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Market Manipulation

ILLPeonUILLPeonU Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
How will Intrepid handle Market Manipulation to defense against what other games have failed in, by allowing programs and scripts to run the market for them, Example: Archeage, where certain programs could see the exact time it was ending as opposed to in 1 minute. Or Auto bidding on your select preferences.

Such programs can really have a huge outcome on a economy,

What would YOU like to see and HOW do you suggest that they design it, would love so see the responses,
Thanks for reading.
"Don't Pee in the Wind"
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Comments

  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I'd like them to just design a reasonable economy where the benefit to doing this is so small that no one cares enough or when they do it, it isn't particularly impactful.

    They already don't have a global auction house at many stages of the game, in an open world MMORPG, they don't really need to do anything other than apply some basic economic design structure.

    Player stalls and player-to-player trading circumvent most of this.

    I actually don't know what Market you're envisioning where it matters? In-node housing, maybe?
    Sorry, my native language is Erlang.
    
  • PherPhurPherPhur Member
    edited July 2023
    Those are usually either ran by AHK scripts or addons that utilize the games available API. Well Intrepid aren't giving any API access so no addons, but the AHK scripts might be an issue.

    Somewhat anyways, they seem pretty adamant on really going after bots, and their are many methods to reveal ones, but looking at OSRS is probably the best example we can use here.

    No developers have put in near the amount of time and effort into stopping botting as Jagex. As it stands right now botting is near impossible for the vast majority of their players. Simple botting can slide through the cracks like clicking in the same spot repeatedly, but anything more complex than that will get flagged.

    The only way to bot more than just a short while is to buy personalized $150+ custom made scripts that were trained on human data from people off obscure forums and discord, but even then it's more of an "when" rather than an "if" you get banned.

    So given that Intrepid can possibly do as great of a job then botting won't be much of an issue.
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  • ILLPeonUILLPeonU Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Azherae wrote: »
    I'd like them to just design a reasonable economy where the benefit to doing this is so small that no one cares enough or when they do it, it isn't particularly impactful.

    They already don't have a global auction house at many stages of the game, in an open world MMORPG, they don't really need to do anything other than apply some basic economic design structure.

    Player stalls and player-to-player trading circumvent most of this.

    I actually don't know what Market you're envisioning where it matters? In-node housing, maybe?

    Talking more about the auction house, especially in Economic nodes
    "Don't Pee in the Wind"
    vuqhxsvth53f.png
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Santanico wrote: »
    Azherae wrote: »
    I'd like them to just design a reasonable economy where the benefit to doing this is so small that no one cares enough or when they do it, it isn't particularly impactful.

    They already don't have a global auction house at many stages of the game, in an open world MMORPG, they don't really need to do anything other than apply some basic economic design structure.

    Player stalls and player-to-player trading circumvent most of this.

    I actually don't know what Market you're envisioning where it matters? In-node housing, maybe?

    Talking more about the auction house, especially in Economic nodes

    Then in my opinion this is a relatively lower impact problem that comes up because of the way economies are designed in certain other games. The gameplay goals of those games are that gatherers always have the option to gather, so there's a lot of product available if everyone chooses to do it.

    This means there's enough throughput in the market for people to manipulate it. Ashes could design the other way, and it would probably be in line with their design philosophy to do that. The Auction House's purpose would end up being different than it is in many other games where serious market manipulation is a thing.

    I consider this to be the more likely design because the game would be more robust that way, due to the long period at the beginning when no Economic Nodes are at that level yet, you'd need a model that worked without them, but doesn't break when they appear.
    Sorry, my native language is Erlang.
    
  • It was talked about during their UI showcase. It was asked if the API would be available to players to make custom UI addons. Steven said something along the lines of, we might allow addons on the future but not at this time, no.
    The Steven giveth and the Steven taketh away
  • DolyemDolyem Member
    It mostly comes down to managing duping and gold farmers/RMTs. I'd suggest figuring out a way to mint items. You'd then potentially be able to have a system that tracks an items individual ID, allowing you to see any duplicates. The ID can be generated upon receiving the Item, tracking when and from what it was acquired.
    And maybe also track trades and guild bank transactions, as to hold scams accountable. Gold tracking would be much harder, but a ledger of transactions of gold spent and received per character could be handy.

    I don't know how viable this idea is as far as system requirements and what not. I'm just spitballing here. Also maybe having the item generation be registered on a block chain, so it's not able to be altered
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  • Well, what CCP did on EVE was adding cooldowns, cooldowns for clicking, cooldowns for download the full market data (5 minutes), cooldowns for updating your market order prices, etc, everything has cooldowns!

    Cooldowns everywhere!
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
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