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The Workings of Processing Stations and how they tie into scarcity.
Nerror
Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
First, please read the wiki: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Processing_stations
My first question to you all is, do you think processing stations should be "instanced" per player, so to speak, or not?
For example, if a processing station is instanced, player A can enter the fuel and the materials and simply wait the amount of hours or days before the goods are done. Meanwhile, player B that has access to the very same station can do the same simultaneously with player A. This is what most people are used to in other games with public forges and such in cities. Usually in those games we are talking about seconds or minutes only though, not hours and days. Edit: Parallel processing, as CROW3 calls it.
If the stations are not instanced, player B has to wait the amount of hours or days before they can load in their own materials and start getting them processed.
For Freeholds, I am very much assuming that stations are not instanced. This means that even if there are 8-9 people in the family, they have to wait until the station is done (or halt it prematurely) before they can process any more or different raw materials. In other words, there is a max output capacity per freehold that cannot be exceeded no matter how many players are feeding it materials.
We obviously don't know how hard it will be to keep a processing station working full time. Maybe 8-9 people are required to feed and tend to all the stations available on a freehold. Maybe even more. Organized groups that all agree on what to process and can properly share the profits will excel, if that's the case.
But what about processing stations in nodes?
If we assume that it's true we can do processing up to Journeyman level in a node, that has to mean processing stations exist in nodes. If those stations aren't instanced, players will have to camp the stations to even hope to get a free slot. That seems really bad. So I guess they have to be instanced per player? Possibly limited to citizens only, and possibly even limited in numbers below that.
If novice and journeyman tier processing stations have unlimited slots in nodes, I guess those materials are going to be fairly plentiful. We know lower tier goods are needed to make higher tier goods, so that would make sense to some degree.
A balancing factor could be that the in-node workstations require the player to be present at all times while the goods are processing, but I hope that isn't the case. That just makes for boring gameplay that players will try to bot or script.
Tying it into scarcity
If my assumption is correct and freehold processing stations aren't instanced per player, then giving more people access to the freehold (like guild mates) doesn't really help the main issue of gating content behind them because they will be too scarce and sought after.
It takes days for the late game stuff, and everyone have to agree on what to make. Unless Intrepid decides to make it really hard to feed the processing stations, and really double down on requiring a group effort to feed them with any sense of efficiency, the rich and powerful will want to get as many freeholds they can. If a single person with a lot of play time can reasonably feed the processing stations, it will exacerbate the problem.
Guild Halls
If guild halls have processing stations, then if they are not instanced they are really no better than a freehold, and won't help alleviate the gating of content since we can only have around 45 GHs on a server. If they are instanced, and guild members can do parallel grand-master processing per member, then they are overpowered.
I think we need an article or dev stream on Guild Halls before we speculate too much though.
My first question to you all is, do you think processing stations should be "instanced" per player, so to speak, or not?
For example, if a processing station is instanced, player A can enter the fuel and the materials and simply wait the amount of hours or days before the goods are done. Meanwhile, player B that has access to the very same station can do the same simultaneously with player A. This is what most people are used to in other games with public forges and such in cities. Usually in those games we are talking about seconds or minutes only though, not hours and days. Edit: Parallel processing, as CROW3 calls it.
If the stations are not instanced, player B has to wait the amount of hours or days before they can load in their own materials and start getting them processed.
For Freeholds, I am very much assuming that stations are not instanced. This means that even if there are 8-9 people in the family, they have to wait until the station is done (or halt it prematurely) before they can process any more or different raw materials. In other words, there is a max output capacity per freehold that cannot be exceeded no matter how many players are feeding it materials.
We obviously don't know how hard it will be to keep a processing station working full time. Maybe 8-9 people are required to feed and tend to all the stations available on a freehold. Maybe even more. Organized groups that all agree on what to process and can properly share the profits will excel, if that's the case.
But what about processing stations in nodes?
If we assume that it's true we can do processing up to Journeyman level in a node, that has to mean processing stations exist in nodes. If those stations aren't instanced, players will have to camp the stations to even hope to get a free slot. That seems really bad. So I guess they have to be instanced per player? Possibly limited to citizens only, and possibly even limited in numbers below that.
If novice and journeyman tier processing stations have unlimited slots in nodes, I guess those materials are going to be fairly plentiful. We know lower tier goods are needed to make higher tier goods, so that would make sense to some degree.
A balancing factor could be that the in-node workstations require the player to be present at all times while the goods are processing, but I hope that isn't the case. That just makes for boring gameplay that players will try to bot or script.
Tying it into scarcity
If my assumption is correct and freehold processing stations aren't instanced per player, then giving more people access to the freehold (like guild mates) doesn't really help the main issue of gating content behind them because they will be too scarce and sought after.
That's going to be very important as you get to very late game processed materials that are required. Because some of these things might have days to process within a station, but if you have spent the time and done the work to advance that processing station you could cut that down considerably, perhaps even greater than 50 percent; and that's going to have a significant impact on your ability to either control markets or to create goods
It takes days for the late game stuff, and everyone have to agree on what to make. Unless Intrepid decides to make it really hard to feed the processing stations, and really double down on requiring a group effort to feed them with any sense of efficiency, the rich and powerful will want to get as many freeholds they can. If a single person with a lot of play time can reasonably feed the processing stations, it will exacerbate the problem.
Guild Halls
If guild halls have processing stations, then if they are not instanced they are really no better than a freehold, and won't help alleviate the gating of content since we can only have around 45 GHs on a server. If they are instanced, and guild members can do parallel grand-master processing per member, then they are overpowered.
I think we need an article or dev stream on Guild Halls before we speculate too much though.
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Comments
I also agree completely with Crow3 in that if people are having to line up around the block just to smelt some iron there will be riots.
I would like some confirmation on this for freeholds from Intrepid, because I am 99% sure that we won't be parallel processing there. I hope to be surprised though.
If Intrepid want to have some scarcity on mats - just make them rarer in the game.
It's definitely an interesting QA question. Not one I would have thought of. I'm kinda curious how they'll handle it. Right now there's not enough info for me to really comment on it or begin to guess how it will be. I'd imagine they already have an answer though.
This is a part of my reasoning as to why smaller guilds simply won't have access to freeholds.
It isn't a case of guilds just needing one station for processing each material - they will need many. Since we are talking all gear from level 30ish up needing material that needs time in these stations to process, guilds are going to want multiple freeholds for most processing work.
Add that to the freeholds they will want for the land management system, and all of a sudden larger guilds will never have enough.
But I suspect, as has happened to me at least a million other times in life - wait what how's that going to work.....ohhhhhh I see.
However, if we don't let Intrepid know what our misgivings are with the currently described systems, we are likely to be waiting as long for that information as we have been waiting for Nodes 3.
From watching the livestream that Steven jumped in to a few days ago or so, I am not at all convinced that he thinks the system is in a working state. I think he can see what he wants, and he can see what players want, but it appears he knows that what he has so far isn't either of those.
Yeah instanced here means just that. If you've played any other MMO with crafting, usually there's an area with crafting benches. They are instanced in the sense that you don't see what the other players are making, nor have to wait for them to finish before you can start your craft.
For freehold processing I am guessing you have to wait for the other player's run to complete.
IMO your forum account should be deleted, unfortunately for both of us our opinions are irrelevant.
Making that statement for a system that you don't understand, you haven't seen implementation, the impact on economy, and haven't tested is just ridiculous.
As for the OP, I'll recommend looking at this 2018 interview where Steven basically describes processing as it is now
at 26:50 but also during other moments Steven says Freeholds are meant to be a throttle for the economy - it requires land, preparation and it is NOT meant to be accessible to everyone
Intrepid had Rosco back in 2017, a PHD in Economics with vast experience in other MMORPGs very early on and the economy implications were always well though out
I think it's safe to say it is very naive to be trying to theory craft and ask for changes in something we as players have no idea the reasons behind and haven't actually seen implemented with all the intricacies and details.
As Steven himself said recently: The time for community feedback on these systems will be alpha 2 when we can see the systems working
for now, all we should be worried about is visuals/direction
All I see is bots dominating rare node spawns 24/7 .
Even if intrepid is active on bot hunting, it won't get them all, not to mention real persons "botting" for RMT.
When you gate them behind freeholds, that require a lot of PLAYER effort, you reduce the bot impact.
IT isn't like new world where they spawn in the same exact spot every time.
Hi again.
Preventing normal players from enjoying the game will just make it so that only the bots are left in the game. Just look at LA to see the proof.
Sad truths.
- Serial use = rabid mass revolt
- Parallel use = player expectations
There is another possibility. Perhaps you can load your materials and queue your job at the node processing station, with an approximate time of completion. You can then go about your business and come back when it's done.
This could create a choice for a player. You can queue your job in your node with an expected completion time of 8 hours, or you can travel to the next node over and have your job done in 2 hours. Maybe they could also implement a "rush" option, where you pay more to prioritize your job.
Idk. Too much to speculate tbh.
One thing is for sure, no way I would be a processor if I didn't expect to have a freehold, and thus, didn't expect to achieve master level processing.
Yeah perhaps. I couldn't really find a perfect term to use for it.
I expect it to work a bit like in V-Rising on freeholds though, if you've played that in multiplayer?
True, if you can just load in the materials at any time and get time it's finished depending on how busy the stations in the node are, I can see that work too. There would have to be a limit per player though. Possibly even per account.
I understand the way players will use the system as it has currently been described to the community.
You claim to be in a large guild, it is in your best interests if the freehold system remains the way it has been described, because it is such large guilds that will have a stranglehold on freeholds. You stand to gain ingame (and probably real) money if the system stays how it is now.
If it is Steven's intention that this be the case, then that's just how it is. On the other hand, if that is not his intention, everything you have to say on the matter of freeholds should be ignored by everyone here.
Unreasonable, without Noaani the forum would become way more boring.
Aren't we all sinners?
And if they won't? I think they should, i don't see a reason for access time-gated scarcity for this system in this regard.
Aren't we all sinners?