are from 2018? I thought Fortresses were Guild Halls ever since 2018. Thus, the situation must have changed if the Guild Halls aren't linked to the Guild Fortresses. Seems there will be three guild sites rather than two: Guild Hall, Guild Fortress and Guild Castle. Not sure what I would prefer to hit in a guild war.
How can we be certain when the references are from 2018? I thought Fortresses were Guild Halls ever since 2018. Thus, the situation must have changed if the Guild Halls aren't linked to the Guild Fortresses. Seems there will be three guild sites rather than two: Guild Hall, Guild Fortress and Guild Castle. Not sure what I would prefer to hit in a guild war.
Fortresses were up in the air back then, so if anything, I'd imagine that we just won't be able to siege guild stuff, outside of castles.
How can we be certain when the references are from 2018? I thought Fortresses were Guild Halls ever since 2018. Thus, the situation must have changed if the Guild Halls aren't linked to the Guild Fortresses. Seems there will be three guild sites rather than two: Guild Hall, Guild Fortress and Guild Castle. Not sure what I would prefer to hit in a guild war.
Fortresses were up in the air back then, so if anything, I'd imagine that we just won't be able to siege guild stuff, outside of castles.
Yeah, makes sense. I don't mind the ability to raid but if the barony covers multiple freeholds then wouldn't all the freeholds in the barony be able to be raided at the same time?
How can we be certain when the references are from 2018? I thought Fortresses were Guild Halls ever since 2018. Thus, the situation must have changed if the Guild Halls aren't linked to the Guild Fortresses. Seems there will be three guild sites rather than two: Guild Hall, Guild Fortress and Guild Castle. Not sure what I would prefer to hit in a guild war.
Fortresses were up in the air back then, so if anything, I'd imagine that we just won't be able to siege guild stuff, outside of castles.
I kinda hope Guild Fortresses becomes a thing, it would be very nice to have more siegeable points of interest other than castles for guilds, Like L2's Fortresses.
I'm not really sure what the exact purpose of a guild hall is at this point to be honest.
The wiki states that they are the "focal point" of a guild and "their ultimate expression of power".
Depending on what exactly that is supposed to mean, different benefits and limitations would make sense.
My comments relate primarily to your intent to have guilds invest huge amounts of money into these parcels rather than gobbling up "regular" freehold parcels.
- the bidding system for them should be completely open (we see who and how much have bid)
- the money from all bids go towards the node's treasury and do not return to the guilds (even if they lost the bid)
Interesting idea, but that would provide massive opportunity for bypassing the money funnel and instead cut deals to keep prices low. Maybe this could be restricted to highest offices of the Node (like mayor, bishop etc)?
The starting bid should be fairly small
I think it would make sense to couple this to the wealth of the guilds in the region. If all the guilds have an average of 100G in the bank, a starting bid of 20G would make sense, if guilds have amassed each over 10'000G it would make sense to have a higher starting bid. Especially
GHs should be able to have all processing, crafting and business buildings available in the game at the same time
If the amount of Freeholds is so low that it seriously inhibits the economy and increasing their number is not possible. yes. By default however I think it seems to me that also having limitations on the sidebuildings that can be built (if any can be built at all) should be strict as well.
GHs should have their own apartments with up to 300 rooms (depending on the upgrade tier)
Yes, however full 300 bedrooms should lock the guild out of other features (e.g. no alchemist laboratory or some other processing facility)
GHs should have huge lands for farming
That I would agree with, provided that we indeed have no other large scale option for farming other than the freehold. (I don not count the public farming spaces of Nodes into that, because I doubt the will be large scale)
the bidding process for the entire Barony ends with GH's bid (so all freeholds will have been sold by that time)
I'm not sure how I understand that. Should a Node only start offering guild hall parcels once it has reached its current Tier cap or should a Node start offering guild hall parcels once all currently available freehold slots have been sold?
the last bid's time is random for all the participants within the last hour of the whole process (i.e. guild A can bid at 19:20, g B at 19:35 and g C at 19:55, while the bidding stops at 20:00)
Adding randomness on the last bid for such a huge investment sounds like a giant disincentive to guilds in my opinion.
Overall, I think many of these points make sense, but only under certain circumstances and provided that they are aligned with the intended purpose of a guild hall, which seems to me is not clear yet. What I would have thought so far a guild hall would contain would be a treasure room for guild members to story items and gold at as well as selct guild members being allowed to take out and allocate the stored resources. Furthermore I thought there would be some kind of high ranked cooking facility, housing and black board for guild members to organize at.
I hope for Intrepid to clarify what exactly a Guild Hall should provide to guilds that makes them want to even have one, because making it a giant warehouse alone wouldn't be exactly attractive.
RavicusMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
@killion I guess I do not get into the cost and bids of purchasing a guild house. What I would do is limits some of the things you mentioned. A guild house to me should not have everything a freehold has. I think it should be a functional building. It could have a barracks (housing) OR crafting stations. I think the primary use for a guild house is the buffs it provides. I do not think it should be tied to the farm plots for farming or ranching. It just does not tie into what I picture a guild hall would be. I would picture in my mind a fighting training yard with targets and such. Possibly a controlled pvp arena for training. I am just spitballing here and just started my morning coffee lol.
@killion I guess I do not get into the cost and bids of purchasing a guild house. What I would do is limits some of the things you mentioned. A guild house to me should not have everything a freehold has. I think it should be a functional building. It could have a barracks (housing) OR crafting stations. I think the primary use for a guild house is the buffs it provides. I do not think it should be tied to the farm plots for farming or ranching. It just does not tie into what I picture a guild hall would be. I would picture in my mind a fighting training yard with targets and such. Possibly a controlled pvp arena for training. I am just spitballing here and just started my morning coffee lol.
I think you hit the nail on the head with this one actually. There is a broad range of utilities a guild hall COULD provide depending on the type of players / the type of the guild all of which would make sense.
Which is why I would really hope that Intrepid either elaborates on guild hall during the coming livestream or in a future livestream/article, so that we can better understand the intended function of a guild hall.
"Ultimate Expression of a guilds power" definitely sounds more like the battle theme you have mentioned.
"Focal point of the guild" surely makes it sounds like there are utilities planned to organize and help the guild members with logistics. But so would offering some apartments
But we can't know for sure until we get Intrepid to clarify these vague descriptions. Though I assume they are this vague exactly because the definition is not yet solidified enough.
With that being said, maybe we could make up a definition of what a guild is and which features would be conducive towards that goal. In a separate post of course
Even if Guild Halls act like Freeholds and have room for processing stations and what-not, with a max of 45 GHs per server they barely make a dent in the demand. Freeholds are still going to be the domain of the bigger guilds and the RMT crowd unless they start leaning heavily into non-gold ways of acquisition.
Comments
I would think yes, the individuals could still get there own just like everyone else. I think the idea is that the min max crowd has an alternative route which will free up spots for others.
This way folks who actually want a freehold are competing against others who want freeholds which is fair. Massive groups have alternative methods if they are only interested in processing.
Which is why they are incentivized to buy them out.
Thats the whole issue. This is an economic discussion, not a philosophic one. Just follow the incentives.
pking someone on their fh or gh, away from mobs your level to drop corruption seems like a bad idea. people dont even have to fight back and just focus on gathering..also you run the risk of a million guildmates killing you instantly as soon as you flag. im nto against gh, just dont wanna c everything be done in them or that removes the purposes of other systems.
i mean dont get me wrong, if it was another game, then sure, but not for aoc
6 building slots available other than the home, 2 buildings required to max out a profession, 9 processing professions in total.
So if a guild wants to min max their processing ability with all processing professions they need would need a minimum of 3 freeholds. Some of those artisan buildings may be considered “large” and take up more space so let’s say 4 to be safe with maybe some space left over for the basic gathering professions or a business.
The node taxes-per permit seem like they could be a decent lever to help ensure that it’s more beneficial to build up instead of out. Maybe something like tax breaks for multiple artisan building on a plot? That way it’s more expensive to spread out the guilds operation across more than that minimum required amount.
This would bring pvp into the guild-based artisan activities and would make it harder for big guilds to control everything around them. They'd need to split their resources between protecting their artisans on their GH and trying to overtake dungeons and/or other activities.
In other words, it seems like you want to make guilds' lives easier, while casuals get fucked over, all while removing cool pvp and guild competition from the game.
there are always casuals in guilds also. Do you mean solo players?
ahh, so when you said this you meant casual guilds: "In other words, it seems like you want to make guilds' lives easier, while casuals get fucked over, all while removing cool pvp and guild competition from the game." When you said casuals I thought you meant unguilded people.
It would also sink even more of those strong guilds' resources, so it's not a single-time thing.
I think guilds should have better more efficient freeholds.
But not better looking.
Just like in real life, industrial & efficient way of growing animals is not like a medieval farm.
If the less efficient ones would look better then some players might be happy.
i dont think people relise how limited they are currently too by info we have :P
Currently there 45 guildhall total on a server with the info we currently have.
(https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Patron_guilds)
3 per T6 node
2 per T5 node
1 per T4 node
0 Per T3 node
(https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Nodes)
5 T6 nodes total (15 GH)
10 T5 nodes total (20GH)
10 R4 nodes total (10 GH
20 T3 nodes total (0GH)
Every other node is 0-2 nodes
much competition for these it seems
major guilds will probaly focus there farming to acquire these before freeholds aswell which does allot smaller guilds or solo players possibvily to snap up more freehold while guild save/fight for a GH
So 9 guild halls for one T6 nation
Maybe is ok. Too many will fragment the nation into small groups.
It's better than making really fast auctions (that people might completely miss) or introducing any kind of randomness. And it's works better for casuals than making other requirements that require a ton of play time or friends.
I'm fine if it just stays as a guilds-and-rich-people-only thing. Just saying, if they wanted to make it more of a gamble that casuals might win, I think it should be done by making the bids hidden.
How can we be certain when the references are from 2018? I thought Fortresses were Guild Halls ever since 2018. Thus, the situation must have changed if the Guild Halls aren't linked to the Guild Fortresses. Seems there will be three guild sites rather than two: Guild Hall, Guild Fortress and Guild Castle. Not sure what I would prefer to hit in a guild war.
Yeah, makes sense. I don't mind the ability to raid but if the barony covers multiple freeholds then wouldn't all the freeholds in the barony be able to be raided at the same time?
I kinda hope Guild Fortresses becomes a thing, it would be very nice to have more siegeable points of interest other than castles for guilds, Like L2's Fortresses.
Aren't we all sinners?
The wiki states that they are the "focal point" of a guild and "their ultimate expression of power".
Depending on what exactly that is supposed to mean, different benefits and limitations would make sense.
My comments relate primarily to your intent to have guilds invest huge amounts of money into these parcels rather than gobbling up "regular" freehold parcels.
Interesting idea, but that would provide massive opportunity for bypassing the money funnel and instead cut deals to keep prices low. Maybe this could be restricted to highest offices of the Node (like mayor, bishop etc)?
I think it would make sense to couple this to the wealth of the guilds in the region. If all the guilds have an average of 100G in the bank, a starting bid of 20G would make sense, if guilds have amassed each over 10'000G it would make sense to have a higher starting bid. Especially
If the amount of Freeholds is so low that it seriously inhibits the economy and increasing their number is not possible. yes. By default however I think it seems to me that also having limitations on the sidebuildings that can be built (if any can be built at all) should be strict as well.
Yes, however full 300 bedrooms should lock the guild out of other features (e.g. no alchemist laboratory or some other processing facility)
That I would agree with, provided that we indeed have no other large scale option for farming other than the freehold. (I don not count the public farming spaces of Nodes into that, because I doubt the will be large scale)
I'm not sure how I understand that. Should a Node only start offering guild hall parcels once it has reached its current Tier cap or should a Node start offering guild hall parcels once all currently available freehold slots have been sold?
Adding randomness on the last bid for such a huge investment sounds like a giant disincentive to guilds in my opinion.
Overall, I think many of these points make sense, but only under certain circumstances and provided that they are aligned with the intended purpose of a guild hall, which seems to me is not clear yet. What I would have thought so far a guild hall would contain would be a treasure room for guild members to story items and gold at as well as selct guild members being allowed to take out and allocate the stored resources. Furthermore I thought there would be some kind of high ranked cooking facility, housing and black board for guild members to organize at.
I hope for Intrepid to clarify what exactly a Guild Hall should provide to guilds that makes them want to even have one, because making it a giant warehouse alone wouldn't be exactly attractive.
I think you hit the nail on the head with this one actually. There is a broad range of utilities a guild hall COULD provide depending on the type of players / the type of the guild all of which would make sense.
Which is why I would really hope that Intrepid either elaborates on guild hall during the coming livestream or in a future livestream/article, so that we can better understand the intended function of a guild hall.
"Ultimate Expression of a guilds power" definitely sounds more like the battle theme you have mentioned.
"Focal point of the guild" surely makes it sounds like there are utilities planned to organize and help the guild members with logistics. But so would offering some apartments
But we can't know for sure until we get Intrepid to clarify these vague descriptions. Though I assume they are this vague exactly because the definition is not yet solidified enough.
With that being said, maybe we could make up a definition of what a guild is and which features would be conducive towards that goal. In a separate post of course
Even if Guild Halls act like Freeholds and have room for processing stations and what-not, with a max of 45 GHs per server they barely make a dent in the demand. Freeholds are still going to be the domain of the bigger guilds and the RMT crowd unless they start leaning heavily into non-gold ways of acquisition.