Learning curve in a game. How is it fun and how is it not

I've been playing D4 and PoE for a bit and I was wondering the concept of a learning curve in a game. I know there are people reading guides to understand how to min/max their character, but this concept is what I would consider as a learning curve. Same thing applies to CSGO/CSS and Valorant which all is in a FPS category and games like Dota, LoL which is a MOBA types.
While CSGO/CSS is easier because there is rapid progression once you have the capabilities of dragging your mouse to the enemy player. This is what I would consider as a category of easy to get in, but harder to master the problem with this type of game is it will hook you in, but is dependent on the Match making and community size. But then we also have games like LoL that I would still consider as easy to get in and harder to master. The difference here is that LoL has multiple steps, such as what champion are getting nerfed at X season, which role are you playing, how to get better at this champion and what item to combine. The comparison I would put here is a staircase and how many steps does these games have to learn and experience what would be considered as end game in MMO's. CSGO for me is just a 3 step process initial step ( pretty big ), Aim/Utility ( medium step ), Understanding psychology of your enemy ( routing / reaction to scenarios ) (small step) and LoL is significantly more smaller steps than CSGO such as what champion to play needing to read watch Meta champion for X season and relearn and how each skill and what scenarios are good to use, rotation in 1vX. For me personally I find CSGO as fun because it's essentially plug and play, but it becomes boring once I know or stop believing that I can be better. As for LoL even though I got decent at it, but it does get stale and is time consuming and it's more like you need to learn/read the mechanics more compared to CSGO. In this case I would consider that LoL has a much higher step of learning curve needed to get into the game at a higher/end game level

So why is learning curve fun ? *Personal Opinion
It provides a goal for a player to learn that this item is bad/ playing like this is bad. Players can have a step over another by learning that this exist and I can utilize it against another team/enemy.
Why is it bad? *
The goal that needs to be achieves can sometimes be impossible to reach or just feels mindless. Sometimes the reading / finding is tedious.

I also have a question for yall. Is common sense a part of the learning curve ? What I mean here is like lets say I see an ice monster using a ice spell is not effective against it, but fire is.

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Comments

Dygz

I think I am not as interested in learning curve as I am The Hero's Journey.

Shabooey

Interesting topic. For me I think a learning curve is fun because it helps you feel like you're progressing and getting better at the game.

I'm not a massive fan of games that hold your hand all the way and it becomes so easy it's boring. On the other hand, it's highly annoying when games (I'm looking at you Star Citizen) that literally drop you in and go yep good luck then.
I'm more than happy to have a steep learning curve in games once you know the basics, think it provides a good challenge for me personally. That could be in the form of many different things in many variety of games.

I think the common sense element comes from experience playing and probably thinking about it, it's like a learning curve isn't it. Like you say, initially you go against the Ice Monster with X and realise ohhhh Y is much better in this scenario. I really like those moments you have in games, Elden ring was like that for me.

Lash

I think it is important to teach players early about core concepts like player death. This means you have to kill a player early on in the game and this will turn people away from your game.

PoE is a good example. The devs do not just tell you "you have to put points into life" but they will repeatedly kill your character if you don't. People view this is too harsh of a lesson to learn because it can ruin characters but it is a natural part of the learning curve. If someone is not interested in figuring out how to not die they simply will not enjoy PoE. It is a free game so people mass quitting is expected when they find out it is not for them. They very much use the common sense approach to an extreme. It is difficult for them because most games do not let players create their own defenses and simply give players enough defensive stats to live automatically.

I feel like the learning curve should actually be a curve. Too much hand holding creates a scenario where the player's first experience with failure happens way too late into the game and it will cause animosity towards the devs or others players because the player was essentially tricked into playing a game they do not enjoy. This happens in retail wow. A player's first experience with failure is most likely a 5 man dungeon because all the content while leveling is too easy to realistically die. This means a new player will associate failure with grouping up and it leads to the single player mmo mindset.

An mmo has the advantage over those other games you listed simply because the leveling process creates a natural learning curve as a baseline then they can adjust it based on how players are interacting with it. If they see players are quitting around the same level they can tweak those levels to make them a more smooth learning experience.

For ashes specifically it is going to be a very complex game. Just throwing people into the deep end will turn players away. They are in for a challenge to teach players in a strategic way so they enjoy learning the game instead of just giving up at the first sign of friction. They need to start teaching early and often.

Ludullu

I'd personally prefer a somewhat fast introduction of your core abilities (i.e. all abilities by lvl25), with optional explanations and in-game guides/hints for mechanics. And then you'd just be thrown off the deep end when it comes to augmenting all that stuff.

You'll know what your char can do, but you'll need to figure out how exactly you yourself want to do it.

Ayeveegaming1

I am pretty sure there will be zealous people that will be creating all kinds of guides. Youtube/twitch videos that will explain how to play, min/max and all kinds of stuff. There is always the Wiki that is very up to date and informative. If a person needs help in learning there will be tons of info out there. Even at launch the streamers with access to alpha/beta will have videos ready to go to watch.

CROW3

Since we all learn differently, I'd prefer to have the option to turn off any tutorial and just enter the world. I don't like hand-holding in any way, as I enjoy figuring the game out. We already know there will be a glut of rich content about tips and '10 things you MUST know' and 'the BEST build.' So, let's keep the inside of the game as exploratory as possible.

RocketFarmer

There will probably be guides once Alpha 2 kicks off, if not earlier.

KingDDD

The basic learning curve needs to be addressed during the leveling process: menus, mounts, world movement, etc. Once that's complete send players in whatever direction they want to go.

Leveling should give you a taste for what's in the game and if you want more go to it.

tautau

I like a complex game where it is possible to figure out things that most people do not know.

I also suspect that some (or many) of the early 'guides' will be awful. There may even be some that are intentionally wrong to slow down other players.

Raven016

Koopasu wrote: »

So why is learning curve fun ? *Personal Opinion
It provides a goal for a player to learn that this item is bad/ playing like this is bad.

Learning that non-consensual PvP is fun is a steep curve for some players.
When the game tries to transform you into an NPC like a zombie but you resist and stay human.
The fear of zombies is a strong one. Leads to anger hate and suffering...

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